mc warhammer Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 first time the EC were done right, imo. or, let's say, to my tastes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 Cario was a great character Also, Wraight did a phenomenal job rehabilitating Eidolon Not only has Fabius made Eidolon a roided up, banshee howling combat monster...he's also quite smart and not a complete caricature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I think my issue is that the EC went from loyal to strap on wearing joker caricatures too fast. Even the Word Bearers, after 40 years of chaos worship, only had that level of corruption in small numbers. All the EC described so far have no distance between themselves and a full fledged chaos marine. It's just a personal taste thing, but it makes me sad because I love Wraight :( . It's one of those scenarios where you just don't like a faction enough to stick it out, even if you love the author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I think my issue is that the EC went from loyal to strap on wearing joker caricatures too fast. Even the Word Bearers, after 40 years of chaos worship, only had that level of corruption in small numbers. All the EC described so far have no distance between themselves and a full fledged chaos marine. It's just a personal taste thing, but it makes me sad because I love Wraight :( . It's one of those scenarios where you just don't like a faction enough to stick it out, even if you love the author. I think that's an issue with the series as opposed to the book though (this book is relatively far into the heresy, I think they're in about the right place, we just haven't seen much development in them before this - they just went from Fulgrim to Angel Exterminatus really with nothing in between) but it's fair enough about not liking them, this is the first time I've not felt that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 For reference I skip all the chapters about Dorne and the Iron Islands in Game of Thrones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 The Emperor's Children themselves in PoH make the point that they're not their 40K selves yet, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 For reference I skip all the chapters about Dorne and the Iron Islands in Game of Thrones Those were my favourite parts haha. I really liked Dorne particularly in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Cario was a great character Also, Wraight did a phenomenal job rehabilitating Eidolon Not only has Fabius made Eidolon a roided up, banshee howling combat monster...he's also quite smart and not a complete caricature true. It's good that some authors gave 'monsters' some humanity. Cause cartoonish moustache villains - tis sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think my issue is that the EC went from loyal to strap on wearing joker caricatures too fast. Even the Word Bearers, after 40 years of chaos worship, only had that level of corruption in small numbers. All the EC described so far have no distance between themselves and a full fledged chaos marine. It's just a personal taste thing, but it makes me sad because I love Wraight :( . It's one of those scenarios where you just don't like a faction enough to stick it out, even if you love the author. I don't get ur complaint... Wraight makes it a point to show EC who are definitely anti-E Traitors...but who have been resisting Chaos corruption Cario, an EC Palatine Blade leader, and his whole crew are like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Even Eidolon discusses the slide, and isn't all the way down that line. "Soon our pleasures will be our masters." Also, compared to McNeill handling them on Istvaan, which largely boiled down to "it was excessive, and he felt sensations from it", that moment where Eidolon's stood on the edge of the battle at Kalium, pondering the sheer volume of pain, emotion and all the rest, gives me far more chills. "I wish it was me. I wish all these things were mine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Even Eidolon discusses the slide, and isn't all the way down that line. "Soon our pleasures will be our masters." Also, compared to McNeill handling them on Istvaan, which largely boiled down to "it was excessive, and he felt sensations from it", that moment where Eidolon's stood on the edge of the battle at Kalium, pondering the sheer volume of pain, emotion and all the rest, gives me far more chills. "I wish it was me. I wish all these things were mine." Cario even if he struggled against it - was getting pleasure from his struggle and defiance. Tis a closed circle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 Even Eidolon discusses the slide, and isn't all the way down that line. "Soon our pleasures will be our masters." Also, compared to McNeill handling them on Istvaan, which largely boiled down to "it was excessive, and he felt sensations from it", that moment where Eidolon's stood on the edge of the battle at Kalium, pondering the sheer volume of pain, emotion and all the rest, gives me far more chills. "I wish it was me. I wish all these things were mine." Wraight actually makes Eidolon a force to be reckoned with...and salvages the silly concept of a marine with his head stitched back on I like how Eidolon is questionably a completely different individual from his former self. He's a monster back from the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Even Eidolon discusses the slide, and isn't all the way down that line. "Soon our pleasures will be our masters." Also, compared to McNeill handling them on Istvaan, which largely boiled down to "it was excessive, and he felt sensations from it", that moment where Eidolon's stood on the edge of the battle at Kalium, pondering the sheer volume of pain, emotion and all the rest, gives me far more chills. "I wish it was me. I wish all these things were mine." Wraight actually makes Eidolon a force to be reckoned with...and salvages the silly concept of a marine with his head stitched back on I like how Eidolon is questionably a completely different individual from his former self. He's a monster back from the grave. He has an updated level of self-importance, greed, lust, envy then his previous iteration for sure Being killed can do that to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 The beauty of Eidolon in this book (I just finished it after picking it up a few days back) is that he as 'back from beyond the veil) knows more than most, including many of the Primarchs. He has seen the end, seen the destination for the Legion, and as alluded too very very early, recognizes how its going to go for the EC. Man, what a great book. I enjoyed pretty much everything about it. High points for me are the various discussions around the warp. Loved the discussion of various layers, the concepts, the foresight of the Navigators, the Webway Project, and the fact that victory is remaining true to oneself, regardless of the side you are on. A great example of what the setting provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Path of Heaven was a great read...I personally enjoyed it more than MoM. I might be biased as a WS fan though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Path of Heaven was a great read...I personally enjoyed it more than MoM. I might be biased as a WS fan though It was and is! With Fabius - they are the best 2 novels of 2016 b1soul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I want to know the reasoning behind the lack of screentime that Shiban and Yesugei share. It feels like it could simply be a matter of pacing, but equally it could be Wraight making a point about how far gone Shiban is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I want to know the reasoning behind the lack of screentime that Shiban and Yesugei share. It feels like it could simply be a matter of pacing, but equally it could be Wraight making a point about how far gone Shiban is. Shiban received the biggest transfromation. From a likable, always joyful khan to half 'Iron hand' mixed with techmarine. All joy is gone - he is brutal, he is efficient and probably the true 'father' of W40K White Scars. No more Summer Lightning for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 I think a scene between the two would've been nice I also would've enjoyed a few scenes with Jubal versus EC or DG champs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I think a scene between the two would've been nice I also would've enjoyed a few scenes with Jubal versus EC or DG champs True. Want it myself. Jubal vs DG would be nice - a little retrospective on Khan-Morty fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Devil Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I think my issue is that the EC went from loyal to strap on wearing joker caricatures too fast. Even the Word Bearers, after 40 years of chaos worship, only had that level of corruption in small numbers. All the EC described so far have no distance between themselves and a full fledged chaos marine. It's just a personal taste thing, but it makes me sad because I love Wraight . It's one of those scenarios where you just don't like a faction enough to stick it out, even if you love the author. I think it makes perfect sense that the Emperor's Children would fall the fastest. Combine the EC's drive to be the best with the insidious nature of Slaneesh's offerings and you get a lubed up water slide into hell. The EC also get to do it out in the open unlike the Word Bearers who had to hide it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 And as we've repeatedly argued, they're not all the way there yet. Even if Eidolon seems to have a raging stiffie for Cario :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I think my issue is that the EC went from loyal to strap on wearing joker caricatures too fast. Even the Word Bearers, after 40 years of chaos worship, only had that level of corruption in small numbers. All the EC described so far have no distance between themselves and a full fledged chaos marine. It's just a personal taste thing, but it makes me sad because I love Wraight . It's one of those scenarios where you just don't like a faction enough to stick it out, even if you love the author. I think it makes perfect sense that the Emperor's Children would fall the fastest. Combine the EC's drive to be the best with the insidious nature of Slaneesh's offerings and you get a lubed up water slide into hell. The EC also get to do it out in the open unlike the Word Bearers who had to hide it. i think a fast fall could still make sense, if it is a convincing fall. the legion seemed to venerate the emperor as a man, rather than a god (making them a good flipside of the WB) and the dismantling of that veneration was never really explored. it seemed like they cast a lifetime (centuries for the legion) of indoctrination and belief aside very, very easily. now, i don't think it was as simple as "magic sword" as many like to joke, but the embracing of "ooh sensation is better than discipline as a path to perfection" was only slightly more complex. the idea that laeran organs were another pathway to the emperor's perfection was a good start that went nowhere. path of heaven went some way to addressing that, making it the first time i understood how some EC (like eidolon) reconcile this shift in thinking. the palatine blades were the missing link i'd been hoping for between the pre and post downfall legion depictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I think my issue is that the EC went from loyal to strap on wearing joker caricatures too fast. Even the Word Bearers, after 40 years of chaos worship, only had that level of corruption in small numbers. All the EC described so far have no distance between themselves and a full fledged chaos marine. It's just a personal taste thing, but it makes me sad because I love Wraight . It's one of those scenarios where you just don't like a faction enough to stick it out, even if you love the author. I think it makes perfect sense that the Emperor's Children would fall the fastest. Combine the EC's drive to be the best with the insidious nature of Slaneesh's offerings and you get a lubed up water slide into hell. The EC also get to do it out in the open unlike the Word Bearers who had to hide it. i think a fast fall could still make sense, if it is a convincing fall. the legion seemed to venerate the emperor as a man, rather than a god (making them a good flipside of the WB) and the dismantling of that veneration was never really explored. it seemed like they cast a lifetime (centuries for the legion) of indoctrination and belief aside very, very easily. now, i don't think it was as simple as "magic sword" as many like to joke, but the embracing of "ooh sensation is better than discipline as a path to perfection" was only slightly more complex. the idea that laeran organs were another pathway to the emperor's perfection was a good start that went nowhere. path of heaven went some way to addressing that, making it the first time i understood how some EC (like eidolon) reconcile this shift in thinking. the palatine blades were the missing link i'd been hoping for between the pre and post downfall legion depictions. 'path of heaven went some way to addressing that, making it the first time i understood how some EC (like eidolon) reconcile this shift in thinking. the palatine blades were the missing link i'd been hoping for between the pre and post downfall legion depictions' - they were even more. They are the transition stance from what was to what would be. The downfall has actually happened. I can't see where EC could downfall more after 'Soul/Severed'. That's the end of transition. Nowhere to go from here. It's all would be the same. I think the point in space and time Eidolon has come to at the end of the Soul/Severed is actually his portrait in W40K. That's already transition fully done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Eidolon himself can see further to fall - they'll be slaves to more, mooore, regardless of tactical or strategic sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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