Path of Heaven - Discussion

[grailkeeper]

Really? A Gav Thorpe book worth getting?

[bluntblade]

I skipped this discussion to avoid spoilers. I have had the major death of the book spoiled already elsewhere. Is it worth getting I've lately started skipping books (ever since I paid really, actual money for Damnation of Pythos, euggh), Is Path to Heaven worth getting or is it skippable?

Absolutely get Path of Heaven

[Xisor]

Path of Heaven. One of the finest books of the Heresy. Skip to get to it, if need be.

 

(Though I've really enjoyed all the books this year.)

 

War Without End might be worth reading beforehand - especially Wraight's shorts.

[bluntblade]

Reading Scars beforehand adds a lot of impact

[Xisor]

Reading Scars beforehand adds a lot of impact

Blimey, yes - don't read it if you've not read Scars yet!

[Kasper_Hawser]

Optional: and before Scars, Brotherhood of the Storm to give further background on the Scars novel. Not really necessary but might help one figure out where some of the main characters come from, meaning Yesugei, Illya, Shiban Khan and Torghun Khan. All are fantastic characters. Wright really has a gift for bringing a lot of different characters together in one story and actually make them interesting.

 

The downside though, is that with so many interesting characters, the story loses focus at times, especially on the Khan himself. But definitely you won't be lacking for primarch action and drama. Scars rocks! Even from a Space Wolves perspective.

[Xisor]

It doesn't lose focus, where ever the story is: that's the focus. ;)

 

---

 

Kasper's spot on though - Brotherhood of the Storm isn't vital, but it's very good. Chris is writing is of such a standard that I find the 'not necessary' bits (such as 'Daemonology') still add immense amounts to the story, and clarify a lot of 'what's happening elsewhere'. Not vital, but highly recommended.

[bluntblade]

I haven't read that one yet.

[Phoebus]

Path of Heaven was, in my humble opinion, a very good novel that was just short of being great. It feels, I fear a bit rushed and light. Wraight had me hooked from the start with Eidolon and Cario, but in the end the Emperor's Children contribution feels a bit threadbare and the zinger in the end is underwhelming. Had the Cario and Shiban-Torghun sub-plots gotten more meat, I think Path would have been excellent.

 

Daemonology should have been the first half of Vengeful Spirit, with Molech as the second half and no mention whatsoever of Russ, Loken, the Blooded, that random Perpetual, or the Knights Errant.

 

The events of the story are way too important for a random throwaway short story when it comes to explaining the drastic change of perspective of a primarch.

I agree with your sentiment re: Daemonology, even if I still think Loken, etc., served a purpose and didn't detract from the story itself.

 

 

 

I skipped this discussion to avoid spoilers. I have had the major death of the book spoiled already elsewhere. Is it worth getting I've lately started skipping books (ever since I paid really, actual money for Damnation of Pythos, euggh), Is Path to Heaven worth getting or is it skippable?

pharos

Are you invested in Imperium Secundus? If not, you're really not missing anything. It's a good book, but I can't help but feel that the entire story arc has been both underwhelming and not really contributing to the greater Heresy storyline. I am NOT in the "Get to Terra already!" camp, but I do feel there were better stories that could've been told.

 

path of heaven

Buy this. Trust me.

 

angels of caliban

The Dark Angels are my favorite legion. This book left me disappointed.

 

praetorian of dorn

Buy this. Trust me.

[Sete]

This is easily one of my favourite books.

[b1soul]

Path of Heaven was excellent

 

I would recommend reading Brotherhood of the Storm, Scars, and Path to Heaven back to back

 

I read the former two a long time before PoH and I forgot a few crucial details in the interim

[HeritorA]

Really? A Gav Thorpe book worth getting?

No.

It doesn't lose focus, where ever the story is: that's the focus.

---

Kasper's spot on though - Brotherhood of the Storm isn't vital, but it's very good. Chris is writing is of such a standard that I find the 'not necessary' bits (such as 'Daemonology') still add immense amounts to the story, and clarify a lot of 'what's happening elsewhere'. Not vital, but highly recommended.

Exactly - Chris has become an uber awesome author

[no I'm alpharius]

Brotherhood of the Storm really impressed me - story told in a perfect length, no fat, but loads of detail.

 

 

That's the one with the marathon on the steeplechase course, right, and the kid tries to climb over the Luna Wolf.

 

[b1soul]

I think that is Scars

[mc warhammer]

a little help here- to my mind, the scars' approach to war would make them the perfect trail blazers of the heresy. vastly at the forefront, in the wilds of space pushing the imperium further with frightening fury and speed, but the books seem to make them out to be a sidelined legion with small impact on the crusade. does this not entirely work for others? or is it just me.

[b1soul]

They feel sidelined...not sure whether their contribution to the Crusade is insignificant or small relative to the other legions

 

I doubt they conquer nearly as many worlds as the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines, or Dark Angels

 

They might be more like ... ironically ... the Space Wolves (not a very large legion which has conquered a decent number of worlds...very destructive though)

 

That said, perhaps the WS were effectively trailblazing in their own fashion, they just didn't get substantial recognition for their efforts.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

They also never stopped long enough for the accolades to be heaped on them. They constantly moved, with little or no clear path, from warzone to warzone.

 

Its kinda ironic when you think about it. What makes them so successful is a key factor that gets them overlooked

[Xisor]

Indeed. It's not just 'off into the wild', it's 'off into the wild and rarely look back'. Rogue Traders are trail blazers, collecting rewards and being recognised for their enterprise going where no-one has gone before.

 

The Scars are more... wandering. It's not an aimlessness or excitable adventuring, but a more alien soul (if you will). The archetypal White Scar that the Khan is cultivating is one whose instinct is that there's not only something more interesting, but vastly more important just over the horizon, with the more attractive trappings of civilisation being quite invisible to them.

 

Of course, they're Legion, and a big part of Torghun's raison d'etre is that he (and plenty like him) don't feel all that especially strongly. They like heavy weapons and fortifying things and cooperating closely with other pillars of the Imperium.

 

Which is especially poignant as

their way of war basically becomes preeminent during the Heresy, once all the Scars' usual tricks and preferences become unpicked and predictable by the other legions. There's a degree of terrible sadness there - and a powerful integrity in the writing.

 

Their specialness and wow factor are just not that special or wow when placed in a meatrginder with other legions who also had special and wow. Putting Mortarion and Eidolon in a place where it's not their special skills that 'trap the untrappable', but their demonstrable competence... and having the Scars be at the very end of their last millimetre of tether ... it's something much more coherent and alive than than the more 2d ideas of "these are the Emperor's executioners, so they have to come and execute someone". Instead that sort of thing gets blended up into the background. Still there, but there's a lot more to them too.

 

[Angel_of_Blood]

I would also recommend reading the short story Rebirth as well. The Serpent Beneath also has some bearing on Scars.

 

I'd read, Brotherhood of the Storm, The Serpent Beneath, Rebirth, Scars, Allegiance, Path of Heaven. 

 

All those shorts and novels above link in with each other. 

[Xisor]

I'd put "Daemonology" in there too, Angel. And I'm sure there's a couple of other non-essential but worthwhile shorts in "War Without End" by Chris too. Might as well be completist!

 

(There's also an audio that came out earlier this year too - but I've not listened to it.)

[DarkChaplain]

I'd also throw in Vengeful Spirit for its Mortarion and Angel Exterminatus to highlight why Eidolon is in the position he's in now.

[bluntblade]

I'd say the Scars had place themselves in a position that means they wouldn't have as many compliances. They were scattered trailblazers, without the Army, Titan and Cybernetica elements that many of their fellow Legions used. Because of that, although they undoubtedly racked up many victories, their part was more one of eliminating immediate threats and making openings for others to then come in and conquer

[Xisor]

I'd also throw in Vengeful Spirit for its Mortarion and Angel Exterminatus to highlight why Eidolon is in the position he's in now.

I'd throw them out the window, personally, but I sortof see what you mean.

 

 

For me, there feels such a stark gulf in quality between Chris' HH work and McNeill's last two books that it's almost laughable that they actually relate to one another quite well.

 

Chris' work holds up to inspection well enough that he can skip massive arcs because the payoff is earnt and threaded in so it's only barely missed.

 

By contrast: In VS it feels like massive arcs and payoff are skipped, or perhaps forgotten, or just ignored for no great reason. (Specifically re:Mortarion.)

 

[Praetor of Calth]

I have to agree with Xisor, I've really gone off Graham's book as of late. Angel Exterminatus for example felt really jumbled up and without a general sense of direction. The ending basically amounted too;

 

If we don't this this can't happen! Oh wait it happened anyway. I guess everything's fine and dandy then Cya"

 

On top of that his books make the universe feel really small. He has this obsession with cramming all his characters from every book his ever written into every book. I literally rolled my eyes in Seventh Serpent (Which tbf, bar one line, was pretty decent.) When Alpharius told Sharrowkyn that;

Magnus asked him to keep him alive

 

 

You now have a group of shattered legionaries that are going to have met 4 Primarchs on top of their own in the space of one short galactic civil war. What are the chances?

 

On top of that, it's blatantly obvious to anyone that read the last few Heresy books that Fulgrim will be popping up in the Crimson King which I just don't see the need for.

 

That being said I'm looking forward to his Magnus Primarch novel, purely because it will be harder for him to shove a bunch of random characters in there. So I think we'll something more akin to "A Thousand Sons" in terms of quality.

[b1soul]

I really enjoyed A Thousand Sons

 

 

So when I picked up Outcast Dead and Angel Exterminatus, I was expecting similar quality

 

I was really disappointed...