Applications for Legio XVIII

[Kelborn]

Asia has a wide variety of different kind of cultures. We already have three Asian infkuences legions and still we haven't covered everything. ^^

 

And yep, you forgot the Wardens, Simi. ;)

 

What else is missing? Renessaince, Spanish / Portuguese, western America (Cowboys) and medieval knights, correct?

 

In very excited of how this election will end as nearly every participant covers one of the missing cultures / themes. :)

 

And so that it won't be forgotten, what about Sangis offer? :)

[bluntblade]

We need Sangi to elaborate on what will make his Legion unique.

 

The Shepherds have a knightly aesthetic that will be developed as they gain more of a fluff presence. Vyrn's sword-and-board schtick is part of that, and the Oedon melee elite should reflect it too as Raktra and I figure out their crunch function.

 

We don't have anything from the Pacific Islands (Maori marines would be on par with Iron Bears for size) or South America. Also while Squig's Serpents draw on the Ghazis of the early Islamic conquests, there is the ancient Persian empire to use for inspiration.

Edited November 1, 2016 by bluntblade

[MikhalLeNoir]

Damn...a gunslinger legion....

[Kelborn]

Maori / Hawaii will be featured after the insurrection when the loyal predators become the Storm Blades. :)

[MikhalLeNoir]

I hope they have then a rite of war: Haka.

 

 

They become fearless and spread fear among the enemy ranks.

[Sete]

What else is missing? Renessaince, Spanish / Portuguese,?

 

How would you represent this one?

Orbital assault is mass infantry deployment by drop pod or Thunderhawk (or any atmospheric assault vehicle).

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sete

[Kelborn]

Hm

Spanish Inquisition ish?

Let the holy wrath of the Emperor fall upon these unbelievers!

Sending their infantry first while preparing the cavalry in the background?

[Sigismund229]

Normans. Although that kind of Modus Operandi is taken by the Warbringers I believe.

 

@sim: I'm guessing that even if I had been awake enough to notice and object it wouldn't have counted?(seeing as I'm hardly disinterested)

[Sete]

Hm

Spanish Inquisition ish?

Let the holy wrath of the Emperor fall upon these unbelievers!

Sending their infantry first while preparing the cavalry in the background?

Well that's kinda the theme I'm going for. But it's the Primarch Wrath and judgement.

But it's a bit hard to find a theme for them that isn't nautical tbh. Spanish Conquistadors and Portuguese Bandeirantes could be used for a Legion that is on the forefront of the Crusade, kinda like the white scars were, the pathfinders.

The Nautical theme could be used there aswell for void combat, ship to ship action, and expanding the borders of the Imperium trough conquest and discovery.

Also the Military religious orders were influential, in Portugal the Order of Christ, (a new name for the reformed Templars) was critical in the funding of the discoveries.

Also to maintain an Empire so far of the capital, fortresses were built everywhere, with fleets patrolling the seas between them.

 

It involves a broad range of themes, that so far I had trouble mixing all together.

Being Portuguese, I tried this before for a DiY chapters but was never happy with the result. Maybe it could be easily fit in a Legion.

 

A particularly zealous Legion pushing the Imperium borders, discovering new worlds to bring into the fold of the Imperium, elite units with a religious Knightly feel, and Independent recon companies used as pathfinders? With a knack for fortress building and void combat? (It's a bit Imperial Fists theme)

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sete

[Nomus Sardauk]

We need Sangi to elaborate on what will make his Legion unique.

 

Apologies for the brief silence on my part, but I have good news! Kelborn, Grifftober and I have formed a Triumvirate of sorts and are working to develop a techie legion together, so expect to hear more on that soon! :)

[bluntblade]

A theme can always be adapted. Feel free to just use "Conquistadors in space" as a jumping-off point.

 

What I'd really like to see is an indication of where any Legion would fit into the Insurrection.

[Raktra]

African/south African is up for grabs, too. I know I mentioned the 'Serkers and South Africa together awhile back, but that was just accents and part of the Terran recruitment pool rather than a strong stylistic influence.

[Doctor Perils]

Right, I'm swearing at my computer now: that's the second time it's eaten what I was writting because a http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/censored.gif thing is wrong with an update or the keyboard and the ctrl key suddenly starts activating itself for no reason, meaning that it's hitting "previous page" on its own. Don't be surprised if I'm a bit more terse then you would like.

 

-Generalripphook is our conservative option as he'll simple take over the reins of the Jackels

 

-Talonair wants to do a Loyalist Legion that's a Jack-of-all-trades specialty. At the time, all I can think of was Ultramarines, but it was only later that it occurred to me that it might overlap with the Warriors of Peace. Either way, Talonair has yet to present his idea to the group, so we'll see if anything changes between private and public.

 

-Sete is offering the Judicators, a Knight Legion that specializes in orbital drops, assault troops perhaps? The warrior culture is fine, while the Strategic Tendency could use some development. Bonus points for being responsive throughout the day.

 

-Nate is offering a Loyalist, Germanic Knight legion as well. While he's offering everything on the table, some ideas he had was a legion that emphasized a mailed fist, in the form of terminators and dreadnoughts. Basically, Nate is a huge walker fan and would go in that direction. Potentially, it would be a siege assault legion, breaking down walls, while the Fire Keepers are known for building them. Not sure if that intrudes upon the Godslayers, but again, he's flexible.

 

-Reddragon is offering the Brazen Bulls. I actually have some serious reservations about this legion, mainly the bull sacrificing. Even with the Emperor a cross between his Noblebright self of 1st Edition and his latter more sinister portrayals in later editions, I don't know how this is allowed for any period of time. I think the Brazen Bulls, as they are right now, make an excellent Lost Legion, but need tweaking to be one that avoids being purged.

 

-TheBlindPrimarch is offering the Paladins of Midterra. This is a third, knightly legion, but the Primarch is blind, which exceeds our limit. Furthermore, the strong psyker presence in the legion is unwelcomed, and I'm not sure how the low visibility fighting works with the Grave Stalkers nearby.

 

-ckpmax1108 is offering The Devoured. Honestly, I'm much more impressed by the quick post above than what I was seeing in the thread. Having a jungle Thai legion could offer a trifecta with the Japanese, graceful Lightning Warriors and the Chinese, methodical Warriors of Peace. One problem is that we have several hit-and-run legions as it is, which is what guerrilla warfare is. On the other hand, that might make them a more suitable replacement for the Jackels.

 

-Finally, helterskelter's Borg Marines. I haven't heard any in-depth explanation of them, so there's not much I can say, except I fear of treading on material that could be better used for our Mechanicum factions.

1. Others have already said this, but I don't think it is fair to take over another person's work without their express permission - if we were to keep some of the groundwork for the Jackels, major things would have to change
2. While I'm not against a jack of all trades per se, if not handled correctly it's rapidly boring - look at many of the Ultramarines stories! Also, other legions here have an overall jack of all trades theme, like the Crimson Lions - the specialties are a bit dispersed among the clans, but they can still do a lot of everything.
3. I'm going to be brutally honest and say that - as things stand - the Judicator's sound like simply Black Templars Legion. What's more, we already have two witchhunting legions in the form of the Predators and the Firekeepers. I'd say that, if you wished to include such a legion, another cultural influence should be added to take them further away from the Black Templars. If I were to suggest something, I'd see if you couldn't have a collaboration with Demus Ragnok in the Firekeepers
4. Again, Germanic Knights is very Black Templary/Imperial Fisty. It's surprising that there are no current legions with an emphasis on walkers and terminators - that could be an interesting element. Otherwise, see point 3
5. Bull sacrifices were common enough in acient times, sometimes in droves of 100 ("Hecatombs"). My main concern is that every element of these Brazen Bulls is stepping on the toes of one of the other legions in a major way - greek/pontus influences? Check. Bull's Horns formation? Predators have that iirc. Sacrifices? Eagle Warriors have you covered...
6. Knightly legion: see 3 and 4. Otherwise, Simison has already said his piece.
7. The Devoured to sound rather original. We do already have 3 asian legions, and the Predators have some jungle elements, no? I don't know if we have Urban warfare covered though? What about the assassin influences (Though I'm not personnally sure if that's not too close to RG and AL)?
8. Borg marines could be stepping on the Iron Hands? It depends how it's done...

What about RikuEru's idea? I didn't notice if he stepped down?

 

I have to admit, I've seen several people mention how they haven't read much about the project and just post up their ideas... Which are extremely similar to ideas we already have. Now, I know that there's a bit of a jungle of information at the moment, but we do have a "here to start" thread that is easy enough to read, and would avoid having duplicates from the word go. --- Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and join the project: just be prepared in this case to join another person's efforts in creating a legion, rather then your own.

 

What else is missing? Renessaince, Spanish / Portuguese, western America (Cowboys) and medieval knights, correct?

In very excited of how this election will end as nearly every participant covers one of the missing cultures / themes. http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

What is missing? A huge chunk of other cultures! Mesopotamians (Assyrians, Babylonians...), many nomadic peoples (bedouins, scythians... Dothraki ^^...), Phoenicians/Carthaginians, Scottish Highlanders (though Sigismund's managed to nab a lot of celtic/anglo-saxon themes), English longbowmen/footknights/redcoats/2nd world war pilots (since simison focuses on the tank aspects of the germans in the 2nd world war), french musketeers (not just the Dumas version). The list could go on. EDIT: Cant' BELIEVE I forgot the Jannissaries and the Ottomans...
Listen, look at the unique units from the Age of Empire Series (yes, even Age of Mythology) and from the Total War Series, especially Medieval II...

 

Also, you talk about the lack of Medieval Knights? We may not have them in the BotL, but at least the germanic knights are very well represented. How about the some french gendarmes or the Livonian Order? How about the Livonian Order, and the Kalmar Union, who would make an awesome foil to the Warbringers and the Godslayers? Venitian and Genovese crossbowmen, protecting their mercantile interests? Someone mentioned how it would be difficult to do the spaniards and portuguese with less of a maritime aspect? What about the tercios?

 

There is a wealth of inspiration out there, and GW and this project have barely scratched the surface - if we can't find anything just yet, we have to dig a bit deeper, and not be afraid to mix-n-match.

 

 

 

 

Obviously, writing all this down has given me some ideas ^^ Do you mind if I try and pitch a bit of an idea, see if there's anything that sticks? Still not aiming on taking control of it personally, but if there can be some inspiration... Disclaimer-there may be a slight English bias, and SanguiniusReborn might recognise some concepts similar to the chapter he has in the Liber Cluster...

Edited November 1, 2016 by Lord Thørn

[Sete]

Actually I was going for Inquisition/Exorcists.

Judging, finding and reserching old lore,Hexagrammic,and more radically Pentagramic Wards.

Monastic Knightly, cause I picture dudes in robes going over old tomes trying to find old secrets.

Flamers, cause it's what the Inquisition always used, flames to purify the wicked, and Greatswords cause a sword with a Pentagramic ward on it, holding a daemon inside to eat the soul of the psyker, with the risk of eating the bearer soul aswell is awesome. In my opinion.

The fact that the universe has a lot of psykers kinda helps.

But every time I post burning a Witch it always goes to Black Templars. :/

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sete

[Doctor Perils]

Actually I was going for Inquisition/Exorcists.

Judging, finding and reserching old lore,Hexagrammic,and more radically Pentagramic Wards.

The fact that the universe has a lot of psykers kinda helps.

But every time I post burning a Witch it always goes to Black Templars. :/

In that case, I'd try and move away from too many mentions of "Knights", or you may fall into the trap of Grey Knighty-ness, minus the psykeryness... In any case, we have the Sisters of Silence, four pariah legions and two witchhunting non-pariah legions - though your approach definitely sounds like an original method for hunting witches, I think that front is covered rather well already. If you don't think that the Fire Keepers would be a good home to your ideas, what about the Predators? They already have a bit more of a "fight fire with fire" vibe to them in regards of witchhunting - you might be able to regard the Predators as Radicals, and the Fire Keepers as Puritans in the Inquisition sense?

 

I don't know really ^_^ I'm not really trying to shoot your (or anyone's) ideas down, I'm just trying to give my first impressions about what I have read of those suggestions.

[Kelborn]

When in doubt, ask Thorn.

 

Jeez what a post.

 

And yeah, you're right. There are way more cultures that weren't covered. Only had those in mind I'm comfortable with. ;)

 

Predators have jungles on their homeworld, that's all. Witch hunting is not that important as in my initial demon hunter esque concept.

Yes, they are fighting cults and demons during the insurrection before flipping sides but it's not like Illidan anymore. Rather than Arthas. ^^

[Sete]

No worries I understand what you mean.

It my best way to explain the theme probably not the best one.

But monastic Knightly takes you to DA, and that's a bit the look Im going for.

Secluded, paranoid, anti social. Like the Primarch.

Its a pitch probably not the best one I know xD

But there is some stuff here that I might use for a DiY chapter.

Now I'm just thinking on how to put a Tercio on a SM Legion lol

I really don't want to interfere with anyone's work.

I just read the overall plot, avoided getting into the legions so it would not influence my ideas. If any of them likes an idea I had fell free to use it on a Legion that already exists.

This is a theme I like, daemon hunting, witch hunting with no extra powers, just the available tools.

 

I still have my Empire to kick some ass later on :P

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sete

[Doctor Perils]

When in doubt, ask Thorn.

 

Jeez what a post.

 

And yeah, you're right. There are way more cultures that weren't covered. Only had those in mind I'm comfortable with. http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif

 

Predators have jungles on their homeworld, that's all. Witch hunting is not that important as in my initial demon hunter esque concept.

Yes, they are fighting cults and demons during the insurrection before flipping sides but it's not like Illidan anymore. Rather than Arthas. ^^

 

 

No worries I understand what you mean.

It my best way to explain the theme probably not the best one.

But monastic Knightly takes you to DA, and that's a bit the look Im going for.

Secluded, paranoid, anti social. Like the Primarch.

Its a pitch probably not the best one I know xD

But there is some stuff here that I might use for a DiY chapter.

Now I'm just thinking on how to put a Tercio on a SM Legion lol

I really don't want to interfere with anyone's work.

I just read the overall plot, avoided getting into the legions so it would not influence my ideas. If any of them likes an idea I had fell free to use it on a Legion that already exists.

This is a theme I like, daemon hunting, witch hunting with no extra powers, just the available tools.

 

I still have my Empire to kick some ass later on http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

Okay, seeing Kelborn's post, it seems there may be a bit more of a possible witch-hunting post.

 

For Tercios in a Space Marine legion, it can be as simple as mixing a despoiler and a tactical/support squad, or as complex as giving the despoilers rules for a pike and rules to stick units together.

[simison]

Okay, I'm catching up on this page by page. This are my responses to page 5.

 

Hey sim, the Wardens of Light have only gaelic names. Their culture stays south east asian. indonesian, Malaysi, vietnam. Focus, battle meditation. Martial arts. Flexible tactics to adapt to the enemy.

 

You know Wuxia movies? Then you know the wardens

 

It's something I've struggled with your legion because I don't see a lot of the culture. Take the Crimson Lions as example, Greek names with Anglo-Saxon barbarian style. Now, the Lions act a lot like Anglo-Saxons, Hectarion wears a pelt for a quick example. Beyond the emphasis on the tonfa and eastern martial arts, I don't see how the Wardens of Light demonstrate an Eastern culture as opposed to Irish warriors who use Eastern styles. In fact, one of your legion's main themes is based off the Grey Wardens, a Western-based knighthood of sorts. The armour emphasis is on the bling not on any attachment to Eastern aesthetics, unlike the color coding of the Warriors of Peace or the subtle Samurai looks of the Lightning Bearers.

 

Do you see why I'm so confused when it comes to the Warden of Lights' warrior culture? It seems more like a mix of several ideas as opposed to one source, which isn't bad, the Halcyon Wardens feature several sources, along with the Void Eagles. It's just confusing when you insist they are from one warrior culture, but you have at least two directly represented.

 

 

 

Oh holy moly, you are serious. And you are not the first person to suggest that idea to me. .... *glances at everybody else* thoughts?

Well, in canon the views of the Emperor, beloved of all, are "oh Malcador, you crack me up." I'm inclined to leave that tin of worms with the lid on.

I'm gonna confess a personal bias; I'm wary of adding more Loyalists to the mix. Icarion has only 8 Legions to call upon if we don't have another Traitor Legion, and two of those are very small indeed - Grave Stalkers and Warriors of Peace. So, if people are willing to take their Legions in a disloyal direction, that'd be handy.

 

 

You make a logical argument. Alright, let's take the Loyalist option off the table. That leaves Traitor, Renegade, or Suzerainty.

Edited November 1, 2016 by simison

[simison]

Everything on this page before Thorn's massive post.

 

What else is missing? 

In very excited of how this election will end as nearly every participant covers one of the missing cultures / themes. http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

And so that it won't be forgotten, what about Sangis offer? http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

 

I once wrote down a list of potential warrior cultures and strategic tendencies. There's a lot out there. 

 

I thought his offer was on the table for someone else to develop...

 

 

@sim: I'm guessing that even if I had been awake enough to notice and object it wouldn't have counted?(seeing as I'm hardly disinterested)

 

Not really. The actual votes that would've counted would have been from Sete and the Xenos. The Legionnaire ideas were supposed to be our back-ups in case we didn't get enough responses. Well, we didn't have a problem with lack of response.

 

 

We need Sangi to elaborate on what will make his Legion unique.

Apologies for the brief silence on my part, but I have good news! Kelborn, Grifftober and I have formed a Triumvirate of sorts and are working to develop a techie legion together, so expect to hear more on that soon! http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

 

 

How many techie legions do we have?

 

A theme can always be adapted. Feel free to just use "Conquistadors in space" as a jumping-off point.

What I'd really like to see is an indication of where any Legion would fit into the Insurrection.

 

A fair question. What would be specific indicators you're looking for?

Edited November 1, 2016 by simison

[simison]

"What about RikuEru's idea? I didn't notice if he stepped down?"

 

I'm not sure what happened to him. We effectively shot down his first idea, and then he went dark. 

 

Also, yes, I've noticed a couple of calls for the Jackels to essentially be allowed to die out. Generalripphook, how do you respond? Are you willing to create your own legion entry?

 

I'm caught up, I think. Did I leave anything unaddressed?

[Kelborn]

There is just one tech legion remaining on which we three are working on.

 

As it stands, we already got quite a few key facts discussed.

 

Current fate: joining the Suzerainty

Edited November 1, 2016 by Kelborn

[Skalpynock]

As an aside, what were the Jackals involved in? Fighting the Qarith, attacking the Void Eagles on the Day of Revelation, deeply opposing the Warbringers at the Prosecution, and seceding from all at the 2/3 mark of the Insurrection to form their own kingdom, their primarch still alive by M41.

 

I like the Devoured in that role, being not fundamentally different from the Qarith, and maintaining a facade at the Baal prosecution to avoid being found out about, then leaving all sides when the Traitors meddle with the Warp, and the Suzerainty goes all "No Xeno no Warp only Humanity and Posthumanity"

[simison]

I'll check with Nate to see if he is okay with switching allegiances, but if we go through with his legion, we could create a rivalry between his siege breakers and the Fire Keepers.

[Doctor Perils]

So, can I still pitch an idea seed, even if I don't actually lead them? These guys could be quite different as they'd have a bit of a focus on commerce and trade, and not just on fighting - because of that, they'd be an interesting foil to the void eagles as well :)