[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[Nusquam]

Thats true, even a typhon cant ID them. They have a 5++ to fall back on as well.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The pallas actually has really low quality shooting. Their best shooting is the adrathic, and that's hoping they keep the devastator for more chances to kill vehicles compared to the small blast; the 420 canon is worse than a multi-melta. Compared to a fully loaded javelin they're severely lacking, and the only way to make them good is to use squads of them. And that's where FW hits you with 65 pounds each.

 

Idk, the bikes do their job better imo

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Wait what is wrong with the base gun?? 48"str8 ap1? With a 50% chance to cause a second pen for free? I Will love staring a unit of these behind cover on board popping around and dropping armor.

 

 

Assuming you get pen:

25% odds of causing explode post first pen of 33% yields a massive 58% odd of exploding. Choice. This relies on hitting and yes penning. Lol

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea that's the kicker; assuming you pen. How prevalent are multimeltas? Sure, they can slay some light/medium armour, but the heavy stuff just laughs at them.

[Purge the Daemon]

Yea that's the kicker; assuming you pen. How prevalent are multimeltas? Sure, they can slay some light/medium armour, but the heavy stuff just laughs at them.

S8 exoshock looks good u til you factor in hit rolls and cover saves and then trying to kill something with a higher av than a Rhino. It eventually falls flat. It's the same reason Sicaran Venators look lackluster a lot of the time sure high strength is nice buto low rate of fire and cover saves really hurt it same with the pallas.

[Rabidbunneh]

I think the bikes are better than the Pallas. Having access to better guns as well as being able to charge and deal with MEQ as well as tanks (with meltabombs) means they are so versatile. The Pallas has one job it does. Sort of. Ish.

[TompiQ]

From a mathhammer viewpoint, the odds of an explode with S8ap1 exoshock vs S9ap2 is as follows (assuming the target isn't open topped):

S8ap1: X/6 * (2/6+1/2*2/6) => 3X/36

S9ap: (X+1)/6 * 1/6 => (X+1)/36

Where X is the number of results on a D6 that results in a penetrating hit for S8. For example, striking AV12 X=2 and you get 6/36 vs 3/36, meaning the Blaze has a 100% higher chance to explode the target. AV13 means X=1 and we get 3/36 vs 2/36, meaning S8ap1 has a 50% higher chance to explode compared to an S9ap2 hit. AV14 gives us X=0 and thus the blaze can no longer contend.

 

What we can see is that a hit with the blaze cannon is stronger than a hit with the las-pulser. However, we also have to take into account the fact that the las-pulser averages 2 shots with a maximum potential of 3 shots. This means that vs Av12, on average the las-pulser has an equal explode chance. Vs AV13, it's actually the pulser that is 33% stronger in total. And versus AV14 there's simply no competition, the las-pulser wins.

 

Combining this math with the fact that the Las-Pulser has a better chance of stripping hull-points, we see that unless you want to target AV10/11 the Las-Pulser has a better than equal chance to destroy the target compared to the blaze cannon. For me the choice is easy, I'll go with bikes every time. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by TompiQ

[Jarkaira]

^Still stripping off hull points is a way to go as 100% better probability for exploding something up is still just 16.67%. You'll wreck it before you get enough pens to explode it.

[Fallen11]

After I saw bikes in action, I do consider them better than pallas, and better than javelins...

units of 3 costs you around 300pts, seems expensive at first,but you will average get 6 lascannon shots from them with BS5 -> 5 hits. You also get split fire. Then there is also one krak granade, can't really hurt not to throw it vs rear armor. Then you get T6, menaing unless there is ID weapon, you will survive, 2W,2+ 5++, they are charachters and thus get to look out sir, and can also jink. Throw in melta bomb so that you threathen vehichles/dreadnoughts. And you can also charge and kill support squads, with lances.

Not bad at all ;)

[TompiQ]

The jetbikes really are something special. With Las-Pulsers you are capable on taking on absolutely any kind of foe. Vehicles? Blast'em. Standard marines and weaker? Blast'em and charge'em. 2+ save bodies? Blast'em and kite them with your ludicrous speed.

 

12" move and 24" turbo boost means you can always distance yourself from threats, and 3" coherency on T6 2+/5++/4+jink bodies means not even a typhon will cause major damage scoring a maximum of 2 hits at max coherency. Our flyboys are truly our aces.

[Gorgoff]

I hope they're expansive as hell, so whenever my boys get beaten by them it still forces a smile on my face knowing that he had to sell a kidney to get them. ;)

[nightwrench]

 

 

 

I am planning a full squad of bikes with both the las-pulser and the adrathic.

Gross!

 

 

 

....I want 3x2 pallas squads lol

I've been wondering this

 

3 pallas or 3 jetbikes with corvaes? Only a difference of 5 points. One is three speeders with AV12+FS and machine spirit so they can always kite, jink, and shoot. The other has the dakka with power lances sprinkled on top but jinking hurts.

Personally I'm leaning to the Jetbikes just cause I like them and the fact they can't assault and shoot is really nice. Also t6 bikes with 2+ are really good especially with multi wound you just can't put them down.

 

 

A pallas is a 2 wound model with a 4++ cover save and at toughness of 8.  That is how I look at vehicles.  Typically a vehicle is hull pointed out not exploded.  If you want to think about an explodes then it is a lucky 6 that causes instant death against a vehicle if it is AP2.  I know this is a simplistic way to look at it but it works.

 

Where the Pallas can get fun is on the warlord trait chosen.  Getting move through cover ruins and stealth ruins increases their survivability or anytime you can get stealth to get the 3+ cover save.

 

When comparing a two wound model to a two wound model the ability for the jet bikes to always have move through cover and assault is a big bonus for me.  Plus the split fire as a special rule.  Also you can get more fire power per slot out of the jet bikes.

 

Now where I like the Pallas (model is very pretty) is outflank is a great option to get advantageous shots on a hard target.  But with a move of 12 on both the bikes and pallas by turn two you should be getting side shots already when you would be outflanking.  Both have deep strike and jinking does hurt the bikes firepower more than the squadron of Pallas. 

 

If you go heavy skimmer I would consider the Dust of a thousand world warlord trait.  this gives all units move through cover within 12 inches.  That is a big bubble especially for your skimmer transports.

[SkimaskMohawk]

ew that warlord trait is bad.

 

especially so since it doesn't work while embarked on a transport

[TompiQ]

Indeed, that's a major detriment to the usefulness of aura traits. It's a shame we didn't get our own traits table too.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Reigning the auras is a good thing for the game.

[Nusquam]

After I saw bikes in action, I do consider them better than pallas, and better than javelins...

units of 3 costs you around 300pts, seems expensive at first,but you will average get 6 lascannon shots from them with BS5 -> 5 hits. You also get split fire. Then there is also one krak granade, can't really hurt not to throw it vs rear armor. Then you get T6, menaing unless there is ID weapon, you will survive, 2W,2+ 5++, they are charachters and thus get to look out sir, and can also jink. Throw in melta bomb so that you threathen vehichles/dreadnoughts. And you can also charge and kill support squads, with lances.

Not bad at all

 

3 with 3 corvaes is 250. It's a squadron upgrade, not per model. I missed the character part, that is so dirty. Not as dirty as it used to be where you could put it on anyone. But still dirty enough to potentially move that second wound off a lead bike and let it live.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Can someone help me math the number of attacks the achillus gets?

 

4 base +1 for 2 cc weapons (fist)

Then if you take spear you get an additional cc weapon so is that another +1?

 

6 attacks base? 7 if he gets charged/gets charge off? I have someone telling me 8 but can't figure out how he's getting that.

[1ncarnadine]

 

 3 with 3 corvaes is 250. It's a squadron upgrade, not per model. 

 

That must be a typo. Look at all of those singular nouns. Someone pasted the unit entry name in instead of "Custodian Agamatus" or something stupid.

[TompiQ]

Can someone help me math the number of attacks the achillus gets?

 

4 base +1 for 2 cc weapons (fist)

Then if you take spear you get an additional cc weapon so is that another +1?

 

6 attacks base? 7 if he gets charged/gets charge off? I have someone telling me 8 but can't figure out how he's getting that.

 

I think the argument is that you get an extra attack for 2 weapons, then one attack per weapon after the first according to the Walker section of the rulebook. I'm pretty sure the latter is to be regarded as a replacement for the standard 2 weapon attack, but I haven't looked into the RAW so I'm not going to pass judgement.

 

 

 

 3 with 3 corvaes is 250. It's a squadron upgrade, not per model. 

 

That must be a typo. Look at all of those singular nouns. Someone pasted the unit entry name in instead of "Custodian Agamatus" or something stupid.

 

 

Well, it's obvious that that section of the options is wrong. If we check it we see

 

Any Agamatus Jetbike Squadron may upgrade its Iliastus bolt cannon with one of the following options:

- Adrathic Devestator +5 points

- Twin-linked Corvae las-pulser +25 points

 

First of all, it has been confirmed that Iliastus bolt cannon should be Lastrum bolt cannon. Second of all, we've seen on the models that it isn't an upgrade with an additional weapon but rather a replacement. Beyond that here's how the option should actually be worded in order for it to make sense, option 1 is for a squadron upgrade and option 2 is for a per-model price:

 

 

The entire Agamatus Jetbike Squadron may replace their Lastrum bolt cannons with one of the following options:

- Adrathic Devestators +5 points

- Twin-linked Corvae Las-pulsers 25 points

 

 

 

 

The entire Agamatus Jetbike Squadron may replace their Lastrum bolt cannons with one of the following options:

- Adrathic Devestator +5 points each

- Twin-linked Corvae las-pulser +25 points each

 

 

 

Beyond that there's the possibility that the bikes are supposed to be able to mix and match options. Then we'd need this wording:

 

 

Any Custodian Agamatus may replace their Lastrum bolt cannon with one of the following options:

- Adrathic Devestator +5 points

- Twin-linked Corvae Las-pulser +25 points

 

In the end the last of the options is the one that requires the least editing of the page, however it is also furthest away from RAW since the rules currently specify a squadron.

Edited February 15, 2017 by TompiQ

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I don't think it can be a replacement [the spear] since he would lose one of his hand weapons. And it very explicitly stated:

 

"In addition to their standards armament..."

 

A 7 attack dread on charge or getting charged with a mastercradted spear makes me very happy.

[TompiQ]

I don't think it can be a replacement [the spear] since he would lose one of his hand weapons. And it very explicitly stated:

 

"In addition to their standards armament..."

 

A 7 attack dread on charge or getting charged with a mastercradted spear makes me very happy.

 

The spear is absolutely in no way a replacement, it's very clear that they end up with 3 melee weapons. 

 

And reading the rules I can confirm that there's no way you'd get 8 attacks. The argument as I mentioned is that you get a bonus for two weapons as well as one attack for each weapon beyond the first, however the rulebook is quite explicit in that the latter rule is an extension of the former. It even uses a walker with three weapons as an example, stating it would get two bonus attacks.

 

So a Contemptor-Achillus gets 4 attacks base, +1 for its fists, yet another +1 if it takes the spear, and +1 if it charges or gets charged thanks to counter-attack. 7 is its maximum value.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

I don't think it can be a replacement [the spear] since he would lose one of his hand weapons. And it very explicitly stated:

 

"In addition to their standards armament..."

 

A 7 attack dread on charge or getting charged with a mastercradted spear makes me very happy.

The spear is absolutely in no way a replacement, it's very clear that they end up with 3 melee weapons.

 

And reading the rules I can confirm that there's no way you'd get 8 attacks. The argument as I mentioned is that you get a bonus for two weapons as well as one attack for each weapon beyond the first, however the rulebook is quite explicit in that the latter rule is an extension of the former. It even uses a walker with three weapons as an example, stating it would get two bonus attacks.

 

So a Contemptor-Achillus gets 4 attacks base, +1 for its fists, yet another +1 if it takes the spear, and +1 if it charges or gets charged thanks to counter-attack. 7 is its maximum value.

 

That's what I thought. That is damn strong though.

 

I will need 2.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Man both dreads are beastly, regardless of how they rule the Impale wording. Shame that the Spear one competes with terminators and hetaerons 

[depthcharge12]

 

Man both dreads are beastly, regardless of how they rule the Impale wording. Shame that the Spear one competes with terminators and hetaerons 

 

Yeah that was a real pain in the gene seed. I wanted to take terminators, but that dreadstodes with the spear was too cool to pass up, especially since it has a working model already.

 

It's going to be compounded when we find out that the Heavy dread is super cool awesome sauce, and it competes with something else we want. Like seriously, it's so hard to take Custardes when they have all the cool new shiny gold plated stuff.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

 

 

Man both dreads are beastly, regardless of how they rule the Impale wording. Shame that the Spear one competes with terminators and hetaerons

Yeah that was a real pain in the gene seed. I wanted to take terminators, but that dreadstodes with the spear was too cool to pass up, especially since it has a working model already.

 

It's going to be compounded when we find out that the Heavy dread is super cool awesome sauce, and it competes with something else we want. Like seriously, it's so hard to take Custardes when they have all the cool new shiny gold plated stuff.

Idk where they are putting heavy dread but I know it's no good for my wallet.

 

If I had to guess heavy...?