Upcoming Primarch Novellas - Your Expectations

[Jareddm]

 

Indefragable, Mortarion features in Scars and then heavily in Path of Heaven. He's also got a short called Daemonic often. All well written, and they provide an excellent insight into his character.

Ah ok. I read Scars, but have not made it to Path yet. 

I highly recommend reading Daemonology, in the "War Without End" anthology, as there's quite a few references to its events in Path of Heaven.  Plus it bridges the two novels as well as Mortarion's role in Vengeful Spirit quite nicely.

[Marshal Loss]

To add to that list, read Blackshield, another short story by the always excellent Chris Wraight. While Mortarion does not feature directly, the main character is a Deathshroud Terminator who has left the Legion because of Mortarion's sorcerous behaviour in Vengeful Spirit. It will help add a little bit of an outside view on how Mortarion's relationship with the warp is affecting his Legion.

[Tymell]

HH Weekender shows artwork for Fulgrim, and Josh Reynolds is the author. I haven't read it myself, but I've heard good things about his Fabius book, so I'm hopeful

This also calls to mind one thing I'm definitely hoping for from the traitor Primarch books: not too much foreshadowing. While some Primarchs were always damaged and potentially treacherous, others had much more of a fall from grace. I don't want their books to be nothing but foreshadowing for what comes later, to me that would cheapen their eventual fall as well as the Primarchs series itself, making it and the Great Crusade seem like just a glorified prologue. For those like Fulgrim, Horus, Magnus and Lorgar, I feel like we see enough of their darker sides in the main HH series, and for this, I want to see the brighter times before that.

[DarkChaplain]

Lorgar we'll definitely see foreshadowing for. There's no way around it when your daddy is Kor Phaeron and worshipping the old gods, and Erebus is with you as well. They knew long before Lorgar did what was going on, and since his book takes things back to the purge on their home planet, there's no way around it.

 

Otherwise, I think Fulgrim will also show his narcissism and all, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some section involving Ferrus there too. They were best buds, and seeing their relationship pre-taint would be neat and while not really foreshadow things in my mind, reinforce the tragedies of what's to come.

[Tymell]

Of course, I've no objection to some, I just don't want it to feel like that's all the books are there for. With many of the traitors we've already seen them falling in other stories anyway, what I want is something to make those falls all the more poignant.

 

Though with Perturabo I'm just looking forward to them finally covering Olympia :D

[Sandlemad]

HH Weekender shows artwork for Fulgrim, and Josh Reynolds is the author. I haven't read it myself, but I've heard good things about his Fabius book, so I'm hopeful

This also calls to mind one thing I'm definitely hoping for from the traitor Primarch books: not too much foreshadowing. While some Primarchs were always damaged and potentially treacherous, others had much more of a fall from grace. I don't want their books to be nothing but foreshadowing for what comes later, to me that would cheapen their eventual fall as well as the Primarchs series itself, making it and the Great Crusade seem like just a glorified prologue. For those like Fulgrim, Horus, Magnus and Lorgar, I feel like we see enough of their darker sides in the main HH series, and for this, I want to see the brighter times before that.

This, exactly. For Fulgrim in particular, he's seen as distinctly loathsome by so many fans - and rightly so - but once he was one of the brightest stars among the primarchs. In particular there was a bit in Betrayal where the imperial court was scornful of the idea of recruiting for astartes from Chemosian factory workers but Fulgrim, as a prince of the imperium, overruled them because everyone deserves the right to strive for perfection.

We see enough deconstructions of that IIIrd legion ideal often enough, as early as Horus Rising, and it did lead down some dark paths but there's still something admirable in that idea of striving self-improvement. Like in Khârn: Eater of Worlds, where some WE laugh at an EC legionary, calling him a stuck up noble. The EC stares back and makes an offhand comment about how he was born in a gutter on Chemos but is now a swordmaster wearing purple and gold. As far as he's concerned, he is a success story.

If Josh Reynolds can get that gracious aspiration to self-betterment across with Fulgrim - and from Fabius Bile: Primogenitor, I think he's got the subtlety of touch to do so - then we'll be on target for a primarch novella that offers something not already seen in the main HH series.

[Taliesin]

Agreed with those sentiments on what the Fulgrim novel should be like, my feelings exactly.

 

Now question is, does Fulgrim come out in the Fall before Guymer's Ferrus novel? The fact that it has a cover already suggests so, but then we've not heard about this one at all. I was kind of more interested in the Ferrus one.

 

I guess the chance that this is another book in the HH numbered series instead, is pretty slim. The cover style ( nice btw) matches that of Lorgar, Perturabo.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Magnus was surprisingly good. 

[b1soul]

I am glad to hear that. What did you like most about Magnus?

[mc warhammer]

HH Weekender shows artwork for Fulgrim, and Josh Reynolds is the author. I haven't read it myself, but I've heard good things about his Fabius book, so I'm hopeful

This also calls to mind one thing I'm definitely hoping for from the traitor Primarch books: not too much foreshadowing. While some Primarchs were always damaged and potentially treacherous, others had much more of a fall from grace. I don't want their books to be nothing but foreshadowing for what comes later, to me that would cheapen their eventual fall as well as the Primarchs series itself, making it and the Great Crusade seem like just a glorified prologue. For those like Fulgrim, Horus, Magnus and Lorgar, I feel like we see enough of their darker sides in the main HH series, and for this, I want to see the brighter times before that.

This, exactly. For Fulgrim in particular, he's seen as distinctly loathsome by so many fans - and rightly so - but once he was one of the brightest stars among the primarchs. In particular there was a bit in Betrayal where the imperial court was scornful of the idea of recruiting for astartes from Chemosian factory workers but Fulgrim, as a prince of the imperium, overruled them because everyone deserves the right to strive for perfection.

We see enough deconstructions of that IIIrd legion ideal often enough, as early as Horus Rising, and it did lead down some dark paths but there's still something admirable in that idea of striving self-improvement. Like in Khârn: Eater of Worlds, where some WE laugh at an EC legionary, calling him a stuck up noble. The EC stares back and makes an offhand comment about how he was born in a gutter on Chemos but is now a swordmaster wearing purple and gold. As far as he's concerned, he is a success story.

If Josh Reynolds can get that gracious aspiration to self-betterment across with Fulgrim - and from Fabius Bile: Primogenitor, I think he's got the subtlety of touch to do so - then we'll be on target for a primarch novella that offers something not already seen in the main HH series.

what you guys have said x 1000

i felt a bit beaten over the head with fulgrim's flaws from the outset, pretty much from his first appearances in FG. i'd like to see more of the reasons why he was one of the stars amongst the primarchs, the good that must have come with the bad. my impression from the IA article was that he was held in the same high regard as dorn, guilliman and horus and that's what made his fall particluarly interesting, as opposed to the more inevitable ones like curze and angron.

i thought abnett did portray that with fulgrim (briefly) in PB. he also touched on the "dual nature" of the III legion and primarch written about in HR (embodied by saul tarvitz and lucius) and that would be interesting to explore.

the EC you mention from Khârn: Eater of Worlds reminds me of the description of fulgrim originally living in spartan quarters before being found by the big E; which implies his taste for opulence developed during the great crusade

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I am glad to hear that. What did you like most about Magnus?

 

What I enjoyed the most was the portrayal of Perturabo. The fleshing out of his character was awesome, and seeing him...not optimistic, but not the soul crushing portrayal of him I've built in my mind so far. It connects with his later portrayal in Angel Extermunatis  and make it less out of place.

 

Magnus was pretty much as I expected (sadly?)

[HeritorA]

Magnus was surprisingly good. 

Indeed it was - it was good, but not amazing.

Magnus LE is an amazing book from the point of shining cover, red dusty pages and good box.

Magnus LE is a good book from the point of prose and story, but I can't call it great.

McNeil had some truly magnificent moments in the novel - covered in adventures and human spirit, logistics and kindling flames of knowledge.

But eventually it does not give you anything except some additional 'fillerish' view on Magnus, Thousand Sons Legion Pre-Heresy and Iron Warriors Legion.

There are some inconsistencies that made in the book - especially with the Thousand Sons Legion.

Maybe I'm just tired of fillers. Maybe I do not invest so much emotions in the characters I had so much knowledge about already and then I know how they will fare in the future and end up eventually.

But - that's a TS Legion much earlier before the 'TS' novel. Ahriman character is a simple Astartes whose ability was just discovered by Magnus.

And they are soooo naive that I can't take it seriously. An interesting thought is that none of them remember several months time after Magnus healed them from the sickness.

Plus we haven't seen the real routes of Magnus/Perturabo friendship. It's popup right from the start.

Perturabo on the other hand seems very naive, agonisingly loyal to the Emperor (lol) but with that cruel streak that will blossom from Davin and further on.

Also McNeil continue to use his characters from W40k 'Ultramarines/Storm of Iron' novels. For example we again had Forrix almost on the first line etc.

In general it's a very complicated book - it is good, but I can't call it awesome.

[Taliesin]

 

 

i felt a bit beaten over the head with fulgrim's flaws from the outset, pretty much from his first appearances in FG. i'd like to see more of the reasons why he was one of the stars amongst the primarchs, the good that must have come with the bad. my impression from the IA article was that he was held in the same high regard as dorn, guilliman and horus and that's what made his fall particluarly interesting, as opposed to the more inevitable ones like curze and angron.

 

 

 

 IA article?

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

i felt a bit beaten over the head with fulgrim's flaws from the outset, pretty much from his first appearances in FG. i'd like to see more of the reasons why he was one of the stars amongst the primarchs, the good that must have come with the bad. my impression from the IA article was that he was held in the same high regard as dorn, guilliman and horus and that's what made his fall particluarly interesting, as opposed to the more inevitable ones like curze and angron.

 

 

 

 IA article?

 

seems so.

[G_R_H]

Both the lion and Perturabo I really enjoyed, as for Perturabo being overtly loyal, and kiss ass. Don't forget this is the beginning of the crusade, 200 hundred years of being in meat grinders can colour a view...

[mc warhammer]

 

 

 

i felt a bit beaten over the head with fulgrim's flaws from the outset, pretty much from his first appearances in FG. i'd like to see more of the reasons why he was one of the stars amongst the primarchs, the good that must have come with the bad. my impression from the IA article was that he was held in the same high regard as dorn, guilliman and horus and that's what made his fall particluarly interesting, as opposed to the more inevitable ones like curze and angron.

 

 

 

 IA article?

 

 

 

sorry, index astartes for emperor's children. i realise it's probably outdated/unreliable, but there were certain elements of it that i liked and preferred to the eventual HH depiction 

[bluntblade]

The Luna Wolves regarded the Emperor's Children as pretty much the finest Legion they ever served with, prior to Murder. So I think their rep from IA is still canon

[Indefragable]

It would be cool to see Fulgrim and the III Legion while they are on the messy road to perfection. Most of the HH series shows them sort of after they've reached their peak and starting to get bored and/or cocky. It would be cool to see them in the "scraped knees" phase. An EC getting beaten in a duel by a Luna Wolf or something, and then while the Luna Wolf goes off drinking with the Space Wolves, the EC is sitting there in the training chamber day-in-day-out for years straight until they meat again and he is a master swordsman.

 

We are also so often told about the EC's perfection...it would be great to be shown it. For example, have a battle where they are fighting alongside the Luna Wolves and the ....I don't know, Iron Warriors? And compare-and-contrast how they all fight, showing how the EC stand out. 

 

It would also be great to see Fulgrim chumming it up with other Primarchs. Isn't he supposed to be among the more charismatic and likable of Primarchs? One of the few that pretty much everyone got along with besides Horus and Sanguinius? It would be great to see why. Maybe his stand-up routine and mixology skills are perfect as well? 

[mc warhammer]

The Luna Wolves regarded the Emperor's Children as pretty much the finest Legion they ever served with, prior to Murder. So I think their rep from IA is still canon

not so much just their rep, but the idea of a humble fulgrim pre reuniting with his "father". it would be interesting to think that his flaws developed afterwards directly or indirectly brought about by the great crusade and the IoM itself rather than he was just an accursed baby from the outset.

[Indefragable]

 

The Luna Wolves regarded the Emperor's Children as pretty much the finest Legion they ever served with, prior to Murder. So I think their rep from IA is still canon

not so much just their rep, but the idea of a humble fulgrim pre reuniting with his "father". it would be interesting to think that his flaws developed afterwards directly or indirectly brought about by the great crusade and the IoM itself rather than he was just an accursed baby from the outset.

In any well-developed character there are kernels of personality traits. Which blossom at what times is the magic of a character arc.

 

Fulgrim, for instance, could very well be the humble underdog who's quest for recognition and to show what he was made of led him to accomplish more than anyone though he or his Legion were capable of. But at what moment did things go to far? When did the watering stop the flower from blooming and start feeding the mold?

[b1soul]

I think the strength and weakness of the pre-Heresy EC is there near-obsession with perfection

 

We all know that perfection is impossible to actually attain...but the EC, like no other legion, strives to achieve their definition of "perfection"

 

In a way, Fulgrim and his legion have OCD. It's both a blessing, before the Heresy, and a curse, aftee Slaanesh steps in

[HeritorA]

Both the lion and Perturabo I really enjoyed, as for Perturabo being overtly loyal, and kiss ass. Don't forget this is the beginning of the crusade, 200 hundred years of being in meat grinders can colour a view...

As for the point of brotherly love and true friendship between Magnus and Perturabo - where it sprang on? It's just appeared out of blue.

Perturabo seems so naive/young and 'unholeric' that I can't take him seriously.

Absolutely ruined Primarch identity by McNeil.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Well, at this point Perturabo has only been in the Great Crusade for 4 years. He'll have that "goodwill" sapped by the many wars soon enough

 

The story also discusses two past instances where Magnus and Perturabo were chummy with each other, one sounding like an Indiana Jones adventure.

[HeritorA]

Well, at this point Perturabo has only been in the Great Crusade for 4 years. He'll have that "goodwill" sapped by the many wars soon enough

 

The story also discusses two past instances where Magnus and Perturabo were chummy with each other, one sounding like an Indiana Jones adventure.

Indeed it is so. As for the adventures

old terran colony ship

is like and ark story from the Indiana Jones, but istead of Godly powers it is

vengeful spirits

 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I actually meant the one where Magnus left before Perturabo, who then almost got obliterated in the explosion.

 

Sounded like something worth a short story atleast