Astra Militarum: Tactica Russ

[WarriorFish]

When you think of the Guard at war you think of two things first - the Guardsmen themselves and the ubiquitous Leman Russ Battle Tank. So much so that when people talk of Leman or Russ chances are they're not talking about the Primarch! How best to get use from this mighty tank though? With so many variations we are spoilt for choice and as a die hard tread head who better to get the ball rolling on a Russ tactica?

Author's Note
As with the Tactica Generalis this isn't going to be a comprehensive list but rather a summary of the Russ tanks and their good uses. New recruits will hopefully find this useful for getting to grips with all the choices we have and for the veteran tankers out there a springboard to add your own tactical wisdom!

Index Imperialis

1. The Leman Russ - The basics
2. Sponsons - To sponson or not; that is the question
3. Leman Russ Battle Tank - The old stalwart
4. Leman Russ Exterminator - Autocannon prime
5. Leman Russ Vanquisher - Reach out and touch someone
6. Leman Russ Eradicator - No cover for you
7. Leman Russ Demolisher - These 24" are mine
8. Leman Russ Punisher - Fury made manifest
9. Leman Russ Executioner - Not using that 2+ save are you?
10. Tank Commanders and Pask - Russ+
11. Russes and You - A primer on basic use
12. Closing - Omnissiah be praised

Edited February 28, 2016 by WarriorFish

[WarriorFish]

The Leman Russ

Guardsmen rely on numbers for much of their resilience, but this changes with the Russ. With AV14 front armour and AV13 side armour they've got the heavy armour we need to weather incoming storms and keep on fighting. This sort of durability and fire power comes at a price though as most of the variants will cost you to field. As with all vehicles they're vulnerable in assault and thanks to their high armour values this will be one of the preferred methods for opponents to deal with them alongside the ever present risk of melta weaponry. Even the heavier Russ with AV11 rear armour is still vulnerable in assault.

 

Russes are Heavy vehicles, which gives them the ability to trundle 6" and fire all weapons without penalty but crucially this doesn't overrule Ordnance weaponry forcing other weapons the snap fire. This is part of what you pay for so always keep it in mind when selecting Russes and upgrades and don't forget that this impedes their maximum movement distance so they won't be travelling anywhere fast. All Russes come stock with smoke launchers and a searchlight which is nice, as well as featuring as part of a squadron of 1-3 tanks - a great option to have.

 

With the plethora of options we have there is literally a Russ for almost every occasion and army list build! These will all be given more detail below.

[WarriorFish]

Sponsons

Taking sponsons or not is the eternal question for Russes. There are several weapons to choose from too which only complicates it - add in the Russ types themselves and you have a lot of combinations (don't forget the hull weapon too...). There is no best combination as it all depends on what your list requires as ever but by default I consider no sponsons to be a good option. If you're in doubt it makes sense not to spend points on an upgrade you're unsure on and all Russes are capable enough with their standard load out especially as the cost soon mounts up across tanks.

 

Hull Weaponry

With the option of a heavy bolter, heavy flamer and lascannon it can be a nice little upgrade for a bit of versatility. The bolter by default is ok, the extra shots can do some good but I'm fond of the heavy flamer. Free to upgrade to it gives the Russ some punch at close range should enemy infantry close in. This is especially useful should the main gun be at risk of scattering onto friendlies (or itself!) and has saved more than one Russ from certain doom. Last but certainly not least is the lascannon - a pretty cheap upgrade for the punch so I consider it worth thinking about even if it doesn't immediately mesh with the Russ's cannon's role.

 

Sponson Roles

Should sponsons match the role of the main gun, or provide some alternate capability? The answer is of course dependant on what your list needs. Like the specialist vs generalist comparison in the Tactica Generalis you should decide how you're going to approach your tanks and stick to it. Generally speaking it is better to stick to specialisation I believe, as a Russ with sponsons can be expensive so better to let other units handle other targets and concentrate on being good at something rather. Especially with the variety of Russ tanks offering such a broad scope in focus.

 

So if you've decided to take sponsons, which ones do you take? The first to do is imagine the price being halved, as you get two weapons for the upgrade cost. Doesn't quite seem so bad now right? You can build a Russ for most situations or deficiencies in your list, the question is if this is a good use of points or not. As ever that is a decision for you alone.

 

Heavy Flamers

Nice and cheap, but with the lack of range you might struggle to use them. An opponent would have to be pretty dumb or desperate to get too close to this, but that is also of use as a deterrent. A good backup weapon system though (remember the Heavy rule), especially if you expect the enemy to end up closing in frontally. As such they're quite list dependant but it only takes one good shooting phase for them to more than earn their points back...

 

Heavy Bolters

The default choice and for good reason - they don't break the bank and when isn't a heavy bolter useful? Of course they're primarily anti-infantry weapons but they can threaten light armour too. They maybe be more useful for their range on the 24" range Russes, but if you're thinking of sponsons on a Russ that's intended to deal with infantry then you can't go wrong with these.

 

Multi-meltas

A good upgrade for the price, but niche. A bit like the heavy flamers they might end up more of a deterrent than anything else, but they will threaten the big nasties. If you can get them in range they should do a good job, or provide an excellent core to a defensive location. Though there's the temptation to stick them on the other 24" range Russes consider the range implications of this.

 

Plasma Cannons

Expensive to add and situational they need the right Russ with the right role. With Gets Hot you have the chance of inflicting some damage but this can be worth it. I'd only consider these for short ranged Russes to provide some range and hitting power, and of course the Executioner is an excellent choice for obvious reasons.

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Battle Tank

Remember when this was all we had along with Demolishers? Back then it'd be battle cannon, lascannon and heavy bolters which is why I call this configuration the "classic". The standard Russ is about middling cost for a Russ and as you might expect generally the all rounder. It doesn't do anything fantastically but it can turn it's turret to most foes and do well. That said, it's still a large blast of S8 AP3 ordnance which is nothing to sneeze that - Marines have been sweating when a battle cannon turns for years after all!

 

As an ordnance Russ you should give sponsons an extra consideration, but snap firing some heavy bolters isn't too bad for plinking away some extra wounds. I'll admit that I run the classic out of stubborn regard for my old tanks as much as anything else but it makes for a reliable and versatile tank. That snap firing lascannon hitting can clinch things for a fair price and of course there's always the option to ignore the battle cannon and unleash hell from the hull and sponson weaponry. Plus having fall back weaponry if you lose the main gun is always good to have.

 

So when in doubt I take the battle tank, but as a generalist unit it doesn't operate too well alone so I'd always want to take more than one in the same configuration. They will provide a solid backbone of armour to your list and be able to shore up deficiencies you may be having. If your Russ count is low I'd consider taking a specialist Russ to focus on a certain task.

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Exterminator

This is a bit of an odd tank in my opinion. Though I've come to regard it more highly recently it still feels a bit strange as it's a Russ chassis mounting a glorified autocannon - something you can get in spades elsewhere. Don't discount it just yet though as it's still a Russ and is a cheaper one at that. The Exterminator will de-mechanise your opponent well and put lots of wounds on all but heavy infantry, the question is if your list needs this.

 

The Exterminator makes for a good buddy for Pask Punisher though, as well as a good mount for him (rending). The lack of a special or strong main gun does give this variant are harder sell which is reflected in its relative lack of use. I usually see it in a commander's squad or otherwise enhanced in BS where it can put the number of shots to good use which is a pretty good use for this tank, albeit perhaps the only effective one.

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Vanquisher

The Vanquisher looks excellent, but sadly is not excellent on the table top. BS3 for a single shot weapon is a bit risky as it's not the cheapest of tanks. I'd only feel comfortable with some form of buff to their performance - psychic powers and running in Pask's squadron as a Warlord for the re-roll. A good choice for a tank commander (or better - Pask) though, as well as being a fitting beast for him to command from. This also helps him stay further from the battle lines too, aiding his survivability.

 

If you take one make sure to upgrade for a lascannon so it has better odds at doing some damage. Sponsons aren't great as this tank wants to focus on hard targets and keep far away from them, so maybe heavy flamers to give it some alternate use or should enemy infantry close in?

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Eradicator

This is one of my favourite tanks. It was performing excellently for me last codex but the significant drop in points has made it a fantastic tank. The ability to turn anything short of Marines in cover to vapour is extremely useful for flushing out objectives and entrenched elements. Doesn't need any sponsons to get the job done either, keeping costs down further though adding heavy bolters will certainly do no harm as they match well.

 

It isn't great against armour though, so it isn't a tank for all lists. It also competes with a couple of Wyverns in role. Though the Wyverns are great the Eradicator benefits from having a Russ chassis as well as greater reliability. Having the choice is a good thing, and it's also a lot quicker to resolve an Eradicator's shooting attack!

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Demolisher

If you're having problems with something then you can almost always rely on the Demolisher to fix them for you. The dustbin goes "boom" and your problems go away, messily. What's not to love? Well, it's not particularly cheap and has a short range but as the saying goes: "these 24" are mine". Excellent for dealing with deathstars and the like, who often are coming for you anyway so your range doesn't matter the only things it can struggle with are things it can't kill in one hit. Fortunately these things are relatively rare.

 

I always give it a hull heavy flamer, helps protect it against assault or should an enemy be to close to risk the cannon. Again the Demolisher is potent enough not to need sponsons but they can be good for offsetting the tank's weaknesses and providing backups/alternative shooting - if you're willing to pay for them. Multimeltas keep the danger factor high, but plasma cannons maintain the AP2 with less change of scatter back and grant valuable extra range - both good second choices if the main gun is knocked out or not ideal for the situation. All tanks benefit from being in pairs, but none quite as much as the Demolisher as two will form a core to your list that can be exploited in countless ways.

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Punisher

I still remember the cries of the falling sky when the Punisher came out. Would that they were true, for the Punisher is at the mercy of the dice gods even more so than usual. Spitting out so many AP- bullets at BS3 can be rather hit or miss and against the other weaponry the Guard can muster somewhat lacklustre. On a tank commander at BS4 it is much more useful as those 20 shots start looking like more hits, but where it truly shines is with Pask.

 

Pask in a Punisher is murder, his re-rolls on BS4 with his Warlord trait coupled with Rending means that he will drub almost anything he targets. Brutal, give him some heavy bolters and he will evaporate entire squads a turn. Even vehicles aren't safe as he plinks off all their hull points under a hail of Rending S5. He even has fair odds of bringing down lighter flyers.

 

So when you see a Punisher, it's almost certainly a ride for Pask. That pretty much tells you all you need to know...

[WarriorFish]

Leman Russ Executioner

Expensive, and now that vehicles aren't immune to Gets Hot a less appealing option than previously but don't let this discourage you. It's still an excellent tank for dealing with heavy infantry and monstrous creature types. It's more focused than the Demolisher and with more shots can better deal with things too tough for the Demolisher to outright kill. Another tank that is capable enough to not need sponsons, but if you do take sponsons most people take plasma cannons. Expensive and more risky yes and also a large fire magnet but if you're having trouble with hard targets this will solve them for you!

 

It's also capable of turning a hand to light vehicle hunting if required so it has some flexibility, but given the drawbacks this is a tank to draft in if you're having specific problems it can solve.

[WarriorFish]

Tank Commanders and Pask

This was a great move by GW, for a fair price you can send a Russ squadron to the HQ slot and add a BS4 commander to a tank. He even gets his own orders too, though they're not as good as the infantry ones, and can only be issued to his own unit. This is a great way to get some more tanks in your FoC especially if you're not planning on making use of a CCS or won't really benefit much from them (such as a grenadier company).

 

The tank commander must have at least one other Russ in his squadron and I'd advise not to take a third as it makes the unit difficult to move and thus more vulnerable to assaults as well as even more expensive and an huge fire magnet. You have a few options with your approach - take a Russ to support the commander's action, take one to provide some flexibility or just try and keep it cheap! With split fire as an order all options are viable, but generally I think it's better to get a supporting tank in case the order fails or if you really need something dead.

 

Needless to say whatever you pick the squad will be quite an investment so he'll need to work within your list. If nothing else it's a nice way to get tanks in and fill a mandatory FOC slot!

 

Orders

The orders are situational with one exception, but they're better than nothing. All orders are executed at Ld9 to the commander's squadron:

 

Full Throttle!

This is the only way to get the Heavy Russ moving, but if they're moving they're not shooting... Useful if you're desperate to get away from something or move into a new position but you're probably better off blasting away with your guns.

 

Gunners, Kill on Sight!

This will be the order you give almost all the time. It lets your commander shoot a different target to his squadron which is very useful. Note that the squadron must shoot at a different target immediately afterwards and this can't be the unit that has just bailed out of a transport your commander popped.

 

Strike and Shroud!

Shoot then pop smoke (if you have it). A nice order to give for the first time you need smoke as it gives you the best of both in your shooting phase. Obviously useless once your smoke has been used so it can't see much use!

 

Pask

He's expensive yes, but if you have the points well worth it. For starters his Russ gets to re-roll failing penetration rolls (and glances), that's very nice but the icing on the cake is the special rule he brings depending on the Russ. This is mostly re-rolls to his, added to the previous then you've got a tank chock full of re-rolls which is as good as you can imagine. Arguably this is much more useful on direct fire weapons, as a pie plate scattering one less inch is nice enough but not exactly game changing.

 

The Exterminator and Punisher get Rending instead. Coupled with BS4 that's very nice indeed and you can see how Pask in a Punisher can scythe down all before him under a hail of bullets. The Executioner gets a special large blast single shot fire option which can be useful should you want to try and cover a larger area with plasma. If he's the Warlord has the Old Grudges trait which further enhances his accuracy so it's worth considering having him head your force.

 

 

Overall tank commanders are an excellent if expensive addition to our codex, hopefully one to be expanded upon in the future...

[WarriorFish]

Russes and You

The Leman Russ is an iconic tank of the Guard. So good a Primarch named himself after it no less! Probably half the reason so many treadheads join the Guard too... yet for all that it's not an auto include, as much as it may feel like one sometimes. They're not particularly cheap as far as units go and are just as weak to close combat as any other armour so alone and unsupported they don't tend to last long even the more armoured Demolisher and friends with AV11 rear armour fall quickly.

 

This doesn't mean armoured companies are a lost hope, you've just got to accommodate your inevitable losses and maximise your fire power - win or lose big! As mentioned in the Tactica Generalis there are armour types; Russes are heavy armour through and through. With their strong armour most opponents will want to close in for melta or assault to effectively deal with them which makes protecting them a bit easier. As a bonus it also means that you can "saturate" with fewer tanks.

 

The rule of two is of course in full effect, but again due to the imposing nature and cost you won't need more of a type/role unless you have a specific plan. My approach is to build my list and fit the variant in afterwards depending on what holes need filling and as I often say when in doubt the standard MBT is always a good addition.

 

Ordnance

Two Russes have this rule on their main guns, and it causes endless debate on the merits of sponsons. Whatever you do keep it in mind so you plan accordingly and don't forget that it's 2D6 for armour penetration, picking the highest. Nice to have, and can make the two variants quite effective at tank hunting.

 

Target Types

Taken all together Russes are mostly suited to shooting heavy infantry with the AP3+, with only two hunting 4+ saves. Let this inform your list building as well as target priorities - while your MBT might blast those cultists to pieces nicely it'd much prefer to strike harder targets!

 

Support Elements

Though not directly the purpose of this tactica tanks do not operate alone. A tank without an escort is vulnerable to assault, so that means cheap screening units go very well with your Russ tanks. Humble Guardsmen with flamers are light on the points and can keep most enemies away for a turn or two, alternatively Sentinels can do the same. I find a key aspect of escorts aside from their lower cost is the ability to charge as the units that want to destroy your valuable armour tend to not want to be stuck in combat with a cheap screen

[WarriorFish]

Closing

With such versatility the Russ is a true stalwart of a Guard list and as such there are many ways to run them. It's less a question of if the Russ can do something and more if you can't find a better way to do it elsewhere... Whether you're a dyed in the wool treadhead or not the appeal is lasting and why wouldn't it be? Strong armour and big guns are something a list can be forged around, Guardsmen can hold the line and protect the tanks letting them do the real killing.

 

Let's not forget that our "normal" Russ has a S8 AP3 large blast, and while there is much to make Marines sweat these days throwing some pie plates around never gets old. The Russ is something to be feared; look after your tanks and they will look after you - and help you fill your jars of tears

 

What are your favourite tanks and builds? Got a Forge World variant you love? Share your thoughts and wisdom below

[Truesight]

A few Russ builds I use, I did not invent them:

 

"Tournament Standard"- Pask Punisher, hull lascannon, multimelta sponsons, Squadmate Executioner, hull heavy bolter, plasma cannon sponsons.

 

"I wish I had Demolisher variants"- Pask Vanquisher, hull lascannon, Eradicator, hull heavy bolter, plasma cannon sponsons.

 

"I don't care if it dies"- Eradicator, hull heavy bolter

 

"Screw Rhinos"- Exterminator, hull lascannon, multimelta sponsons

 

"Low point game generalist"- Eradicator, Lascannon, sponson multimeltas

 

"Big Game Hunter"-  ABG Company Command Vanquisher, hull lascannon, co-axial heavy stubber, beast hunter shells

 

"I don't know what to bring"- Battle tank, hull heavy bolter

[Lukash_]

I'll add a few to that:

 

Screw light infantry in particular: Exterminator with three heavy bolters

 

In my dreams, I'm a Hellhound: ABG Commissar Tank with Infernus Shells

[HenricusTyranicus]

I am personally a big fan of the Screw light infantry in particular build.

Edited February 29, 2016 by HenricusTyranicus

[Phubar]

I like Exterminator with Lascannon and Battle cannon with HBolter.

 

With Pask i like Vanquisher with Lascannon or Battlecannon or Punisher wiyh Lascannon.

 

Im not a big fan of sponsons.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I like Demolishers for my primary tanks and Vanquishers for my command tanks. But then I take all my tanks from the ABG list, which means I get beasthunter vanquishers.

[march10k]

Leman Russ Vanquisher

The Vanquisher looks excellent, but sadly is not excellent on the table top. BS3 for a single shot weapon is a bit risky as it's not the cheapest of tanks. I'd only feel comfortable with some form of buff to their performance - psychic powers and running in Pask's squadron as a Warlord for the re-roll. A good choice for a tank commander (or better - Pask) though, as well as being a fitting beast for him to command from. This also helps him stay further from the battle lines too, aiding his survivability.

 

If you take one make sure to upgrade for a lascannon so it has better odds at doing some damage. Sponsons aren't great as this tank wants to focus on hard targets and keep far away from them, so maybe heavy flamers to give it some alternate use or should enemy infantry close in?

I'm intrigued by the BS4 bubble that you get with Mont'ka...3-4 BS4 vanquishers with hull lascannons?  Yes, please!

 

Sponsons

Taking sponsons or not is the eternal question for Russes. There are several weapons to choose from too which only complicates it - add in the Russ types themselves and you have a lot of combinations (don't forget the hull weapon too...). There is no best combination as it all depends on what your list requires as ever but by default I consider no sponsons to be a good option. If you're in doubt it makes sense not to spend points on an upgrade you're unsure on and all Russes are capable enough with their standard load out especially as the cost soon mounts up across tanks.

 

Hull Weaponry

With the option of a heavy bolter, heavy flamer and lascannon it can be a nice little upgrade for a bit of versatility. The bolter by default is ok, the extra shots can do some good but I'm fond of the heavy flamer. Free to upgrade to it gives the Russ some punch at close range should enemy infantry close in. This is especially useful should the main gun be at risk of scattering onto friendlies (or itself!) and has saved more than one Russ from certain doom. Last but certainly not least is the lascannon - a pretty cheap upgrade for the punch so I consider it worth thinking about even if it doesn't immediately mesh with the Russ's cannon's role.

 

Sponson Roles

Should sponsons match the role of the main gun, or provide some alternate capability? The answer is of course dependant on what your list needs. Like the specialist vs generalist comparison in the Tactica Generalis you should decide how you're going to approach your tanks and stick to it. Generally speaking it is better to stick to specialisation I believe, as a Russ with sponsons can be expensive so better to let other units handle other targets and concentrate on being good at something rather. Especially with the variety of Russ tanks offering such a broad scope in focus.

 

So if you've decided to take sponsons, which ones do you take? The first to do is imagine the price being halved, as you get two weapons for the upgrade cost. Doesn't quite seem so bad now right? You can build a Russ for most situations or deficiencies in your list, the question is if this is a good use of points or not. As ever that is a decision for you alone.

 

Heavy Flamers

Nice and cheap, but with the lack of range you might struggle to use them. An opponent would have to be pretty dumb or desperate to get too close to this, but that is also of use as a deterrent. A good backup weapon system though (remember the Heavy rule), especially if you expect the enemy to end up closing in frontally. As such they're quite list dependant but it only takes one good shooting phase for them to more than earn their points back...

 

Heavy Bolters

The default choice and for good reason - they don't break the bank and when isn't a heavy bolter useful? Of course they're primarily anti-infantry weapons but they can threaten light armour too. They maybe be more useful for their range on the 24" range Russes, but if you're thinking of sponsons on a Russ that's intended to deal with infantry then you can't go wrong with these.

 

Multi-meltas

A good upgrade for the price, but niche. A bit like the heavy flamers they might end up more of a deterrent than anything else, but they will threaten the big nasties. If you can get them in range they should do a good job, or provide an excellent core to a defensive location. Though there's the temptation to stick them on the other 24" range Russes consider the range implications of this.

 

Plasma Cannons

Expensive to add and situational they need the right Russ with the right role. With Gets Hot you have the chance of inflicting some damage but this can be worth it. I'd only consider these for short ranged Russes to provide some range and hitting power, and of course the Executioner is an excellent choice for obvious reasons.

 

Good rundown, but you should add a reference to a non-mathhammer consideration:  Sponsons make the tank ridiculously wide, it's ok if you're running 1-3, but in a vehicle-heavy list, widening tanks by a full 2" is a non-starter.

 

Leman Russ Eradicator

This is one of my favourite tanks. It was performing excellently for me last codex but the significant drop in points has made it a fantastic tank. The ability to turn anything short of Marines in cover to vapour is extremely useful for flushing out objectives and entrenched elements. Doesn't need any sponsons to get the job done either, keeping costs down further though adding heavy bolters will certainly do no harm as they match well.

 

It isn't great against armour though, so it isn't a tank for all lists. It also competes with a couple of Wyverns in role. Though the Wyverns are great the Eradicator benefits from having a Russ chassis as well as greater reliability. Having the choice is a good thing, and it's also a lot quicker to resolve an Eradicator's shooting attack!

 

I'm no fan of anything but a hull heavy flamer on the eradicator...the heavy flamer is free, and it keeps the theme of "screw your cover save!"  Eradicator is cheap and effective...I'd hate to ruin that with $$$ sponson upgrades.

 

 

I like Demolishers for my primary tanks and Vanquishers for my command tanks. But then I take all my tanks from the ABG list, which means I get beasthunter vanquishers.

 

Even without ABG, I totally agree.  Pasquisher with vanq wingman for me, and then two solo demolishers.  Pair of griffons in the third heavy slot, or a solo eradicator.

Edited March 1, 2016 by march10k

[Lord Lee]

What is ABG?

 

Lord Lee.

[Truesight]

What is ABG?

 

Lord Lee.

The Armoured Battle Group, an Imperial Guard army list focusing on tanks.  D4chan rundown

 

It's a little outdated, but there is some gems still in there, as well as the option to field an entire army of Leman Russ.

[CaptainHelion]

Eradicators have been my favourite Russ since I got into the game. Plus, they frighten Tau and Eldar infantry in a particularly delicious flavour that's surprisingly hard to find these days.

[WarriorFish]

Good point on the displacement march, something to consider if you're running squadrons too. I usually run my Russes without sponsons as they're more than capable enough and it helps me squeeze more into my lists - boys before toys ;)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

If I took anything but the Ordnance tanks and the vanquisher, I'd consider sponsons. The Eradicator sort of begs for heavy flamer sponsons, but realistically just giving it the hull flamer would be sufficient, Since with tanks you really don't want to get too close.

 

To my mind the Vanquisher is better off without sponsons, since the only ones that would make sense for a tank destroyer would be the MM sponsons, but then you'd need to get into 12" range to make it effective. No thanks, I prefer to keep my tanks outside of melee range. I do agree that the BS4 bubble offered by the Emperor's fist is a good buff, but that's 5 tanks minimum, and I'm not wanting to go that tank heavy. I just want tanks to support my mechanized infantry, which is why I take from the ABG list.

[march10k]

If I took anything but the Ordnance tanks and the vanquisher, I'd consider sponsons. The Eradicator sort of begs for heavy flamer sponsons, but realistically just giving it the hull flamer would be sufficient, Since with tanks you really don't want to get too close.

 

To my mind the Vanquisher is better off without sponsons, since the only ones that would make sense for a tank destroyer would be the MM sponsons, but then you'd need to get into 12" range to make it effective. No thanks, I prefer to keep my tanks outside of melee range. I do agree that the BS4 bubble offered by the Emperor's fist is a good buff, but that's 5 tanks minimum, and I'm not wanting to go that tank heavy. I just want tanks to support my mechanized infantry, which is why I take from the ABG list.

Totally agree with all of that...but I am a bit of a treadhead...I normally run five tanks now (pask squadron, two demolishers, and an eradicator), so the number of tanks in the Mont'ka formation works for me, but not the type that makes sense.  I would want at least three tanks to be lascannon vanquishers if running that formation, and still have my demolishers and eradicator for close in work...Ideally, three vanquishers and two exterminators in the BS4 bubble, making for eight tanks, including the three short ranged ones...that's pretty tank heavy, and I don't own any exterminators, but it'd be pretty powerful and only use about 1050 points, plenty left for four well-equipped mechanized veteran squads and a mechanized CCS with all the candy.