Carcharodons novel by Robbie McNiven

[arafel]

my bad

yes War Hounds

[HeritorA]

 

a very pleasant reading

 

and now the questions and remarks

 

 

 

the White Maw

 

an heresy era ship with ursus claws, so did the Carcharodons capture it ?

were the ursus claws used by other legions than the World Eaters ?

or were some WE included from the begining in the Carcharodons

the White Maw may be a WE ship name in fact

 

the names

 

All scouts are known by a word followed by two numbers when they become full brothers they acquire a void name

 

Aleph-sixteen-nine Bail Sharr

Zeta-one-nine

Aleph-seven-seven

Aleph-one-sixteen

Beta-one-three-Uthulu the techmarine full name

 

could the first word be an indication of the geneseed origin ?

or the name of the first marine the geneseed was extracted after his death, in a sort of Ancestor worship ?

 

the gene seed

 

Te Kahurangi is from NL geneseed according to the demon

Bail Sharr knows his genetic inheritance and shows a very WE type of fighting like the Dusk Raiders were known for

 

so they may be more than NL, RG geneseed among the Carcharodons

the one tested by the Inquisition during the Badab War may have been chosen because he was of RG stock to avoid unnecessary questions

 

the Night Lords

 

a great description of "thin blood " late 40K Night Lords with almost no ties with the original VIIIth as Kahu guessed

 

 

 

did the Carcharodons harvested the NL geneseed ?

i don't remember reading it and if they don't why as they already have some NL geneseed if the Demon was right

 

did they take the NL weapons and armors ?

they are far more recent than theirs but they are in need of these so probably

 

 

 

Only WE had Ursus claws so that has been acquired.

Did you mean warhounds because dusk raiders are DG?

It would be quite humorous for an alpha legionnaire to have become a master of recruits and thus the naming conventions. They do get everywhere.

No one believes what demons say, everyone says as much. However seeing as how it looks like the origins are an amalgamation of multi legions, it is entirely likely he does have NL genestock.

It's very odd for an NL warband to have zero ties to the old legion bar name very odd.

But I'll discuss that more when I grab the book in Jan, can't do full ebooks, don't mind shorts but the novels I need my chunk of dead tree

 

Ursus claws and red bretheren (butchers), Blindness (rage unstoppable) - definitely WE Legion. Darkness, dark empty eyes, pale skin, ambush/counterambush tactics - Raven Guard. Terror and Red Reaping - from Night Lords.

So in truth - I now believe that Carcharodons are  a conglomerate of black shields  warbands from 3 different legions.

That's why technics, armor, stratagems, geneseed mashup

A lot of neat and interesting theories from folks already... I'll say no more than that though! 

 

 

Argh, I'm so close to breaking into the "bestseller" list on UK Amazon kindle (not that top 100 Amazon rankings are "real" bestsellers, but still). Really glad the folks who've read it so far are enjoying it though, my goodness, you all read quick!

 

Re. the discontinued Forge World pauldrons, none of this is official, and it's all hearsay of course, but... apparently a few folks at Forge World are fond of the Sharks, and if they continue to be successful who knows...

 

And so I reviewed it Rob ( - what do I get?

 

All in all - amazing novel mate. Thank you

 

We can't let them know about the bribes Heri, or they'll realise it's only 1/5 stars 

Haha - never. It is good - they would be untruthful to themselves

[Kelborn]

Currently in chapter 3 and damn! I'm enjoying it!

Loved the scene where Kordis tries to meditate.

And the thin blooded NL are of my taste until now.

Quite something different than the old veterans trying to destroy the Imperium theme.

 

Though the Carcharodons are most likely an mixture of three Legions, it's still possible that there are no WE among them.

 

During the HH, the RG had some berserkers themselves, suffering from the Ash-Blind and forming the very first Moritats. As the Terran ones were known to be more brutal than Corax would want them to be, it's likelythat they might have more of them.

 

Concerning the Ursus claws. Until now, we only know of the White Maw carrying them, correct?

Could be a boarded ship. If you're operating deep within the void, cut off from supplies, you'll take everything you'll get.

And, to be honest, the claws are a damn effective way of boarding an enemy ship.

Think that they could just have adapted to their new situation, no mercy, no remorse. It's Hopsons choice.

 

But still...it's most likely a mixture of three instead of just one or two different band of brothers. ;)

Edited December 27, 2016 by Kelborn

[helterskelter]

The only minor issue with the 3 legions/multi legion theory is the eyes. Unless helmeted brothers are described as doing a Dredd (never removing your helmet on screen, not you stallone!) and then never seeing the eyes, savagery can pass them off.

 

Making me nervous with thin blooded NL I won't lie :p

[Draakur]

 

 

So just to be clear, are there other books I should read prior to this to give me the full RobMac Carcharadon experience?

Red Tithe has a prequel short story, The Reaping Time, which is only available as an ebook on the Black Library site (for now). It's not required reading for Red Tithe but it builds the setting and a couple of the characters.

Awesome - I'll be getting both today then :)

[deathspectersgt7]

Man Come on Jan . For some reason I can't download ebooks from amazon ,B&N , BL . Live in some ort of dead zone. I'am drooling toread this book .

[RobMac]

Proud to say that after 36 hours Red Tithe has hit number 82 on Amazon UK's kindle sci-fi bestsellers chart, and number 30 on the UK's iTunes book chart. They're not major accolades, but it's still neat all the same, and success is down entirely to reader generosity and support... so thank you, one and all! 

[Kelborn]

So you can say

 

Step 1 on getting the permission / commission for a series is done? ;)

[caladancid]

I really don't see the multiple Legions thing. I know Ursus Claws, but that seems a stretch to then assume War Hounds based on that one piece alone.

 

I also am not buying the NL link just because a daemon says someone is related.

[Marshal Rohr]

Proud to say that after 36 hours Red Tithe has hit number 82 on Amazon UK's kindle sci-fi bestsellers chart, and number 30 on the UK's iTunes book chart. They're not major accolades, but it's still neat all the same, and success is down entirely to reader generosity and support... so thank you, one and all!

Congrats Robbie!

[caladancid]

How do eBook sales directly from BL.com count towards bestseller lists? If at all I suppose. Another reason I am excited for BL to come to the kindle store soon in the US.

[HeritorA]

Proud to say that after 36 hours Red Tithe has hit number 82 on Amazon UK's kindle sci-fi bestsellers chart, and number 30 on the UK's iTunes book chart. They're not major accolades, but it's still neat all the same, and success is down entirely to reader generosity and support... so thank you, one and all! 

We are trying ;)

 

So you can say

 

Step 1 on getting the permission / commission for a series is done?

I think Robbie can say 'Yes' :)

[DarkChaplain]

How do eBook sales directly from BL.com count towards bestseller lists? If at all I suppose. Another reason I am excited for BL to come to the kindle store soon in the US.

 

BL.com sales have no effect whatsoever on Amazon bestseller lists and I'm doubtful that they'd be considered for New York Times or the likes, since after the switch to hardback GW-exclusive HH novels, I haven't heard of another HH book hitting NYT's lists anymore.

 

Looks like Red Tithe is actually available on Kindle's store in the US already: https://www.amazon.com/Cacharadons-Red-Tithe-Warhammer-000-ebook/dp/B01N75H90J/

[HeritorA]

 

How do eBook sales directly from BL.com count towards bestseller lists? If at all I suppose. Another reason I am excited for BL to come to the kindle store soon in the US.

 

BL.com sales have no effect whatsoever on Amazon bestseller lists and I'm doubtful that they'd be considered for New York Times or the likes, since after the switch to hardback GW-exclusive HH novels, I haven't heard of another HH book hitting NYT's lists anymore.

 

Looks like Red Tithe is actually available on Kindle's store in the US already: https://www.amazon.com/Cacharadons-Red-Tithe-Warhammer-000-ebook/dp/B01N75H90J/

 

Prepare for the American love :)

[RobMac]

So you can say

 

Step 1 on getting the permission / commission for a series is done?

That wasn't even meant to be a step! I think we're getting close 

 

 

 

How do eBook sales directly from BL.com count towards bestseller lists? If at all I suppose. Another reason I am excited for BL to come to the kindle store soon in the US.

 

BL.com sales have no effect whatsoever on Amazon bestseller lists and I'm doubtful that they'd be considered for New York Times or the likes, since after the switch to hardback GW-exclusive HH novels, I haven't heard of another HH book hitting NYT's lists anymore.

 

Looks like Red Tithe is actually available on Kindle's store in the US already: https://www.amazon.com/Cacharadons-Red-Tithe-Warhammer-000-ebook/dp/B01N75H90J/

 

Yeah, I wasn't expecting to be running for bestsellers status. Amazon is actually relatively "easy" for authors to break onto, there's a whole cottage industry behind manufacturing Amazon bestsellers. The basics involve getting a load of people to buy it all at once, usually at some ungodly hour. I was initially going to try this myself before realising what DarkChaplain points out above - it's now very tricky for Black Library to make bestseller status because the releases are spread out over multiple platforms. So Red Tithe has:

 

Amazon kindle releases (which are in turn spread over regions like UK, US ect).

iTunes releases.

Hardback releases (which are only via the Black Library site or in Games Workshop stores, so wouldn't register on any bestseller lists. Likewise with the ebook if it's downloaded direct from the Black Library website, it "doesn't count" when it comes to calculating bestsellers).

Paperback releases (which are over Amazon and in bookstores like Waterstones, so do count towards bestseller lists, but by then most people have the ebook or the hardback...).

 

All of which is why I'm both impressed and delighted that so many people have supported me. If I'm right about how this all works, the kindle sales themselves are probably only about 1/3 of the overall sales. 

 

Oh, and a special shout-out to all you crazy kids who've bought both the ebook and the hardback, that's what I call superfans.

[Kelborn]

Let us found a fan club and name it Mac'sharks.

 

Chapter VI and I'm still devouring it whenever I got time to read. The Flayer Father is my favorite NL until now in this book. ;)

 

Heavy focus on the NL until now. One can really see that you're loving them. ;)

[deathspectersgt7]

Ordered !!!

[helterskelter]

Let us found a fan club and name it Mac'sharks.

 

Chapter VI and I'm still devouring it whenever I got time to read. The Flayer Father is my favorite NL until now in this book. ;)

 

Heavy focus on the NL until now. One can really see that you're loving them. ;)

Stop it now I still have to wait :p

Still not seeing how this thin blooded malarkey is going to work but that's emboldened me against earlier worries

[Kelborn]

Oh sorry

 

But you'll love him, trust me. ;)

The thin bloods are good as well. Still have to see how they relate to the rest of the legion. If they survive. ^^

[Conn Eremon]

 

Let us found a fan club and name it Mac'sharks.

 

Chapter VI and I'm still devouring it whenever I got time to read. The Flayer Father is my favorite NL until now in this book. ;)

 

Heavy focus on the NL until now. One can really see that you're loving them. ;)

Stop it now I still have to wait :p

Still not seeing how this thin blooded malarkey is going to work but that's emboldened me against earlier worries

It's not really all that strong a thing in the plot, minor spoilers if you want more details.

 

The Warband is not led by a Long War veteran, and he's kinda disdainful of those that are. In a way that one would expect him to by his very nature, not in any unusual way. There is also some discontent within his Warband over this, which might come to play further in (not that far into it).

[Jim Shady]

So you can be a thin blood or a half breed like Honsou. There's no winning with Traitors.......

 

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

 

I am curious though, if the origins of the chapter are even known to the members at this point.

They are indeed all aware, they're not like the Unforgiven where only the higher-ups know the whole truth. They're told what they are from day one, it's a big part of their doctrine.

Continuing on with that line of discussion, minor spoilers (only just began reading):

 

The Chapter maintains a relic bearing a combat honor dating to the original, pre-Crusade Unification of Terra, so they clearly have connections to a very lengthy history. They also have some Dreadnoughts interred with Wandering Ancestors, which seems to me to be those originally exiled.

 

But, there is plenty of room for doubt. They were exiled by the Forgotten One, which certainly implies a loss of history. Plus, "it is said" that the Chief Librarian is only three generations removed from the Wandering Ancestors. If they were the originally exiled, then the act of exile must have taken place maybe 2-3 thousand years ago at the furthest. Or they have a very different meaning of generations than we do, or those who say that don't have a very good grasp of time. Or the Carcharadons have an average life span more than double the upper limits of the Blood Angels. Unlikely, considering it's also pointed out that the induction process is error-prone thanks to the isolated conditions the Chapter often finds itself.

 

The Carcharodons Astra are stated as utilizing cryo-sleep for extended durations of travel while doing whatever it is they do when not fighting beyond the rim of the Galaxy. Given that we've seen special snowflake Marines live quite long indeed (hello, Captain Gravius), not just BA as they have been noted to have longer functional lifespans, and also given that Te Kahurangi is a Librarian, it's not a stretch at all to believe that he's 4-5 thousand years old or in that ballpark.

 

 

Regarding their heritage, to loop back to the first quoted post:

Just more confirmation that it's at least part of the way RG, they venerate a Shade Lord, amongst others, probably Arkhas Fal. Since they have very early relics from Terran Unification, though ... perhaps some of the Legions weren't necessarily unified in their geneseed creation. An idea I've always had bouncing around in my skull revolves around a core genepool taken from the Primarch of said Legion, but a lot of the veterans or otherwise senior personnel being provided from already experienced Legiones Astartes forces/operations groups existing at the time. NL link here plays into that, since to me, while Corax was a bit unhinged, I don't think he would have fully exiled the old Legion simply on the basis of not liking how they fought, as that can be changed. At Istvaan, we saw how he reacted to Curze, too - perhaps that played a part into why the older elements were exiled. Just idle speculation on my part in the end, though.

  Edited December 28, 2016 by Apothecary Vaddon

[caladancid]

Did I just miss exactly where Zartak is located?

[helterskelter]

So you can be a thin blood or a half breed like Honsou. There's no winning with Traitors.......

 

It doesn't matter so much really in that sense, it's just night Lords became heresy trope bad guys for multiple authors and I don't want to see another NL bond villain with associated henchmen "in my humble opinion".

But it seems I need not worry after posts subsequent from that until thin blood comment as other posters have positive impressions.

I just need that chunk of dead tree now :D

Edited December 28, 2016 by helterskelter

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Finished the novel. An awesome job showing two sides just wail on one another and come out worse for the wear in the end. Quite balanced the entire way.