++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Khornestar]

Free chainswords for all. That's cool for sure, though not game-changing.

[Sception]

It fixes the equipment issues of the models, but I'm not sure how 'crazy' it makes them, apart from crazy expensive.the main problem with chosen has been and continues to be poor durability for their points cost, something that giving them the option to spend even more points on weapons doesn't really help with.

[Khornestar]

It fixes the equipment issues of the models, but I'm not sure how 'crazy' it makes them, apart from crazy expensive.the main problem with chosen has been and continues to be poor durability for their points cost, something that giving them the option to spend even more points on weapons doesn't really help with.

 

Quoted in the chosen thread.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

By "crazy" I meant lots of loony options. Not all of them are good. Chainaxes seem nice, as do Chainswords, Power Swords, and some combinations of those w/Combi-Bolters and a Heavy Bolter.

[Panzer]

It's a buff for Chosen but only a small one. If you go with Combi-Bolter and Power weapons you end up with having a worse Grey Knight Strike Squad. However it's the only unit apart from Terminators that can potentially do something in the melee phase and shooting phase in the Codex so that's something I guess.

[hushrong]

It's more points but I do wonder if this lets them have good shooting and a stronger melee phase bundled together.

 

I honestly think the Chosen need a built in special rule to make them more enticing but weapon options can give them flexibility. Let them have a deep strike/infiltrate option or some rule like "Pantheon's Blessing" (sounds cool, right?) that's like a cheap copy of All is Dust with the better save against weaker weapons. Random mumbles and musings...

[techsoldaten]

I've been using them in a Rhino to storm objectives late-game. They have worked well in this capacity, a lot better than they did as infiltrators (which always died soon after the game started.) Having the Chainsword option is a nice bonus, there's now something that makes them clearly different from CSMs. But you're right, they need more to be exciting. We already have enough expensive units to deal with.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Anybody been thinking about the "advance and fire" stuff we can do and how it might work with the new FAQ? There might be more opportunities for it now that aggressive DS is less common.

[Syrakul]

I'm happy to try running a combi-bolter/power weapon squad, run them up in a dreadclaw with 5 zerkers, unleash the bolter fire and assault multiple enemy units with both squads, power weapon/fists for armor, Zerkers for numbers. I usually run a JP lord behind the pod to zone in when the units shoot charge for the lord rerolls.

 

I finally got my Metal Abaddon's weapons and finished this conversion; that's usually the right time for new models to drop:

 

Oh and new Oblits too, perhaps?:

 

 

[hushrong]

Nice and nice!

 

I think those myrmidons will make sweet obliterators!

[Syrakul]

Thanks! I'm really contemplating how I can add a unit of Chosen into my army, which already has:

 

A unit of 5 Noise marines, all sonic stuff.

10 zerkers, all sword/axe.

Plenty of Combi-plasma/Power sword terminators, and CC terminators, etc.., 5, 5, 5 models.

 

I figured would be cool to have 5 Chosen and 5 zerkers share a dreadclaw to bring them in. With its flamer weapon, and my lack of flamers in squads above thought I could go like this:

5 chosen:

4 combi-flamers, bolt pistols, power axes

champion w/ combi-flamer, bolt pistol, power fist.

 

As usual its 75 pts less than termis with same loadout, which pays for half their ride.

 

Taking the above 5 chosen with 5 zerkers with swords/axes, champ fist/sword and banner, all inside a dreadclaw is just over 400 pts

5 flamers, 10 bolters, plus stronger flamer from their pod, which should jump over into the enemy forces to maximize its own AOE flamer.

If you can roast the chaff from short range, You are ready to charge whatever is hiding behind, deciding on the AP power weapons or Berzerker first/second charge depending on target.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Syrakul

[Sonoftherubric21]

When regarding the chaos FAQ buff for chosen; 

 

We now have starting : Bolt pistol, Bolter, and Chainsword as per last edition for chosen. 

This gives a  base statline of 2 attacks + sword.  combo that DTtFE and you've got a fairly grindy unit. It seems like chosen are just sterns/vanguard rolled into one minus perhaps the jump packs... 

Seems like the unit is a fairly good unit in melee and in ranged, 3 attacks per model, lots of great gun options to deal with various threats. They look capable on paper, just make sure you give them a ride and seems pretty good, along with being quite capable in Melee (bonus against imperials not included) 

[Khornestar]

I think chainaxes + combi-bolters would be great against most infantry. Against marines I think the chainaxes would outperform the chainswords with the extra attack by a decent margin.

[Syrakul]

Yes though just giving chainaxes and combibolters is still worse than zerkers in melee and expensive for bolter fire.

The new rule of 3 and the significant difference in cp for taking a battalion over say, multiple vanguard detachments means taking them as troops+1 is less useful than before. Also no obsec. I feel they need more firepower to serve a purpose, and while they arent that much less expensive that terminators, termis lost alphastrike and usually could be shredded in one retalitory shooting phase anyways.

 

I agree about chainaxes over swords, the str +1 is significant on str 4 model, AP as well.

15 swords hit 2/3, wound (t4) 1/2, save fail 1/3 = 1.6667 wounds (1/9 chance each hit succeeds)

10 axes hit 2/3, wound (t4) 2/3, save fail 1/2 = 2.222 wounds (2/9 chance each hit succeeds,double!)

Against imperium where 6’s on first roll gen more attacks

swords get 17.5 attacks = 1.94 wounds

Axes get 11.66667 attacks = 2.59 wounds

Edited May 7, 2018 by Syrakul

[Sonoftherubric21]

Anyone got experience with noise marines in our list? 

 

I just got 10 Kakophoni and so I intend on making a Slannesh themed black legion list (just to tag onto my existing Black Legion). 

 

As well as the Lord of Slannesh on the Snake mount, always loved that model and his rules in the index are very impressive for his cheap point cost. 

 

Anyone got advice on how best to use Noise Marines in our list? foot slog? rhino required? seems like they have alot of damage potential with decent melee. Abbadon nearby I imagine would be a nightmare for chaff units or units counting on cover for survival.  

 

The Slannesh Lord for his points and statline.... seems fantastic, give a combi flamer, or a pair of lightning claws and intoxicating elixir and he moves incredibly fast to confirm melee and then he shreds a squad.  This whole combo is either 110 (combi flamer, axe, intoxicating) or 106 (duel light claws, intoxicating) and he looks like he absolutely shreds anything that isnt a tank. 

The ONLY weakness normally is that lords on daemonic mounts only give their RR1's aura to stuff that is the same mark....well given that I just got noise marines and also tend to use Slannesh on my havocs, and chaos marine troops (to abuse "Let the Galaxy Burn")...... Doesn't really seem like a weakness from where I am standing. 

 

thoughts on Lord and on Noise Marines? 

[Syrakul]

Well for shooty list Slannesh is the way to go, due to the double shoot strat. Be careful of noise marines without a target from range, a smart opponent might take that opportunity to pick them off and avoid their counter-fire.

 

We lost Sonic dreads in the newest faq (I think then) as they now must have the Emperors Children <legion>.

I personally liked the blastmaster/ml combo as both weapons have a anti-horde/anti-armor profile so firefrenzy always could provide appropriate firepower.

 

I run a lord with JP, combi-flamer and fist/claw, so he can zip into combat or reposition for the reroll ones where appropriate. I usually run Khorne assault/charge/reroll artifact but yes slannesh with the +1A +1S is huge on dual claw. 6 attacks at Str 5 rerolling wounds with AP is the best bet there (if you want him to help shred that tank , T7-9, he is wounding on 5, then use VOTLW to wound on 4 rerollable? Bad damage still for tanks.

If imperial opponent and you have the BL 5+ Hatred warlord trait you might force 8 armor saves though.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Syrakul

[techsoldaten]

Anyone got experience with noise marines in our list? 

 

I just got 10 Kakophoni and so I intend on making a Slannesh themed black legion list (just to tag onto my existing Black Legion). 

 

As well as the Lord of Slannesh on the Snake mount, always loved that model and his rules in the index are very impressive for his cheap point cost. 

 

Anyone got advice on how best to use Noise Marines in our list? foot slog? rhino required? seems like they have alot of damage potential with decent melee. Abbadon nearby I imagine would be a nightmare for chaff units or units counting on cover for survival.  

 

The Slannesh Lord for his points and statline.... seems fantastic, give a combi flamer, or a pair of lightning claws and intoxicating elixir and he moves incredibly fast to confirm melee and then he shreds a squad.  This whole combo is either 110 (combi flamer, axe, intoxicating) or 106 (duel light claws, intoxicating) and he looks like he absolutely shreds anything that isnt a tank. 

 

The ONLY weakness normally is that lords on daemonic mounts only give their RR1's aura to stuff that is the same mark....well given that I just got noise marines and also tend to use Slannesh on my havocs, and chaos marine troops (to abuse "Let the Galaxy Burn")...... Doesn't really seem like a weakness from where I am standing. 

 

thoughts on Lord and on Noise Marines? 

 

I've been thinking about Slaanesh Black Legion, but mostly for the sake of a pure-speed list.

 

Large squads of MoS Bikers who advance up-field quickly and use Endless Cacophony for shooting. A separate detachment of Daemonettes deep striking and trying to charge in. Double Heldrakes to bypass screens and harass elite units.

 

Then Noise Marines jumping from a transport and shooting up the best targets, starting turn 2 or 3. Abaddon deep striking into position wherever the action is.

 

I'm more used to long-range Black Legion lists, but I'm seeing a lot of shooty gunline armies right now. Feels like we're headed to a board control meta, where being able to tie up a gunline is more important than anything else.

[Syrakul]

Had a game on thursday running counts-as Emperors Children against Mostly primaris SM.

Starting first turn I had 5 NM with 4 sonic blasters and one blastmaster trying to take down 3 agressors (jumped out of Rhino and moved forward, with a Lord for reroll 1’s).

I placed VOTLW on them to help against the T5.... did one wound, but blastmaster was using assault profile against a primaris squad nearby. Wanting to score ITC oldschool obj. ‘kill in first round’ I spent the 2 points for Endless Cacophony, full blast on the agressors, scored another wound... one dead :( however the noise marines managed to hold their ground against lots of counterfire, and when suffering a casualty from primaris bolterfire, I used the opportunity to remove my blastmaster model: his MoTA fire by fluke was able to remove both remaining agressors, before they were able to fire. Additional casualties in the same round, sonic blaster MoTA fire took out 2 vanguard vets

 

TL;dr buffed noice marine fire sucked, but my ‘musicOTApoc’ firepower did some great work

[Deadass]

Incredibly late to the party, but can I get an entry in the list on page one?

The Dreadravers - Dyrath Kal, the Black Legate - AHorriblePerson

[Sonoftherubric21]

Had a game on thursday running counts-as Emperors Children against Mostly primaris SM.

Starting first turn I had 5 NM with 4 sonic blasters and one blastmaster trying to take down 3 agressors (jumped out of Rhino and moved forward, with a Lord for reroll 1’s).

I placed VOTLW on them to help against the T5.... did one wound, but blastmaster was using assault profile against a primaris squad nearby. Wanting to score ITC oldschool obj. ‘kill in first round’ I spent the 2 points for Endless Cacophony, full blast on the agressors, scored another wound... one dead however the noise marines managed to hold their ground against lots of counterfire, and when suffering a casualty from primaris bolterfire, I used the opportunity to remove my blastmaster model: his MoTA fire by fluke was able to remove both remaining agressors, before they were able to fire. Additional casualties in the same round, sonic blaster MoTA fire took out 2 vanguard vets

 

TL;dr buffed noice marine fire sucked, but my ‘musicOTApoc’ firepower did some great work

 

I think based off of what I have seen of Noise Marines so far is they grind hordes into dust.  3 shots at str 4 ignoring cover is substantial.  I can see Noise marines putting some massive hurt onto horde units, orks, guard, tzaangors, cultists, stealer cult units, nid units. 

 

Id imagine a buff would (Either Prescience, Vets Of Long War, or the RR1's aura) would work wonders. maintaining good shooting at 24 means they have pretty good board control, use the rhino to block out shots from things that will remove them. Id imagine that something like Primaris are not a prime target for them. Abuse the 24 inch distance and get out of the enemy double tap range, probably would work well. (conjecture on my part, as my noise marines arent in quite yet!) 

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

What does it take to start a decent Black Legion force?

[Sception]

What does it take to start a decent Black Legion force?

 

A method for painting black that you feel looks good but doesn't take too much time and effort to pull off, willful self-delusion on how well the 3rd & 4th edition chaos plastics hold up as models, and an acceptance of the fact that, since Black Legion are narratively the vanilla, jack-of-all-trades flavor of their respective faction, whatever it is that you choose for your army to do, there probably exists some other more narratively specialized flavor of chaos marines that can run the same army ever so slightly better.  Embracing the 'little bit of everything' attitude of the Black Legion by skipping pure legion armies in favor of blended chaos soup lists mixing detachments of heretic astartes, daemons, renegade knights, and/or FW traitor guard also helps, even if it means bringing half a dozen rules sources to each of your games.

[Mekhitar]

Abbadon.

;)

I have a conversion from the standard terminator lord kit with a sword and a claw that I use as a stand in.

 

A LOT of cultists (to benefit from Fearless) - even in casual games I take at least 30.

 

I like mixed cult troops, since one of the benefits of BL is not being mono god. Zerkers in rhinos are pretty fun and effective, for example, or noise marines for horde clearing.

 

You can never go wrong with at least 1 winged DP or Sorcerer.

 

And, to benefit from abbadon’s full rerolls, some long range AT, such as lascannons, missile launchers, or preds.

 

That will get you down a decent, pretty fun road. Won’t win you any tournaments, but it plays fine in a casual or league setting.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Mekhitar

[Midnightmare]

Dreadclaws and the Black Legion. I am trying to get back in the hobby and have been offered a built and undercoated one for a very good price but I don’t know what to put in it as I have not played the 8th bar a few games about a year ago!!

 

What would you put in it fellow Warlords??

[Syrakul]

I use a converted dreadclaw in plenty of games, usually gets my models in place, if you have decent terrain on the board. That said its no more resilient then a Rhino and does present a more enticing target.

 

The turn it drops your units off it can get in position to fry several enemy units at once, though that flamer has never done much work for me.

 

About what to take inside, I often take 5 Plasmagun Havocs AND 5 CC specialists (Chosen, Zerkers) and if it gets popped you can remove emergency disembark casualties from either unit depending on how far they got and what is nearby.