b1soul Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 30K Cthonians lived in dilapidated tunnels...and formed cannibalistic and/or head-hunting gangs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Psycho indoctrination works better on some better than others I suppose Cthonia sure is a hell-hole Exact hell-hole to provide amazing candidates for SM recruitment. Cthonia was urban on top, but most of the population lived in the exhausted mines that had more or less hollowed out the planet. Which they continue to hollow out '30K Cthonians lived in dilapidated tunnels...and formed cannibalistic and/or head-hunting gangs' - great environment to create more Severians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellath Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I would love to see Kurze interact with some of his brothers in different ways than those we have seen so far (i.e. Dorn, Sanguinius and Vulkan being horrified by his methods). I'd be curious to see how other Prinarchs, like Mortarion, Alpharius and even Russ would work alongside the Night Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I would love to see Kurze interact with some of his brothers in different ways than those we have seen so far (i.e. Dorn, Sanguinius and Vulkan being horrified by his methods). I would like to see how other Prinarchs, like Mortarion, Alpharius and even Russ would work alongside the Night Lords. I would have liked to see that. Or how Russ has worked with Alpharius. What a joyful ride it would have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I would love to see Kurze interact with some of his brothers in different ways than those we have seen so far (i.e. Dorn, Sanguinius and Vulkan being horrified by his methods). I'd be curious to see how other Prinarchs, like Mortarion, Alpharius and even Russ would work alongside the Night Lords. kurze's time with fulgrim has my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I would love to see Kurze interact with some of his brothers in different ways than those we have seen so far (i.e. Dorn, Sanguinius and Vulkan being horrified by his methods). I'd be curious to see how other Prinarchs, like Mortarion, Alpharius and even Russ would work alongside the Night Lords. kurze's time with fulgrim has my vote I think in that case - it would be Curze who will simply run away. He would be able to stand all this grandeur and hubris, lol Still my vote for the Russ and Alpharius during a campaign. With Wolves charging headlong into the AL trap planned for the enemy. And Alpharius then asking - why Russ and his sons is so stupid as to not see the trap - with further Russ wet leopard growl and duel being called. And Alpharius, being Alpharius - simply obliterating the place from the orbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellath Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017   I would love to see Kurze interact with some of his brothers in different ways than those we have seen so far (i.e. Dorn, Sanguinius and Vulkan being horrified by his methods). I'd be curious to see how other Prinarchs, like Mortarion, Alpharius and even Russ would work alongside the Night Lords. kurze's time with fulgrim has my vote  I think in that case - it would be Curze who will simply run away. He would be able to stand all this grandeur and hubris, lol   That's exactly what would make it a really interesting read. Konrad considered Fulgrim his closer brother until the later betrayed his confidence by telling Dorn about his premonitions. How could someone like Curze befriend Fulgrim in the first place is something I find quite puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think Fulgrim might have a good segregation of interpersonal and professional skills. Â Moreover, it affords Fulgrim a degree of room to develop as a character- starting out actually very tolerable and even-keeled, with insight and tolerance, but that's driven evermore to perfectionism. Â That sort of thing might start out as an odd quirk Kurze can tolerate or even find endearing, but that as time progresses (and visions evolve in scope/context), it could be more and more of a wedge or obstacle between them. Â It's a fascinating bit, and relies on Primarchs not being a constant character who does thing, but who meaningfully interacts with the world too. They change it more than most, but are still changed themselves. Â I'd love to see these bits too: - Corax & Horus - Horus & Russ (as the first two) - Horus & Alpharius - the Angron/Perturabo buddy cop/odd-couple story tangentially implied in Aurelian - Mortarion's third of the Ferrus/Vulkan/Mortarion stories a la Feat of Iron & Promethean Sun (but not as bolterporny) Â I'd actually be very happy to read more pre-Primarch Great Crusade stories too - as those are culturally rather interesting to explore. (Salamanders, especially for my interests - but I'm sure the vast bulk of Legions in the earliest days would be yield excellent story opportunities.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Considering Kurze has visions of how each Primarch died when he first met them I am sure that would put a twist on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think Fulgrim might have a good segregation of interpersonal and professional skills. Â Moreover, it affords Fulgrim a degree of room to develop as a character- starting out actually very tolerable and even-keeled, with insight and tolerance, but that's driven evermore to perfectionism. Â That sort of thing might start out as an odd quirk Kurze can tolerate or even find endearing, but that as time progresses (and visions evolve in scope/context), it could be more and more of a wedge or obstacle between them. Â It's a fascinating bit, and relies on Primarchs not being a constant character who does thing, but who meaningfully interacts with the world too. They change it more than most, but are still changed themselves. Â I'd love to see these bits too: - Corax & Horus - Horus & Russ (as the first two) - Horus & Alpharius - the Angron/Perturabo buddy cop/odd-couple story tangentially implied in Aurelian - Mortarion's third of the Ferrus/Vulkan/Mortarion stories a la Feat of Iron & Promethean Sun (but not as bolterporny) Â I'd actually be very happy to read more pre-Primarch Great Crusade stories too - as those are culturally rather interesting to explore. (Salamanders, especially for my interests - but I'm sure the vast bulk of Legions in the earliest days would be yield excellent story opportunities.) Â nicely said. i think what makes it interesting is that it's such an unlikely pairing. and i think there needs to be some element of genuine connection between the two primarchs (that eventually sours) to really explore that to its fullest. Â the fulgrim we met in the BL books would turn likely his nose up at someone like kurze, but what if that wasn't always the case? what if fulgrim previously saw potential everywhere? potential that could be perfected. to use a (kinda poor) irl example, zyzz was very popular in bodybuilding circles not just for his physique but also his attitude: he refused to look down on anyone for their body shape. his public explanation was that everyone starts somewhere and that he wanted to help rather than bully. if fulgrim starts from a place of compassion, i think that's far more engaging. it can still be arrogant that he takes curze on as "a project" to perfect, but driven by mostly good intentions. it could even be this failed interaction with his brother that leads him to becoming the judgemental and less forgiving primarch we know. Â as for kurze? again, irl, it's possible for some anti-social personalities secretly harbour an attraction or respect for people like fulgrim (beautiful, mainstream acceptance, high achiever etc). it might manifest itself as disgust or jealousy, but deep down it can be "a wish". i think it would be great to explore a kurze who is initially open to new ways of life, who sees fulgrim as a lifeline of sorts...but ultimately he's too broken to take it. Â i get the feeling the original IA tried to do make a bit of a chaos daisy chain by linking all the fallen primarchs together pre corruption (just hanging out with each other perverted the lot of them. hanging out is a sin), but a more human and nuanced take would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017    I would love to see Kurze interact with some of his brothers in different ways than those we have seen so far (i.e. Dorn, Sanguinius and Vulkan being horrified by his methods). I'd be curious to see how other Prinarchs, like Mortarion, Alpharius and even Russ would work alongside the Night Lords. kurze's time with fulgrim has my vote  I think in that case - it would be Curze who will simply run away. He would be able to stand all this grandeur and hubris, lol   That's exactly what would make it a really interesting read. Konrad considered Fulgrim his closer brother until the later betrayed his confidence by telling Dorn about his premonitions. How could someone like Curze befriend Fulgrim in the first place is something I find quite puzzling.  Indeed, lol.   I think Fulgrim might have a good segregation of interpersonal and professional skills.  Moreover, it affords Fulgrim a degree of room to develop as a character- starting out actually very tolerable and even-keeled, with insight and tolerance, but that's driven evermore to perfectionism.  That sort of thing might start out as an odd quirk Kurze can tolerate or even find endearing, but that as time progresses (and visions evolve in scope/context), it could be more and more of a wedge or obstacle between them.  It's a fascinating bit, and relies on Primarchs not being a constant character who does thing, but who meaningfully interacts with the world too. They change it more than most, but are still changed themselves.  I'd love to see these bits too: - Corax & Horus - Horus & Russ (as the first two) - Horus & Alpharius - the Angron/Perturabo buddy cop/odd-couple story tangentially implied in Aurelian - Mortarion's third of the Ferrus/Vulkan/Mortarion stories a la Feat of Iron & Promethean Sun (but not as bolterporny)  I'd actually be very happy to read more pre-Primarch Great Crusade stories too - as those are culturally rather interesting to explore. (Salamanders, especially for my interests - but I'm sure the vast bulk of Legions in the earliest days would be yield excellent story opportunities.) I'd love to see these bits too: - Corax & Horus - Horus & Alpharius yes and yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashur Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 If Manus gets a book by Guymer. I think he will have a very dwarfish attitude. Quick to anger, rush in, hammer stuff, walk away. His finale for Gotrek and Felix was pretty good.  That might actually be a step-up. More compeling that the Iron Hand primarch we have been shown so far.  Ferrus Manus got the shorthand of the stick in the HH serie. Specially in Fulgrim. A boastful angry robot who dies to prove that :cuss just got real and little else. Its time to give him a personality.  Mixing the archetypical dwarf character with his reputation as one of the best generals of the crusade from the forgeworld books could make him more unique amongst his brothers.  In any case, I hope the primarch serie rehabilitates Ferrus Manus because he is one of those who need it the most. Perhaps THE one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Sadly my mental image of classic dwarves is intermingled with Discworld, so I'm picturing a beardy Ferrus who lusts after gold and can match Russ pint for pint. Â Ironically, the alt-Heresy project I'm part of has a master smith Primarch whose aesthetic is kinda Dwarfish. Expo for the height Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 FW Massacre makes a good attempt to rehabilitate Ferrus  He's one of the most senior primarchs. It's implied that the initial primarch discovery order may have been Horus, Russ, Ferrus...  He seems to be a master of mechanised, total warfare, i.e. when a UM force's decapitating strike fails to cow a recaltritrant human empire, Ferrus steps in and absolutely smashes them with overwhelming armoured force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Sounds good. Really wish FW ebooks were a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I love the IH exemplary battle. For Ferrus being a good general (and his decent overall depiction) and fighting At-Ats. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 Ferrus is unsubtle and headstrong...but he comes across as very competent in Massacre  In BL, he generally comes across as an angry idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 He does get one moment of looking sensible in Fulgrim. But the idea that a Gloriana has to shield a Stormbird makes you wonder just how exposed Fulgrim had got himself, and kinda spoils the drama by being implausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 If Manus gets a book by Guymer. I think he will have a very dwarfish attitude. Quick to anger, rush in, hammer stuff, walk away. His finale for Gotrek and Felix was pretty good. That might actually be a step-up. More compeling that the Iron Hand primarch we have been shown so far. Ferrus Manus got the shorthand of the stick in the HH serie. Specially in Fulgrim. A boastful angry robot who dies to prove that just got real and little else. Its time to give him a personality. Mixing the archetypical dwarf character with his reputation as one of the best generals of the crusade from the forgeworld books could make him more unique amongst his brothers. In any case, I hope the primarch serie rehabilitates Ferrus Manus because he is one of those who need it the most. Perhaps THE one. I agree. Of all the backstory novels I am most interested in (besides my own Sanguinius-Lion-Khan leanings), it's Ferrus. To echo your and many others' thoughts, Ferrus is the one who most needs a backstory. Parts of the backstory I am most intrigued by: -bro-mance with Fulgrim: it's taken for granted that they were super-bros that fell apart. Show us why they were so close and how that friendship formed, lasted, survived trials and tribulations, and then frayed to the point of the fatal falling out -generalship: I've stated it elsewhere, but the fact that Ferrus was given command of seven legions at Isstvaan is one of the most double-take inducing moments of the entire HH series...yet it gets glossed over without extrapolation. I mean, SEVEN legions is the greatest concentration of Astartes power since Ullanor, and Ullanor was commanded by the Emperor himself. The fact that it's a given without protest or jockeying from his brothers (well, besides the fact that four of them were secretly traitors) is another huge moment that demands exploration. It seems like the Primarchs bicker about the cutlery whenever they get together, so for there to be minimal if any protest about who gets overarching command of the 2nd greatest Astartes force ever assembled is pretty telling. I want to know why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Well, as you say...only Vulkan and Corax were truly loyal  ...but of the secret Traitors, Perturabo, Curze, Lorgar, Alpharius...I think all had deferred to Ferrus in the past (with Alpharius really not getting along with him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashur Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017   -bro-mance with Fulgrim: it's taken for granted that they were super-bros that fell apart. Show us why they were so close and how that friendship formed, lasted, survived trials and tribulations, and then frayed to the point of the fatal falling out  -generalship: I've stated it elsewhere, but the fact that Ferrus was given command of seven legions at Isstvaan is one of the most double-take inducing moments of the entire HH series...yet it gets glossed over without extrapolation. I mean, SEVEN legions is the greatest concentration of Astartes power since Ullanor, and Ullanor was commanded by the Emperor himself. The fact that it's a given without protest or jockeying from his brothers (well, besides the fact that four of them were secretly traitors) is another huge moment that demands exploration. It seems like the Primarchs bicker about the cutlery whenever they get together, so for there to be minimal if any protest about who gets overarching command of the 2nd greatest Astartes force ever assembled is pretty telling. I want to know why!    Well said. Those are the two sides of Ferrus Manus that need space in the Heresy serie. And perhaps mix it with another primarch. One he hasn't been seen with so far. The primarch serie is a great oportunity to explore relashionships between primarchs that most likely will never meet eachother during the heresy.  I even wonder if the Ferrus Manus book couldn't be told from the point of view of another primarch, who remembers his brother and how his death hit them all. Like the small scene in Fear to Tread were Guilliman mourns him. We get a very good small picture of what he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I'm so late to this party. I was going to say what I thought the most interesting thing about Curze was, but it's already been mentioned a few times - the fact that he goes to Fulgrim when he's in his darkest hour, and can barely understand what's happening to him. There's a story there, and I hope it's great.  The problem with the rest of the Curze stuff on Nostramo is that most of it was said in Prince of Crows and re-stating it "just because" would feel a bit lame. He was always the primarch with the home world backstory already revealed in the most detail. We've had it in the Index Astartes article in more detail than most primarchs, then in Lord of the Night, then in The Night Lords Trilogy, and then again in Prince of Crows, in the Horus Heresy series itself.  There's only so much to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 I'm a little worried now...ADB not doing the Curze entry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I think back story is less important than character. These novellas are a canvass to explore the heart and mind of the primarchs. When and where they are set should be secondary to revealing and humanising these creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Totally agree with you, Brother Captain Kezef.  This series should be a chance of characterization in another setting than the HH. It should give insight of how the Primarchs were before everything went wrong.  That's why I'd like to see - Lorgar on Colchis or his reformation of the Imperial Heralds - Curze & Fulgrim; a decent portrait of Ferrus - Vulkans years at the Emperor's side (think that he stayed the longest with him) - the beginning of Dorns & Perturabos feud - Corax at the battle of Gate 42 as it would include Arkhas Fal and I'd love to read something about him, maybe done by RobMac? ^^ - Alpharius Omegon & Horus - Sanguinius joining the GC and discovering the Red Thirst, etc. - Horus as warmaster? or at the side of the Emperor to deepen their relation? - Angron on his homeworld / during the arrival of the Emperor? - Jaghatai founding the Librarium alongside Sangi and Magnus or during the GC to deepen his wild card role in relation to his brothers; maybe a battle alongside another, more established Legion - Lion, don't know what I'd like to see here - Mortarion and Fulgrim - don't know; was never interested in both of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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