++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Sception]

I usually don't do brigade at 2k, feels too cramped, but this looks sort of doable.  Anti-tank/big stuff might be a problem, with really only the terminators bringing a lot of high AP damage outside of melee.  I like the conceptual versatility of abaddon being able to either support the big cultist blobs or deep strike with termies and sorcerers, but I think in practice the cultists will need him to function, while the terminators are capable of operating on their own or with just one or two of the sorcerers in support, so abaddon will mostly get stuck on the ground.

 

How many noise marines would you have to drop to turn those five naked chosen into a missile/lascannon helbrute?

[thamier]

I usually don't do brigade at 2k, feels too cramped, but this looks sort of doable. Anti-tank/big stuff might be a problem, with really only the terminators bringing a lot of high AP damage outside of melee. I like the conceptual versatility of abaddon being able to either support the big cultist blobs or deep strike with termies and sorcerers, but I think in practice the cultists will need him to function, while the terminators are capable of operating on their own or with just one or two of the sorcerers in support, so abaddon will mostly get stuck on the ground.

 

How many noise marines would you have to drop to turn those five naked chosen into a missile/lascannon helbrute?

have tou reqd the strategem tide of traitors? i was thinking it would be a big part of the list hence the brigade for all the cp, the plan is to forcefeed oppoent the big 30 man cultists but before they are wiped use that strategem to move them to a tableegde(prefebly with a objetive nerarby obsec and all) and near abaddon and sorc at full strarting strengt (back to the 30 no matter losses) edit: unless wiped, but the optimal would be to have soaked so much it down to one model then power it back up again

 

 

gonna check the hellbrute if i remove 4 noise marines its 1988 p with the hellbrute included

[thamier]

anyone tested my list yet?

[Sception]

I don't have the cultists to do it, myself.  It also looks to be a little more hard edged than I've been going for in actual practice these days.  The list I'm currently building towards looks something like:

 

Daemon prince (sword, wings, slaanesh, warptime, maybe a warp bolter)

Terminator Sorcerer (axe, slaanesh, agonies, prescience, eye of night)

5 terminators (slaanesh, combi plasma, maybe a reaper, mix of melee weapons)

2x10 CSMs (dual plasma, power sword champs, mix of bolters & chainswords, maybe icons)

2x rhino (havoc launchers, maybe extra combi bolters)

10 cultists (rifles, maybe a flamer or stubber)

Heldrake (baleflamer)

Defiler (reaper, flail)

 

Total will come in at or just under 1500, depending on the final configuration of weapon options.

 

A smaller, more casual list, with a variety of models I like, mostly aiming to play 'bad guy' for younger players at the store.

[Closet Skeleton]

I started a WIP with some Black Legion stuff, link in my signature.

 

I think a brigade of chaos could work, but I'd go with 6 5 man chaos space marine units with bolt guns and half with lascannon half with plasma, then give the havoks heavy bolters and fill the compulsory fast attack and elites with budget helbrutes and melta and flamer bikers.

 

I have been using

 

Battalion

 

Daemon Prince, mark of slaanesh, intoxicating elixir, wings, sword and claws, unholy fortitude warlord trait

Exalted Champion, power maul, Black Mace (for command point).

 

10 Marines, 2 plasma guns, power fist and plasma pistol champion

10 marines, 2 heavy bolters, power axe champion

20 cultists, autoguns

 

3 bikers, 2 flamers, combi-flamer champion

 

5 havoks, 4 autocannons

 

rhino with two combi-bolters and havok launcher

 

rhino with two combi-bolters and havok launcher

 

Vanguard

Terminator Sorcerer, force stave and combi-bolter, prescience and warptime

 

8 Khorne berserkers, 2 with chain axe and plasma pistol, 5 with chain axe and chainswords, icon of wrath, power fist and plasma pistol champion

 

10 possessed, slaanesh, icon of excess

 

7 terminators, slaanesh, 2 combi-meltas, reaper autocannon, chainfist, 2 combi bolters, 2 power axes, 2 power mauls, 2 pairs of lightning claws

[thamier]

i have a question about my list, are the flamers worth it? or should i remove them in favor of something else?

[Sception]

What, in the big cultist units?  Yeah, IMO the flamers are worth it there, to punish charging units mostly.

[thamier]

What, in the big cultist units?  Yeah, IMO the flamers are worth it there, to punish charging units mostly.

the teo big cultists units are 30 cultist 3 flamers and 27 autoguns.

 

 

the reason i ask about flamers is with the new rule they cant really overwatch if the charging enemy keeps out of its range

[Sception]

if the charging unit is out of their range, they've trying a pretty risky charge, anyway.  If your opponent stops outside of 8 inches and in the process trades a sure-fire charge for less than a 50/50 shot, then IMO that's kind of a win, too.

[techsoldaten]

Thinking about our legion trait and how we may actually have the best one of all the legions.

 

Was discussing Night Lords and Alpha Legion, and it occurred to me our +1 morale may actually save more wounds than either of those.

 

Night Lords reduce leadership by 1 for each unit in six inches, up to -3. The trouble with that: you actually have to be within 6 inches for it to work, and you have to do enough wounds to trigger the check in the first place.

 

Alpha Legion reduce to hit rolls by 1 for any unit outside 12 inches. The trouble with that: it's a 16% to hit reduction. To hit doesn't necessarily translate to wounds in an army where most things have a 3+ save. I am sure someone could provide real probabilities for this, but I think (in most situations) the wounds saved would work out about the same with both AL and BL legion traits.

 

Black Legion's trait works all the time, and it's the difference between having to take a morale check / losing that last model on the table. If you stop and think about it, would you rather have fewer opponents on the board or more of your models? I think the later, especially when those models could be chosen / obliterators / havocs / terminators / etc. I hate losing them to the effects of morale.

 

This just focuses on the benefits of the +1 leadership, not the assault plasma or other benefits. No offense to other legions, but I am coming around to the idea we made out better than the other legions, in terms of legion traits. And the Eye of Night isn't entirely bad either, although I wish we got Last Memory instead.

[Sception]

I, unsurprisingly enough, disagree.  Night lords trait isn't strong, but it's super fluffy, and the 'shoot rapid fire weapons as assault weapons' part of our trait is anything but.  Alpha legion is dramatically better defense than plus one leadership, and actually does anything on the FW dreads and msu havoc squads that are likely to be used as fire support in CSM armies, while plus one leadership does nothing for either of those, as they'll be dead before they start taking morale tests most of the time.  Same applies to msu units otherwise, and big cultist units lose /so many/ wounds to morale that +1 isn't nearly enough, and you have to do something like drop abaddon in, or field them as r&h with enfources, both of which effectively negate morale entirely.  And even in the rare cases where one less morale casualty matters, each wound dodged by the alpha legion stratagem is /also/ one less wound suffered from morale.  On a big unit where morale might come into play, the Black Legion trait might save you a wound, where as the alpha legion trait could easily save you /several/.  Sure, it only works at range, but then again if we want to consider short range and melee units, than the biggest benefit of alpha legion being from their stratagem, which is positively huge and basically revolutionizes the use of such units in our codex.  There is a world of difference between berzerkers or the like that have to hitch rides or hoof it across no mans land and berzerkers that can simply deploy in position for virtually guaranteed first turn charges.

 

Our stratagem isn't bad, but it isn't anything like that.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Black Legion suck or anything, our other stuff is good - decent though not amazing stratagem, lackluster but still the best available choice for support characters relic, not great but enjoyably fluffy command trait (so long as you aren't running heavy slaanesh, where it becomes frustratingly redundant), impressive special character (if admittedly not quite on the level of the primarchs).  There are definitely legions that have it worse.  But our trait might as well not exist, ime/imo.  

[Dallas Drake]

I ran the following today at 1500 points against AM.

 

Abaddon

8 Combi-plasma Terminators w/mix of axes & fists (Slaanesh)

3x5 CSMs w/combi bolter & heavy bolter

2x3 Oblits (Slaanesh)

2 Rhinos w/combi bolter & havoc launcher

 

The Terminators/Oblits with Endless Cacophony are superb. Sadly Scions blasted the Terminators off the table on turn 1 so they only got 1 turn of shooting. I need to think about dropping them into places they can be bubble wrapped. I'm toying with using Nurglings to infiltrate ahead of them into areas I want them to drop into to create 'safe deepstrike' zones so enemy deep strikers can't get close/within 12". The Terminators definitely missed Delightful Agonies too but at 1500 points I wanted more guns.

CSMs & Rhinos were work horses, doing much of the scoring once the Terminators were gone. Abaddon died to overwatch fire which was sad; 1000 years terrorising the galaxy and the died charging a bunch of humans with plasma guns

[Kierdale]

The final challenge of Inspirational Friday 2017 is: The Black Legion.

Do any of those Legion stalwarts here care to give us a (big or small) piece of fiction about those who wear The Black?

The deadline for entries is Friday January 5th.

[Kierdale]

The IF2018 thread is up and I’m allowing two more weeks for the Black Legion topic. If the festive season was as busy for you as it was for me, no writing got done. :D

 

On another note, are the Black Legion-fanatics this quiet?

[hushrong]

The IF2018 thread is up and I’m allowing two more weeks for the Black Legion topic. If the festive season was as busy for you as it was for me, no writing got done.

 

On another note, are the Black Legion-fanatics this quiet?

Thanks for the extension! I have been working on my contribution but the ending of it felt rushed as I wanted to get it submitted. Now I have time to iron it out. 

[Kierdale]

We have two entries so far and 24 hour’s remain until I close the topic.

Any more to come? I hope so!

[Sonoftherubric21]

What are the thoughts on a single squad of Rubrics in the Black Legion?  I am running a fairly CSM heavy list, currently running 2 squads of 10 infantry in rhinos, 10-16 plauges in a rhino or on foot, 45 Cultists, Abbadon, 2 helbrutes, 6 terminators, plasma raptors, 

debating adding a squad of Rubrics for fun, a squad of rubrics coming out of the rhino or getting supported by abbadon could be neat. 

 

As for our trait; I actually think its pretty good, not fantastic (alpha legion and world eaters are fantastic) but our trait is solid. its not trash, but its not great. 

I have had some scenarios where the "run and shoot" has actually saved my game so it most definitely has applications. I also tend to agree the +1 morale is worth a fair bit more then people give it credit for. 

 

Our stratagem applied correctly is a ball buster. My local meta has learned to fear the 10 marines and trip-plasma coming out of a rhino. huge number of bolter shells and overcharged plasma with +1 to wound across the board (VOTLW) slamming into a unit often does quite a bit of work.  application on NON tac (chaos marine) squads is less effective but decent for 1 cp.

bare in mind that whole shebang takes 4 cp, but my average list is 8-10 CP (thanks abby!)  so 4 is alot but it does lots of damage quickly. 



 

[techsoldaten]

MSU Rubrics are fun with Black Legion, the ones from the Codex can get a Soulreaper Cannon in units of 5. Regular TS cannot do this. With Abaddon's rerolls and morale bubble, they are actually a pretty shooty choice. Not as efficient as Noise Marines with Blastmasters, but still good for the points.

 

Before the cost increase in Chapter Approved, I was tinkering with a list where 4 5x squads with Soulreapers would come out of a Kharbydis Assault Claw (and Abaddon would deep strike near them.) With a couple warpflamers in the mix, they were able to clear a lot of chaff from the board and hit well in cc. I liked them as a fun list, but there were lots of ways it could go wrong.

 

VotLW is pretty good. I mostly spend command points on Tide of Traitors right now, but every once in a while I pull it out.

[Soulhunter1995]

Hey fellow followers of the Warmaster :)

 

I have a question if I may? I`m in the process of writing up the fluff for a Black Legion Warband for a log me and my friend are doing in the not too distant future. I`m just wondering on the modelling side of it whether it would be too strange to use the upgrade kits for the Sons of Horus on Forgeworld in regards to my army? :)

 

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated as I love the 30k sons of horus kits but I`m not a fan of the legion in 30k (More Iron Warriors in that setting but anyway). Would anyone have any issue with facing a black legion force using Sons of Horus kits or not?

[hushrong]

techsoldaten, I have enjoyed using Rubrics in my lists as I find them tough as nails. The inferno bolter carries a nice sting. That All is Dust rule really saves them against attacks from weaker enemies. However, my opponents now pay them the attention they deserve with bigger guns pointed at them.

 

I really want to have a unit mixed in with their flamers to sit on objectives or burn away charging hordes.

 

Soulhunter1995, I do not think its a big problem since the Eye of Horus is the symbol used by the Black Legion. I have been using a lot of the brass etch on my marines and their tanks. I have even used some of the SoH Reaver bodies for the start of a berserker squad.

[Biohazard]

Some of you may have seen this before so apologies but here’s my Abbadon

 

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Stovie_2006/Black%20Legion/412839D0-CCEF-414A-942A-EAB2215FFA5B.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Stovie_2006/Black%20Legion/60A6CBC8-904B-4BD0-AA64-26EB87C79D8C.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Stovie_2006/Black%20Legion/48B48823-B76D-4101-9503-399298AE10E7.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Stovie_2006/Black%20Legion/5244DF44-7DAE-425E-A79C-020AC4EDF7EB.jpg

[Sonoftherubric21]

I may in the future pick up a single box of rubrics, already own a ton for my sons, but id love to field a single unit with the black legion. 

Once EC and WE get their plastic re-dos I am going to get a unit of 10 zerkers and a unit of 10 noise marines. 

I have army ADD so for me the Black Legion make sense; get some of literally every legion splashed in makes for an *incredibly* fun and diverse army. 

 

On that note; anyone have an opinion on using the Kakophoni from Forgeworld as Noise Marines in 40k?  I hate the stumpy current standard chaos marine, kakophoni just have stellar models, or is it a "best to wait" kinda deal for the noise marine kit that is fated ..... "eventualy"? 

[hushrong]

Biohazard, Abaddon is looking righteous!

 

Sonoftherubric21, I’m trying to get at least one squad of each cult marine for the same reason more or less. I want everything and Black Legion is a great way to do it.

 

As for the Kakophoni, they’re great minis if you want NM right meow. They have the the right look, weapons, and they are a bit taller than regular plastic marines. I even scoured eBay for more of their cacophony weapons to use them a sonic blasters while making my own blastmasters.There are only five sculpts so you will have to make Marines if you don’t want to duplicate bodies. I wonder if the palatine blade bodies are the same height as the kakaophoni for this.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Biohazard, Abaddon is looking righteous!

 

Sonoftherubric21, I’m trying to get at least one squad of each cult marine for the same reason more or less. I want everything and Black Legion is a great way to do it.

 

As for the Kakophoni, they’re great minis if you want NM right meow. They have the the right look, weapons, and they are a bit taller than regular plastic marines. I even scoured eBay for more of their cacophony weapons to use them a sonic blasters while making my own blastmasters.There are only five sculpts so you will have to make Marines if you don’t want to duplicate bodies. I wonder if the palatine blade bodies are the same height as the kakaophoni for this.

 

I have owned Palatines before, they are roughly the same height, but some are taller and some are shorter due to the "combat stances" positions of the palatines. Quite a good unit model wise, and personally one of my favorite 40k (...30k?) model sets, becuase they look like space marines that *ACTUALLY* understand how to use a bloody sword. not just "RAWR MAHREEEN!" like every other figure. (on world eaters and wolves it works, on other marines it looks goofy IMHO)

[hushrong]

They do look good but they are one of those sets I have yet to buy for some reason. I do want to pick them up as I am making a Palatine Blade-esque bodyguard unit for my EC army but I've decided to wait and see what new plastics we will get from a Codex release.