Carcharodons novel by Robbie McNiven

[RobMac]

Or the 145th?

Have to wait until Amazon gets a download file for it.

Amazon has the kindle edition up.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

If charadons are RG i think they are trying to demonstrate that astartees are not bound to their stereotypes.

 

Raven guard legacy (and bad writing) makes them covert and unable to adopt other styles of warfare. Why should a 7ft plus warrior with a temper and passion for close combat be outdone by another legionary or indeed chapter. If charadons are blood thirsty and have a hard one for agressive tactics I welcome it.

[RobMac]

I am curious though, if the origins of the chapter are even known to the members at this point.

They are indeed all aware, they're not like the Unforgiven where only the higher-ups know the whole truth. They're told what they are from day one, it's a big part of their doctrine. 

[caladancid]

Its a Christmas Miracle!!!

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

I am curious though, if the origins of the chapter are even known to the members at this point.

They are indeed all aware, they're not like the Unforgiven where only the higher-ups know the whole truth. They're told what they are from day one, it's a big part of their doctrine.

Continuing on with that line of discussion, minor spoilers (only just began reading):

 

The Chapter maintains a relic bearing a combat honor dating to the original, pre-Crusade Unification of Terra, so they clearly have connections to a very lengthy history. They also have some Dreadnoughts interred with Wandering Ancestors, which seems to me to be those originally exiled.

 

But, there is plenty of room for doubt. They were exiled by the Forgotten One, which certainly implies a loss of history. Plus, "it is said" that the Chief Librarian is only three generations removed from the Wandering Ancestors. If they were the originally exiled, then the act of exile must have taken place maybe 2-3 thousand years ago at the furthest. Or they have a very different meaning of generations than we do, or those who say that don't have a very good grasp of time. Or the Carcharadons have an average life span more than double the upper limits of the Blood Angels. Unlikely, considering it's also pointed out that the induction process is error-prone thanks to the isolated conditions the Chapter often finds itself.

[caladancid]

There is at least some discussion in HH novels that marines could theoretically live indefinitely if not for battle. That has been backed off of both in TBA series (where something has happened that now ppl don't think marines live more than a couple centuries) and in MoM where Custodes are said to be practically immortal (which would mean to me that Astartes are not since Custodes are so much better genetically speaking).

[Conn Eremon]

There is at least some discussion in HH novels that marines could theoretically live indefinitely if not for battle. That has been backed off of both in TBA series (where something has happened that now ppl don't think marines live more than a couple centuries) and in MoM where Custodes are said to be practically immortal (which would mean to me that Astartes are not since Custodes are so much better genetically speaking).

The HH source you reference is a Legionary musing to himself if the Emperor made them functionally immortal, or if they had simply not yet been around long enough to die of old age yet. I think, not unlike a certain Ultramarines rumor from the The First Heretic, people might have taken that more literally than intended.

 

Chaplain Cassius, of the current Ultramarines Chapter, is almost twice the age of the oldest Legionary by the time of the Heresy.

 

At the most, the original Legionaries, closer to the source of the science that made them and not burdened with rampant Imperial decay, might have been longer-lived. As in an original Imperial Fist reaching Blood Angel levels of long-lived.

[caladancid]

You may be right, but I think it was more that one novel that mentioned the age unknown. I will check later. Right now I'm trying to figure out WHERE ROBMAC HAS BEEN FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS BECAUSE OMG THE GRIMDARK IS STRONG IN THIS ONE.

[helterskelter]

Just to temporarily aside, Nick Kyme had a 10k year old salamander fused to a chair in his downed ship.

So physically these guys could be as being away from the imperium and the way they seem to conduct business the rate of attrition could be lower because no one expects the Spanish inquisition from above the galatic plain, and being able to live longer due to fighting on their own terms more than the imperiums.

You see a lot of chaos calling the modern imperial counterparts as thin bloods, so if they are living longer, through less attrition, they have more time to make a space marine how they're supposed to, but time passed since the good old days plus resources means more accidents.

[Jim Shady]

Bugger.

 

heltersklter beat me to it!

Edited December 26, 2016 by Jim Shady

[Vazzy]

Well I just finished it. Well Done Robbie, the novel was everything I'd hoped it'd be and the ending allows for more books to published should it sell well, and I'm sure it will. The story was well done, and well developed, though I will admit the end seemed somewhat rushed. I think 20 or so more pages would have given you enough room to write just a bit more and wrap up some loose ends. All in all, I'd give it a solid 7.75-8/10. I enjoyed the novel, and the history you've slowly started to reveal to us. I hope to see more from you in the future...or 10,000 years in the past... 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Just to temporarily aside, Nick Kyme had a 10k year old salamander fused to a chair in his downed ship.

So physically these guys could be as being away from the imperium and the way they seem to conduct business the rate of attrition could be lower because no one expects the Spanish inquisition from above the galatic plain, and being able to live longer due to fighting on their own terms more than the imperiums.

You see a lot of chaos calling the modern imperial counterparts as thin bloods, so if they are living longer, through less attrition, they have more time to make a space marine how they're supposed to, but time passed since the good old days plus resources means more accidents.

 

Just to temporarily aside, Nick Kyme had a 10k year old salamander fused to a chair in his downed ship.

So physically these guys could be as being away from the imperium and the way they seem to conduct business the rate of attrition could be lower because no one expects the Spanish inquisition from above the galatic plain, and being able to live longer due to fighting on their own terms more than the imperiums.

You see a lot of chaos calling the modern imperial counterparts as thin bloods, so if they are living longer, through less attrition, they have more time to make a space marine how they're supposed to, but time passed since the good old days plus resources means more accidents.

 

Wasnt there some Warp based shenanigans keeping him alive at that point?

[Kelborn]

As far as I can remember it, the planet was a "normal" one besides being garrisoned by Iron Warriors, frequently visited by Orks and having a extremely rare ore necessary to produce sonic weapons... ;)

 

But I believe that the Salamander guy was just ancient. Think that he wasn't even able to move at all besides minimal movements. Don't even know how he'd survived without food but hey, it's 40K. No logic needed. ^^

 

Okilidokily, I got Red Tithe on my tablet alongside Path of Heaven to enjoy and The Reaping Time + The Last Son of Prospero for rereading. Should be enough for now (besides numerous unread books in my rack which as well are on my to-do-list).

 

Seems like you've nailed it, Rob. Excited to read it by myself. ;)

[caladancid]

I have to say I think if I am rating this, it would be solidly in the upper 8s, possibly even a 9.  I didn't read Rob's space wolves novel (they just don't interest me much), so I don't know how good he usually is, but he nailed the setting here in my opinion. I can easily say that this book makes me think there is a very bright future ahead for the new guard of authors.

 

As an aside for how good the novel is from a pure reading or writing perspective, it makes me wish GW made Carcharodon shoulder pads so bad just so I could make a new army.  So that probably matters a lot to GW. Different from how 'good' the novel is, but still important I think.

[RobMac]

Argh, I'm so close to breaking into the "bestseller" list on UK Amazon kindle (not that top 100 Amazon rankings are "real" bestsellers, but still). Really glad the folks who've read it so far are enjoying it though, my goodness, you all read quick!

 

Re. the discontinued Forge World pauldrons, none of this is official, and it's all hearsay of course, but... apparently a few folks at Forge World are fond of the Sharks, and if they continue to be successful who knows...

[Landrick]

Testing my first use of spoilers [/spoilerend]

 

dang it... can i get a refresher please?

Edited December 27, 2016 by Landrick

[Scribe]

{spoiler} This is spoiler {/spoiler}

 

Just replace { with [ (and } with ])

[arafel]

a very pleasant reading

 

and now the questions and remarks

 

 

 

the White Maw

an heresy era ship with ursus claws, so did the Carcharodons capture it ?
were the ursus claws used by other legions than the World Eaters ?
or were some WE included from the begining in the Carcharodons
the White Maw may be a WE ship name in fact

the names  

All scouts are known by a word followed by two numbers when they become full brothers they acquire a void name

Aleph-sixteen-nine Bail Sharr  
Zeta-one-nine
Aleph-seven-seven
Aleph-one-sixteen
Beta-one-three-Uthulu the techmarine full name

could the first word be an indication of the geneseed origin ?
or the name of the first marine the geneseed was extracted after his death, in a sort of Ancestor worship ?

the gene seed

Te Kahurangi is from NL geneseed according to the demon
Bail Sharr knows his genetic inheritance and shows a very WE type of fighting like the Dusk Raiders were known for

so they may be more than NL, RG geneseed among the Carcharodons
the one tested by the Inquisition during the Badab War may have been chosen because he was of RG stock to avoid unnecessary questions

the Night Lords

a great description of "thin blood " late 40K Night Lords with almost no ties with the original VIIIth as Kahu guessed



did the Carcharodons harvested the NL geneseed ?
i don't remember reading it and if they don't why as they already have some NL geneseed if the Demon was right

did they take the NL weapons and armors ?
they are far more recent than theirs but they are in need of these so probably
 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by arafel

[Jim Shady]

a very pleasant reading

 

and now the questions and remarks

 

 

 

the White Maw

 

an heresy era ship with ursus claws, so did the Carcharodons capture it ?

were the ursus claws used by other legions than the World Eaters ?

or were some WE included from the begining in the Carcharodons

the White Maw may be a WE ship name in fact

 

the names  

 

All scouts are known by a word followed by two numbers when they become full brothers they acquire a void name

 

Aleph-sixteen-nine Bail Sharr  

Zeta-one-nine

Aleph-seven-seven

Aleph-one-sixteen

Beta-one-three-Uthulu the techmarine full name

 

could the first word be an indication of the geneseed origin ?

or the name of the first marine the geneseed was extracted after his death, in a sort of Ancestor worship ?

 

the gene seed

 

Te Kahurangi is from NL geneseed according to the demon

Bail Sharr knows his genetic inheritance and shows a very WE type of fighting like the Dusk Raiders were known for

 

so they may be more than NL, RG geneseed among the Carcharodons

the one tested by the Inquisition during the Badab War may have been chosen because he was of RG stock to avoid unnecessary questions

 

the Night Lords

 

a great description of "thin blood " late 40K Night Lords with almost no ties with the original VIIIth as Kahu guessed

 

 

 

did the Carcharodons harvested the NL geneseed ?

i don't remember reading it and if they don't why as they already have some NL geneseed if the Demon was right

 

did they take the NL weapons and armors ?

they are far more recent than theirs but they are in need of these so probably

 

 

 

 

Hmmmm.

 

Interesting. So the few theories start kicking around in my head.

 

Exiled Chapter from a single or number of Legions, that were exiled by their Primarch or thought "Screw this, we are off to where no one can bother us and forget this Imperial Truth crap!". Could the geneseed be taken after fighting other Astares forces that were also forced into exile/turned Blackshields? Could said forces have been decimated (From an unknown xenos/Inquisition blah blah) and the remaining Astares decided to form a new warband/group etc? Hell, even the HLoT (Possibly a single Lord) could have uncovered what forces were out on the galactic fringe and decided to bring them in (By threats, "I know where most of your geneseed came from...", shenanigans) and created a Codex Chapter.

[Draakur]

So just to be clear, are there other books I should read prior to this to give me the full RobMac Carcharadon experience?

[HeritorA]

Argh, I'm so close to breaking into the "bestseller" list on UK Amazon kindle (not that top 100 Amazon rankings are "real" bestsellers, but still). Really glad the folks who've read it so far are enjoying it though, my goodness, you all read quick!

 

Re. the discontinued Forge World pauldrons, none of this is official, and it's all hearsay of course, but... apparently a few folks at Forge World are fond of the Sharks, and if they continue to be successful who knows...

 

And so I reviewed it Rob ( - what do I get?

 

All in all - amazing novel mate. Thank you

[RobMac]

A lot of neat and interesting theories from folks already... I'll say no more than that though! 

 

 

Argh, I'm so close to breaking into the "bestseller" list on UK Amazon kindle (not that top 100 Amazon rankings are "real" bestsellers, but still). Really glad the folks who've read it so far are enjoying it though, my goodness, you all read quick!

 

Re. the discontinued Forge World pauldrons, none of this is official, and it's all hearsay of course, but... apparently a few folks at Forge World are fond of the Sharks, and if they continue to be successful who knows...

 

And so I reviewed it Rob ( - what do I get?

 

All in all - amazing novel mate. Thank you

 

We can't let them know about the bribes Heri, or they'll realise it's only 1/5 stars 

Edited December 27, 2016 by RobMac

[Jim Shady]

So just to be clear, are there other books I should read prior to this to give me the full RobMac Carcharadon experience?

 

There's an Advent short Robbie did. It's a good read. I believe it's a lead in to Red Tithe.

[RobMac]

So just to be clear, are there other books I should read prior to this to give me the full RobMac Carcharadon experience?

Red Tithe has a prequel short story, The Reaping Time, which is only available as an ebook on the Black Library site (for now). It's not required reading for Red Tithe but it builds the setting and a couple of the characters. 

[helterskelter]

a very pleasant reading

 

and now the questions and remarks

 

 

 

the White Maw

 

an heresy era ship with ursus claws, so did the Carcharodons capture it ?

were the ursus claws used by other legions than the World Eaters ?

or were some WE included from the begining in the Carcharodons

the White Maw may be a WE ship name in fact

 

the names

 

All scouts are known by a word followed by two numbers when they become full brothers they acquire a void name

 

Aleph-sixteen-nine Bail Sharr

Zeta-one-nine

Aleph-seven-seven

Aleph-one-sixteen

Beta-one-three-Uthulu the techmarine full name

 

could the first word be an indication of the geneseed origin ?

or the name of the first marine the geneseed was extracted after his death, in a sort of Ancestor worship ?

 

the gene seed

 

Te Kahurangi is from NL geneseed according to the demon

Bail Sharr knows his genetic inheritance and shows a very WE type of fighting like the Dusk Raiders were known for

 

so they may be more than NL, RG geneseed among the Carcharodons

the one tested by the Inquisition during the Badab War may have been chosen because he was of RG stock to avoid unnecessary questions

 

the Night Lords

 

a great description of "thin blood " late 40K Night Lords with almost no ties with the original VIIIth as Kahu guessed

 

 

 

did the Carcharodons harvested the NL geneseed ?

i don't remember reading it and if they don't why as they already have some NL geneseed if the Demon was right

 

did they take the NL weapons and armors ?

they are far more recent than theirs but they are in need of these so probably

 

 

 

Only WE had Ursus claws so that has been acquired.

Did you mean warhounds because dusk raiders are DG?

It would be quite humorous for an alpha legionnaire to have become a master of recruits and thus the naming conventions. They do get everywhere.

No one believes what demons say, everyone says as much. However seeing as how it looks like the origins are an amalgamation of multi legions, it is entirely likely he does have NL genestock.

It's very odd for an NL warband to have zero ties to the old legion bar name very odd.

But I'll discuss that more when I grab the book in Jan, can't do full ebooks, don't mind shorts but the novels I need my chunk of dead tree