Tiger9gamer Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Thoughts on utility above the regular Vanguards? For the hopilites, I dunno. sure they all have haywire attacks in both CqC and range, but they would kinda just tarpit regular infantry and club them slowly if you take a naked squad. Sure it's death against vehicles, but against a wraith knight or other MC? Not much damage outside of 6's, and not much protection there aside from a 5+. Plus with imperatives, you have to decide wether or not your going to shoot with them or charge them into something to kill it. Both WS and BS minus's hurts them. The Peltasts on the other hand... they can out dakka a 10 man squad, hands down. 40 shots with the salvo profile (full shots cause they relentless) at 24" with shred?! I know it's same strength but holy carp that is some serious firepower against GEQ and MEQ! add that with the doctrina imperitives and your getting a lot of hits, and a lot of wounds after re-rolls. They also out perform the rangers somewhat. the str 4 ap 3 shot, while being heavy one, could prove murderous against most MEQ's at the same range the rangers have. plus, they are tougher too. maybe run 15 man squads and the opponent will need to kill 5 skitarii before their weapons are back to full strength again, and another 5 before the re-rolls stop. Gosh, I'm glad I have one extra box of skitarii troops. I feel an itch in my wallet, one that can only be scratched with peltasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I think the Hoplites would do well with a transport and a Magos to bodyguard. Basically anything short of a Titan that comes across them that has an AV value evaporates. For melee, they shoot and charge for 3 S4 attacks per guy (one AP5 and two AP4), so they will do alright against light infantry or even just to tarpit stuff with their invulnerable save. WS3 is unfortunate for a melee unit and I don't think you can reroll the failed invulnerable save either. I will build a unit just to have one. The Peltasts are very good. The 40 shred shots will deal ~15 wounds on average to MEQ before saves while a 10-man Vanguard does about 13.5. Or you have the option to hang back 30" and toss out rending S4 AP3 shots? Eat your heart out, Deathwatch! Vanguard are troops and are cheaper. You can take economical 5-man squads with 2 arc rifles and an arc pistol for an anti-tank unit that has a bit more reach than the Hoplites. They are also better against anything with a high toughness with their basic radium carbines. For example, in the above example if firing at a T5 model the Peltasts drop to 8.2 wounds, and cannot harm T6+. The Vanguard will do ~10 wounds to any toughness 5 or above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The Peltasts are very good. The 40 shred shots will deal ~15 wounds on average to MEQ before saves while a 10-man Vanguard does about 13.5. Or you have the option to hang back 30" and toss out rending S4 AP3 shots? Eat your heart out, Deathwatch! This. They may be a bit more expensive than vanguard, but the different ammo profiles make it worth anyway. Having range of rangers and AP3 is great for camping objectives while killing stuff, and still excel at massed fire if necessary. Bonus points for Shrouded'ing infiltrators for a turn. Combine with Stealth and cover (even your own units) for that sweet 2+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Those rules are crazy! All haywire squad? Goodbye arc rifle vanguard. I am so excited for these guys you have no idea! I already ordered 20 of each and after reading the rules, man I can't contain my excitement!So you got 40 extra skits waiting?Why yes, yes I do and I plan on ordering 20 more for the hoplites because I want big phalanxes!! Also in regards to the sergeant only having one wound I actually got a hold of FW today and according to their rules team that is accurate/ intended. In regards to Vanguard and if they are still valid I would say yes, however primarily as a Troop Tax now. I still plan on running four 5 man squads so I can run all of the dragoons I want to however if I have Hoplites on the table I will most likely run them naked or with plasma to give me some AP2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The Peltasts are very good. The 40 shred shots will deal ~15 wounds on average to MEQ before saves while a 10-man Vanguard does about 13.5. Or you have the option to hang back 30" and toss out rending S4 AP3 shots? Eat your heart out, Deathwatch! Bonus points for Shrouded'ing infiltrators for a turn. Combine with Stealth and cover (even your own units) for that sweet 2+. My first thought as well ! Infiltrators are dangerous to nearly everything IF they reach CC. With this rule they get a 4+ cover even when out in the open, 2+ with some terrain and you opponent realy needs to work if he wants to get rid of them. The Hoplites look so much cooler, but rule wise the Peltasts win imho... damn it, that means I need 20 of each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Those rules are crazy! All haywire squad? Goodbye arc rifle vanguard. I am so excited for these guys you have no idea! I already ordered 20 of each and after reading the rules, man I can't contain my excitement!So you got 40 extra skits waiting?Why yes, yes I do and I plan on ordering 20 more for the hoplites because I want big phalanxes!! Also in regards to the sergeant only having one wound I actually got a hold of FW today and according to their rules team that is accurate/ intended. In regards to Vanguard and if they are still valid I would say yes, however primarily as a Troop Tax now. I still plan on running four 5 man squads so I can run all of the dragoons I want to however if I have Hoplites on the table I will most likely run them naked or with plasma to give me some AP2. Funny you mention dragoons, as now you can give them a 3+ cover save with the peltasts without the war convocation! sure you gotta sacrifice a turn of shooting, but it may be worth it to keep that unit as a sort of "Reserve" so you can get a better mass charge with your dragoons. Once those guys are up the board then the Peltasts then come out of hiding and dakka the crap out of something. Wouldn't work against tau all that well in my oppinion, but the peltasts could be a nice counter for infiltrating kroot or washing pathfinders out of terrain. There are just so many awesome opportunities with this unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The conflict I have is a single large group of Pelts for the defensive bonus vs having to forgo the whole group's shooting to provide blind cover for another unit. I not sure if 2 X 10 man would be better than one 20 man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The conflict I have is a single large group of Pelts for the defensive bonus vs having to forgo the whole group's shooting to provide blind cover for another unit. I not sure if 2 X 10 man would be better than one 20 man. This is what play testing is for! I'm looking forward to it personally. On the subject of vanguard, they will still be much better at hurting high T units. That still gives them advantage in my mind, since there's a lot of bikes and MC in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 So back to Hoplites. Probably not that much better than Arc Vanguards and Breachers? It's too bad. They look cool. Might get one set just for looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 So back to Hoplites. Probably not that much better than Arc Vanguards and Breachers? It's too bad. They look cool. Might get one set just for looks. Well, they are tougher to be sure, but right now this unit really really suffers from the lack of a transport to get close. even with scout they probably won't get close enough turn 1 to do that much damage, and if your opponent is running a tank heavy list then they will be prioritized before anything else. I think this squad may need a full 20 guys to succeed in getting to the enemy, but other than that I have no clue how to protect them besides using a void shield or something. but if/ when we get a trios or a maccrod explorator.... ohhhhh baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Well, they are tougher to be sure, but right now this unit really really suffers from the lack of a transport to get close. even with scout they probably won't get close enough turn 1 to do that much damage, and if your opponent is running a tank heavy list then they will be prioritized before anything else. I think this squad may need a full 20 guys to succeed in getting to the enemy, but other than that I have no clue how to protect them besides using a void shield or something. but if/ when we get a trios or a maccrod explorator.... ohhhhh baby. Agreed, the Hoplites would be pretty disgusting if we had some form of transport, especially an Assault Transport (or just an Open Topped one). That's a ton of Haywire attacks on reasonably durable models, especially given they can shoot and charge. They're a bit on the pricey side, but given that they don't need any upgrades I wouldn't consider that a huge issue. I think we'll have to wait until the next AdMech codex to make good with these guys. The Peltasts, however, are simply godlike. They all but delete Rangers as a credible choice, as for 1 point more per model you're getting an insane firepower and flexibility upgrade at the loss of ObjSec (and Move Through Cover, I guess). They look sweet, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Rangers are already basically a Convocation tax, and taking away the ally transport rules meant I couldn't drop them out of Vendetta anymore. Convocation tax they shall remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Traitor Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I wonder, why are you all complaining so much about hoplites range when it is only 6" less than the vanguards? Range is an issue but it isn't a new one. I agree that with transports they would improve greatly but they're viable without them, they'll drawn a lot of firepower just like vanguards and if the survive they'll cause a lot of damage, just like vanguards. They won't be shooting anything most likely in first turn, but second turn and onwards they'll start being a threat to any vehicle in the field, what means that the enemy will shoot him insted of your vanguards or they'll avoid them instead of your vanguards, meaning that your vanguards will kill something; or on the other hand they'll deal with your vanguards, meaning that the hoplites will be dealing the damage. The issue that I see with them is doctrines, as they'll want to shoot and assault in the same time as much as possible, though I think this can be mitigated when assaulting non-walker vehicles. I'm eager to try them out, the hoplites look sooooo cool and, as mentioned above, I think they sinergize well with vanguards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I wonder, why are you all complaining so much about hoplites range when it is only 6" less than the vanguards? Range is an issue but it isn't a new one. I agree that with transports they would improve greatly but they're viable without them, they'll drawn a lot of firepower just like vanguards and if the survive they'll cause a lot of damage, just like vanguards. They won't be shooting anything most likely in first turn, but second turn and onwards they'll start being a threat to any vehicle in the field, what means that the enemy will shoot him insted of your vanguards or they'll avoid them instead of your vanguards, meaning that your vanguards will kill something; or on the other hand they'll deal with your vanguards, meaning that the hoplites will be dealing the damage. The issue that I see with them is doctrines, as they'll want to shoot and assault in the same time as much as possible, though I think this can be mitigated when assaulting non-walker vehicles. I'm eager to try them out, the hoplites look sooooo cool and, as mentioned above, I think they sinergize well with vanguards. Well, Vanguard deal more damage to any non AV unit. If your opponent keeps his tanks and walkers more than 12" away from you foot slogging Hoplites they are wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Something tells me the Peltasts will be nerfed when the they loose their experimental rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I had honestly grown bored with AdMech until these upgrades were released. I think two upgrade sets from both will work out well. Hooray for options ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietOfLiquor Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I had honestly grown bored with AdMech until these upgrades were released. I think two upgrade sets from both will work out well. Hooray for options ! Gotta love options! I can't wait until Skitarii gets love from both GW and FW for an expanded codex. So back to Hoplites. Probably not that much better than Arc Vanguards and Breachers? It's too bad. They look cool. Might get one set just for looks. Well, they are tougher to be sure, but right now this unit really really suffers from the lack of a transport to get close. even with scout they probably won't get close enough turn 1 to do that much damage, and if your opponent is running a tank heavy list then they will be prioritized before anything else. I think this squad may need a full 20 guys to succeed in getting to the enemy, but other than that I have no clue how to protect them besides using a void shield or something. but if/ when we get a trios or a maccrod explorator.... ohhhhh baby. The macrocoid explorator looks like it fits the bill! It's definitely inspired by Titans, which if it's the case, then it should port over to Securtarii quite nicely. To bad it only has a 10 man capacity, but I'd still take it for hoplites if it were to become an option I just can't wait to see what else is brought to us. I'd love to see like... maybe tech priests become an option for skitarii or dominus's to stroll with them. But who knows, we're still pretty far out from any information :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Personally I'm looking forward to running x20 man Phalanxes of Hoplites. Tactically depending on the army I am facing it may or may not make a lot of sense but it sure as hell will look awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Same here... ordered 40 Vanguard today and will split them 20/20 :) With the 10 unpainted Vanguard at home I need to paint 50 of these guys :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Same here... ordered 40 Vanguard today and will split them 20/20 :) With the 10 unpainted Vanguard at home I need to paint 50 of these guys :/ Commitment, I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trokair Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Does anybody know if the Secutarii will be available to be fielded in Taghmata or even Legio Cybernetica lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Here I am, just starting out with Dark Eldar (since I've finished painting my 2,5K Ad Mech) and then, after a small eternity we get new content! Now I have to go and buy those sprues and more Vanguards again. xD But between you and me: Those Peltasts look so similar to Vanguards w/ Plasma Calivers that I'll probably just play mine as the Peltasts. The Hoplites on the other hand demand an investment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietOfLiquor Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Does anybody know if the Secutarii will be available to be fielded in Taghmata or even Legio Cybernetica lists? From what I understand from following the topic, it should be an extension of taghmata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 That's true with the Pelts looking like Cavaliers. I might just proxy that too and get Hops just for the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 So I preordered the peltasts and got a fresh box of infantry ready to go... Man I cannot wait for some new dakka to grace the table. Should I have them walk up with their bretheren to blast apart units, or should I use them as cover campers? hmm, choices choices... One thing's for sure... this would look great next to my Taghmata list! =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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