30k Kill Team Experience

[The4thHorseman]

My FLGS has Started a Weekly Kill Team Event, and for the First Time Ever has allowed 30k to be played along side 40k. Usually, 30k is relicated to the dusty corner of friendly games because we don't have enough people who have large enough 30k forces to Warrant our own 30k event, trying to change that myself. But this time we can Play 30k vs 40k in this Kill Team Event.

 

So I Know my options will be severely Limited due to the Point cost of HH units, but I want to Participate and show other 40k Players that HH is Just as Playable and worst case under powered vs 40k so don't be afraid of it.

 

The Restrictions on the Kill Team are the GW Rules for Kill Team that recently Just came out.

 

So 200 point Limit, No 2+ Sv, Max 15 Models to a unit, 3 Wound max, No Flyers, Max AV for a Vehicle is 33 Combined Sides, No Relics.

 

0-2 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Fast Attack.

 

I would like to know what Units others would Possibly Bring given the Game Restrictions and My Situation.

 

I play Blood Angels.

 

I was initially thinking Veteran Squad Dirt Cheap w/ Heavy Bolters, with Marksman Rule for Outflank and Sniper goodness. Or Tool them for CC.

 

I also contemplated maybe a Squad of Black Shields.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Alright, I know I'm not the one to normally say stuff like this, but...

 

I've run Legion Veterans in KT before. I know, shocking, right? Psycho's actually played the game, and has relevant experience. To make a long story short: I had a rough time. I had them either as Snipers or Furious Charge (before the update dropped, obviously,) I can't remember which exactly. I got slaughtered by some 40k Tacticals. Now, this is likely more due to a lack of skill on my part than anything else, but the points difference between Tacs and Veterans, even though it doesn't seem huge, is a pretty big deal in Kill Team. You've got the right idea, I think, keeping them basic, but I'm not sure that's good enough.  I have to confess I'm not familiar enough with Blackshields to make an accurate determination, but what little I (think I) do know, I'd go with them over the Vets.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[The4thHorseman]

Yea, I mean Outflank up and Fire 8 BG and 6 HB shots, 16 and 6 if in Rapid Fire Range and hope some are AP2 which would Vape any model in KT without an Invul Save.

 

I mean I could do a Regular Tactical Squad and be able o Fury of the Legion, but I feel that they would be out maneuvered.

[RandomMarine]

Recon squads with shotguns,meltbombs and cameoline seems like it would be fun to play not overly effective but fun. A barebone 10 man tac squad and a sentry battery with 2x heavy flamers seem good to my mind. Forward delopy tarantula's in choke points if possible give them poision or fleshbane then you've 10 tacs running round furying things

+++ Killteam (200pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List ((Zone Mortalis) Combatant) ++

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Heavy Chainsword, Power Armour]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Legion Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery [Forward Deployment, 2x Tarantula Sentry Gun, 2x Twin-linked Heavy Flamers]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, X: Iron Hands]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

[Noserenda]

I ran a squad of 10 Blood Angel Veterans with 2 power swords and an assault cannon with good success, the 15 man limit is good as hordes ruin kill team tbh.

Legion Veterans are basically the sole choice in the Legion list, they are cheap, flexible and have a small minimum unit, though i suspect Speeders would be good too!

[Brother Dallo]

I recall seeing someone post a World Eater list here with a flamer support squad and a couple of autocannon attack bikes, which looked like it could be pretty nasty.

 

Dallo

[The4thHorseman]

Recon squads with shotguns,meltbombs and cameoline seems like it would be fun to play not overly effective but fun. A barebone 10 man tac squad and a sentry battery with 2x heavy flamers seem good to my mind. Forward delopy tarantula's in choke points if possible give them poision or fleshbane then you've 10 tacs running round furying things

+++ Killteam (200pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List ((Zone Mortalis) Combatant) ++

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Heavy Chainsword, Power Armour]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Legion Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery [Forward Deployment, 2x Tarantula Sentry Gun, 2x Twin-linked Heavy Flamers]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, X: Iron Hands]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

 

I never even thought of a Sentry Gun. I just double checked the Kill Team Rules and there is NOTHING against having Artillery. And bonus, I actually Own One, might be interesting.

[Plaguecaster]

Having a black shield kill team would be pretty good especially with marauders you can having every marine armed with different weapons from shotguns to heavy chainswords what's best is that a black shield kill team would still be affected by the wrought by at rule so you can have a chymeriae kill team

[Corswain]

Blackshields seems like a good idea. Different weapon combos mean you can show off some 30K specific rules and weapons without overdoing it - One guy running around with a volkite is a lot less intimidating than 5.

 

If the goal is to have a bit of fun and introduce people to some 30K then Blackshields seems like the way to go. Or maybe Shattered Legions..

 

Have fun and let us know how it goes!

[The4thHorseman]

I think I might try to play test a Blackshield Squad. Anyone have any Blackshield Suggestions?

 

Also with Kill Teams there is the Breat Test Rule: If more than half of the Models in your Kill Team have been destoyed your force is Broken and each of the remaining models must take a Leadership Test at the beginning of every Movement Phase. If you passs you live, if you fail you leave the battlefield.

 

The Break Test might not be that bad for 30k Units because its just like all other Xenos Armies for the most part in 40k. The annoying thing is that I know people will bring Fearless Units and obviously Space Marines. Fearless Models automatically Pass the Break Test and ATSKNF lest you Re Roll a Failed Test.

 

So with the Blackshields you have +1 to See who goes First and you could pick the Death Seekers Wrought by War Rule and gain 6+ FnP and Not take any Pinning or Moral Tests from Shooting.

 

Also if I take a Legion Tarantula Sentry Gun, how do I take a Break Test? It has No Ld and is Immoblile and Has NO CREW unilke the Rapier.

[exsanguis]

What about Seekers? Probably to expensive, but the special issue ammo might come in handy.

 

Other marines aren't going to like Scorpius rounds!

[CaptainHelion]

The Tarantula would automatically fail, wouldn't it? AFAIK that's the standard case for if something lacks a characteristic.

[The4thHorseman]

The Tarantula would automatically fail, wouldn't it? AFAIK that's the standard case for if something lacks a characteristic.

 

Ok so Heres the Exact Wording on the Two Rules/ Descriptions which apply to the Tarantula.

 

Automated Artillery

Unlike standard artillery, Automated Artillery does not require crew in order to function. It is not removed from play due to lack of crew and each gun must be destroyed normally before it is removed from play. Automated Artillery cannot move and cannot charge. If assaulted they do not pile-in and cannot be locked in combat, their attackers will hit automatically, but must roll To Wound normally. If a unit of Automated Artillery loses an assault nothing happens, there are no Sweeping Advances, no Pile-ins and no Consolidation moves. The Automated Artillery remains in place and may fire normally in future turns. If the Automated Artillery wins an assault due to exceptional circumstances, the enemy must take a Morale test as normal, although the Artillery cannot Consolidate or make a Sweeping Advance.

Immobile

An Immobile Artillery piece cannot be moved after it has been deployed, and ignores any effect which forces it to move. This only affects the platform and the crew are subject to all normal artillery rules. When called upon to fall back the crew must leave their guns behind and Fall Back, the platforms are then removed as casualties.

 

So I think based on that it is ignored when called upon to make a Leadership Test, not that it Auto Passes, but Doesn't Take one. Thoughts?

[Grim Dog Studios]

If you're sticking to the 200 point kill team rules, I would honestly rather go veteran squad than blackshield marauder squad. You really want to maximize the amount of blokes you have over loads of special weapons in my opinion and the base cost of 10 men in either squad is very different. The marauder squad at 10 men only leaves you 15 points for upgrades whilst the vet squad leaves you 40 points for upgrades.

[Noserenda]

I considered Seekers but you end up with a fair few less than you do veterans :( (though i did use some seeker models ;) )

 

Tarantulas are intriguing but surely pretty expensive and inflexible in a skirmish game and not particularly hard to off.

[The4thHorseman]

I considered Seekers but you end up with a fair few less than you do veterans (though i did use some seeker models ) Tarantulas are intriguing but surely pretty expensive and inflexible in a skirmish game and not particularly hard to off.

Yea Seekers are just too expensive for what they do.

The Tarantula is actually more cost effective vs the Marine equivalent except you lose movement, but you could argue that you deny a 48" Diameter Area. As a Blood Angel, I can replace HB Tarantula for Heavy Flamers for Free then Spend a Melta Bomb for a Twin-linked Assault Cannon, which has Rending. This Makes the weapon basically the same as a Vet with Sniper for all intensive purposes. So with the Assault Cannon and the 2 Wounds the Tarantula is actually cheaper 4 pts than 1 Vets with a HB and an addition Vet for the additional Wound. So I think its comparable.

[Noserenda]

Im not sure they can upgrade TL Heavy flamers as written? Its not just moving you are giving up though with the Tarantula, it has very limited fire arcs/ranges and it always has to shoot the nearest target, with a lower BS (Albeit twinned), really its childishly simple to counter or ignore even before you bring in its inability to get a tasty specialist rule.

[The4thHorseman]

Im not sure they can upgrade TL Heavy flamers as written? Its not just moving you are giving up though with the Tarantula, it has very limited fire arcs/ranges and it always has to shoot the nearest target, with a lower BS (Albeit twinned), really its childishly simple to counter or ignore even before you bring in its inability to get a tasty specialist rule.

 

Remember I am Playing 30k in a 40k Kill Team, and as Such I am Bringing the 30k Tarantula, which is notable different then the 40k version.

 

Right in the options it says that I may exchange Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters for Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer for Free. Being Faction Legion Blood Angels I can opt to Exchange any Heavy Flamer for an Illastus Assault Cannon for a Melta Bomb Pts. Just as in the Blood Angels Rule Mentioning Assault Cannons and Vehicles if the Heavy Flamers are Twin-Linked then so would the Replacement Assault Cannon.

 

There is no restriction on Ranges other than what the Weapon Profile has, in Assault Cannon's case its 24", the Firing Arc on the Tarantula is 360 Degrees. I agree with you on the lower BS but also being Twin-Linked Mitigates that to some extent. But You are absolutely Right that I would be missing out on the Extra Rules I could give Models in the Kill Team.

[Noserenda]

Uh my 30k Tarantulas still have some targeting rules, (though i guess it may have been mechanicum ones ive been using recently that do have arcs still) Meaning it has to shoot the nearest target which is often going to suck in kill team, just like old Necromunda again every specialist tends to have some meatshields to give a cover save/block LOS :) 

I seem to recall you cant swap Twin flamers for twin assault cannons either from general consensus but i dont have that book to hand, or any twin flamers in my Angels :) 

[CaptainHelion]

"Any Blood Angels model (including vehicles) equipped with heavy flamers may exchange them for an Iliastus pattern assault cannon for + 5 points each. Legion Predator Tanks may also exchange their Predator cannon with a twin-linked Iliastus pattern assault cannon for Free."

The general consensus on this is that TL Heavy Flamers aren't the same weapon as Heavy Flamers, and thus you can't swap them out. There's no separate stipulation for vehicles or other kinds of TL Heavy Flamers, just that Predator cannons can be swapped 1-1 for TL Assault Cannons.

[exsanguis]

Support Squad with Volkite or Flamers?

[The4thHorseman]

So far in the Practice Games the Assault Cannon Tarantula has been Awesome. Either they avoid it and I control that Table Quarter or they Attack it and One by One it Moes them down because It can't be locked in Combat. Also because its a Non-Vehicle Model I can give it Specialist Rules, so Ignores Cover is so Broken on it.

 

The only thing is no one could figure out if I could Overwatch with it. Artillery says the Crew fires Overwatch not the gun, but a Tarantula has no Crew and is Automated so Logically it should, but no where says what Happens.

[The boater]

Another option that would provide some variety would be a handful of the legion specific squads. I know Night Lords terror squads are points effective and have flavor like volkites and close combat weapons. Sons of Horus revers would be similar. (though not as points effective) You then get the added bonus of some of the cool special rules while introducing other players to units that simply don't have a counterpart in regular 40k.

 

As for the tarantula and overwatch, I don't see a reason why it cant fluff wise (literally as an automated turret it would fire at something that got close I would think) and rules wise it sounds like it wouldn't be an issue as the rule states "it requires no crew to fire" so I'd make the justification that it is acting as its own crew for rules purposes.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I was thinking about 30K and KT the other day... Mostly because the idea of taking Rapiers (since they are elites unlike TFC)seemed disgustingly nasty..

[The4thHorseman]

I was thinking about 30K and KT the other day... Mostly because the idea of taking Rapiers (since they are elites unlike TFC)seemed disgustingly nasty..

 

But how would you play the Artillery with Crew? Are they each their own Unit or is it basically Additional Wound Pool for the Gun/ ability to Overwatch? Also would you be making Break Tests for Each Crew Member or just One? If you are Making two Break Tests then you are more likely to fail and the Gun would be Destroyed.