1ncarnadine Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The Space Wolves dropped the Quietude Space Station moon into the ice shield. Pretty sure the Space Wolves void combat handbook is straight up just: Step 1: crash thing into other thing Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit AD-B had Blackmane crash a ship into another ship in that recent novella, then Lord Gunn does it in Wolf King. It keeps happening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 What are you going to say when FW manages to find a way to make the Wolves more brutal? I'll probably rant about it... They completely screwed up the Ultramarines. They can do the same to the Space Wolves. Alan Bligh did a great job reconciling the classic Alpha Legion (strict martial discipline and pride) with the new BL version (secretive super spys). By now the 30K Space Wolves have been horribly bastardised by the BL guys (well, by Dan Abnett in particular), so I am curious what FW is going to do with them. But FW already had described the World Eaters as more savage, brutal and dreaded than the Space Wolves. Are tehy going to go back on that? On the other hand, FW had previously described the Ultramarines as having one of the largest fleets, but then changed that in HH5. The world eaters chopped people up into bits and were really good at it. The Wolves did things like crash a moon into a planet, which to date, no other legion has done. Coincidentally, the HH1 dexcribes just such a dichotomy: "Of all the Space Marine Legions of the Great Crusade, none were so savage and dreaded. For while others such as the Night Lords could justly claim to have brought worlds into compliance by fear alone, and others such as the White Scars and the Space Wolves could descend without warning and leave a world burning in their wake, for the World Eaters to be assigned to a campaign meant only one thing for the enemy - extermination. Extermination not by virus bomb or atomic firestorm, but by chainaxe and bolt shell - worlds drowned one-by-one in the blood of their inhabitants." - HH1, Betrayal, p. 84 The notion being that dropping some macro weapon on someone is not as violent as going down there and killing the same amount of people manually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 What are you going to say when FW manages to find a way to make the Wolves more brutal? I dont have the wolves info, no one does. The world eaters chopped people up into bits and were really good at it. The Wolves did things like crash a moon into a planet, which to date, no other legion has done. You've got the Division Kill guy talking about how scary they are, and iirc he mentions the WE but I may be wrong. My point is to relax. It doesn't matter until the Wolves stuff comes out. It's pointless to declare it one way or the other. Actually, didn't Alpha Legion also drop a planet onto another planet? I believe it was in Extermination. Also, FW needs to update WE to better portray them on the table. They should definitely be much better in CC than Wolves or anyone else. It's their thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The HH1 Legion USRs conveyed only very minor bonuses. Soome of the Legions on later books got much more potent USRs. World Eaters units get furious charge once they destroyed an enemy unit in combat. In comparison, Night Lords units get +1 to wound in close combat if they outnumber the enemy models. Raven Guard jump infantry and terminator squads just get furious charge from the get go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 another limited edition i am so far behind with the storylines now i think im gonna give up. not paying the ridiculous sums of money for all these limited editions. cheerio Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedwaKe Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Also, FW needs to update WE to better portray them on the table. They already have hatred and rage (if using the rite of war and the blood madness) and get furious charge when they win a close combat.. can't get much more than that. They should definitely be much better in CC than Wolves or anyone else. It's their thing. Sure its their thing, but its the thing of many other legion too. Being crazy and swinging an axe like there is no tomorrow does not make you a better fighter in my book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Tell Khârn and Delvarus that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Tell Khârn and Delvarus that. Objection your honor. Delvarus uses a meteor hammer and Khârn uses a machete. But they're very skilled at what they do. Ask any weapons martial arts guys (thinking European sword play here) and they'll tell you that an undisciplined axe swinger will get easily killed by a trained weapons skilled user. Refer to Betrayer when the Ultras are holding quite well with their siege walls against the XIIth legion until they go ham (read: plot device). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Guys...nowhere does it say that the SW are more brutal than the WE...why can't both legions be shockingly brutal, with the WE being a few hairs more brutal because of their Nails? Even if the SW were only the 2nd or 3rd most brutal legion (after the WE and NL) out of 18 legions, non-Astartes Imperial forces would still be reluctant to work with them when their are plenty of "reasonable" legions as alternatives Also, keep in mind the possibility that perhaps the Emperor intended the SW to be the most brutal, i.e. he did not foresee the advent of the Nails or the depravation of the NL or Curz's insanity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Maybe the biggest revelation in all this was... That Russ, who is a highly honor-bound individual, swears a vow to ally with the Lutherite Angels led by Althalos. That. Is. Huge. Now, one of two things will follow since Wraight has dropped a potential plot twist a-bomb on us. One, nothing happens, which is understandable if unimaginative. Two, the much more delicious option that makes complete sense, in my opinion. Russ and the VI Legion answer the call when Caliban is attacked. Imagine the Wolf King arriving on scene only to realize that his bloodsworn I Legion allies are being attacked by the Lion and his loyalists. This could be the origin of the REAL animosity between the Lion and Russ we always hear about. No more of the dramatized stuff, I mean literal actual hate between the two. The VI and I Legions actually join battle, causing two Legions that should have certainly been at the Terra to be absent. Is this not the perfect set up? The stage is set, let's see where the pieces fall... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Tell Khârn and Delvarus that. Objection your honor. Delvarus uses a meteor hammer and Khârn uses a machete. But they're very skilled at what they do. Ask any weapons martial arts guys (thinking European sword play here) and they'll tell you that an undisciplined axe swinger will get easily killed by a trained weapons skilled user. Refer to Betrayer when the Ultras are holding quite well with their siege walls against the XIIth legion until they go ham (read: plot device). Overruled. It doesn't matter what weapon they use, they're proficient warriors, viewed as such amongst the other Legions. I believe Kargath is supposed to be a bit of a B.A. as well. They're frothing madmen, but they're still skilled with a blade (albeit not at the level of say, Emperor's Children). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedwaKe Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Joke aside, I was not saying the World Eaters are not skilled warriors because.. they are. But every legion had badass close combat element too. And while I agree that the world eaters should get the best bonuses in close combat, the Wolves and the Blood Angels should not be far behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The Space Wolves dropped the Quietude Space Station moon into the ice shield. That scene was, without a doubt, one of my favorite scene's in the Heresy novels. It's tied with Khârn's utter beatdown of Erebus in the pit. The Space Wolves dropped the Quietude Space Station moon into the ice shield. Pretty sure the Space Wolves void combat handbook is straight up just: Step 1: crash thing into other thing Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit AD-B had Blackmane crash a ship into another ship in that recent novella, then Lord Gunn does it in Wolf King. It keeps happening. If it works for the Federation... WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Just finished reading this, and it was good. One of Wraight's better works, though some of my normal misgivings to his style still showed up. It was kind of amusing how Russ was dismissive of the knowledge of how the Lion's second in command has been treated, because the galaxy will never remember him anyway. He is not wrong. Future Dark Angels make dang sure of that. In regards to their armor, the short story Call of the Lion introduces green armor on Calibanite legionaries almost as soon as there are Calibanite legionaries. The one in the example is a Lion-aligned one too, the Terran noting the differences being Astelan, a known future Fallen. As for their loyalties in this short, it is to Luther, the Emperor and the Lion. It's just that you can tell that they will side with Luther the instant their own loyalties are tested. Luther has direct authority over and bonding with them, while they have never met the Lion nor know where the Lion is or has been. But they are only really shown as dismissive or disrespectful of the Lion, not necessarily anti-Lion I had mentioned in another thread that I would have liked to actually see Lord Gunn in action, get a glimpse of what it means to be the First Captain of the VI Legion. Should have been more careful what I ask for. Felt depressingly contrived, from his personality to his death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Read it last night - here's my summary 1. Bad parts : -overpriced cut off part from scars book, mad price for 0 story content -100 pages....REALLY ? - there is no Alpha legion perspective who are AWESOME, there are only 3 or 4 characters 2. Good - depressed Leman Russ - love how his captains talk to him like they are equal - lord Gunn - final battle - Wolves in a humble portrayal but still kick arse Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Joke aside, I was not saying the World Eaters are not skilled warriors because.. they are. But every legion had badass close combat element too. And while I agree that the world eaters should get the best bonuses in close combat, the Wolves and the Blood Angels should not be far behind. Thing is, they are not...+ they are focused on the objective and use other brutal methods rather than only melee...Hey there is cunning too... guys u are forgeting IW, much overlooked Just finished reading this, and it was good. One of Wraight's better works, though some of my normal misgivings to his style still showed up. It was kind of amusing how Russ was dismissive of the knowledge of how the Lion's second in command has been treated, because the galaxy will never remember him anyway. He is not wrong. Future Dark Angels make dang sure of that. In regards to their armor, the short story Call of the Lion introduces green armor on Calibanite legionaries almost as soon as there are Calibanite legionaries. The one in the example is a Lion-aligned one too, the Terran noting the differences being Astelan, a known future Fallen. As for their loyalties in this short, it is to Luther, the Emperor and the Lion. It's just that you can tell that they will side with Luther the instant their own loyalties are tested. Luther has direct authority over and bonding with them, while they have never met the Lion nor know where the Lion is or has been. But they are only really shown as dismissive or disrespectful of the Lion, not necessarily anti-Lion I had mentioned in another thread that I would have liked to actually see Lord Gunn in action, get a glimpse of what it means to be the First Captain of the VI Legion. Should have been more careful what I ask for. Felt depressingly contrived, from his personality to his death. Good point mate, those dudes who helped the space wolves will probably be like 50 : 50 in civil war after... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The First Legion have delicious parts here.As I would have hoped from Chris, but I did not put much expectations there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 After this I'm torn on whether my Dark Angels will be Lion Loyalist, Lutherite Imperial Loyalists or Lutherite Traitors lol, wonder if there's going to be any more variations on the Dark Angels loyalties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 After this I'm torn on whether my Dark Angels will be Lion Loyalist, Lutherite Imperial Loyalists or Lutherite Traitors lol, wonder if there's going to be any more variations on Dark Angel Loyalists. Lutherite Imperial Loyalists sounds good to me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4187959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 When the First Legion is more mysterious and complex than Alpha Legion.When the LE is a secret love story for Dark Angels. Now you have better reason to make Angels of Vigilance or Star Phantoms or more... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4188048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 When the First Legion is more mysterious and complex than Alpha Legion. When the LE is a secret love story for Dark Angels. Now you have better reason to make Angels of Vigilance or Star Phantoms or more... Yeah that's why I wanted to start up my project log again - they're kind of primogenitures to the Astral Claws/Star Phantoms. Cast offs from the 1st legion that aren't heard from for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4188140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 So the void claws will be lutherite imperials? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4188223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 So the void claws will be lutherite imperials? You bet your green socks they will. PM me bro ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4188230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 So what is the scoop on the whole rune priests, Russ, and the Edict? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4188417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 So what is the scoop on the whole rune priests, Russ, and the Edict?Edict is no psykers, Rune Priests are psykers, and the Wolves are knowingly going against the Edict because they believe the Rune Priests to be a necessary evil. This was actually covered in Howl of the Hearthworld very nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4188477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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