++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Sception]

Eh. Given that CSMs dont have any other content in this first vigilus book - no formations, not even a fluff section describing what csm forces are participating in the battle - i don't think ill be using this guy, because i'm not going to buy and tote around a whole book just for one model, especially not a model that's only maybe arguably a little bit better than a plain old jump lord, when jump lords aren't exactly flying off the display shelf to begin with.

 

And even compared to a notmal jump lord, he's only arguably better for supporting a raptor heavy strategy, which imo isnt really the best or most versatile strategy, and doesnt even help out our other jump unit. And *even then* he's only better for supporting the melee offence of raptors, which isn't even the most important offence raptors have to offer.

 

I still like the model and might get it eventually, but i think ill be converting a generic hero out of it myself.

[Panzer]

Eh. Given that CSMs dont have any other content in this first vigilus book - no formations, not even a fluff section describing what csm forces are participating in the battle - i don't think ill be using this guy, because i'm not going to buy and tote around a whole book just for one model, especially not a model that's only maybe arguably a little bit better than a plain old jump lord, when jump lords aren't exactly flying off the display shelf to begin with.

 

And even compared to a notmal jump lord, he's only arguably better for supporting a raptor heavy strategy, which imo isnt really the best or most versatile strategy, and doesnt even help out our other jump unit. And *even then* he's only better for supporting the melee offence of raptors, which isn't even the most important offence raptors have to offer.

 

I still like the model and might get it eventually, but i think ill be converting a generic hero out of it myself.

 

There's a good fix for that. Take a picture of the Datasheet with your phone. No need to carry the whole book around. :D

Doesn't change the fact that he isn't very overwhelming crunch-wise tho.

[Sception]

To be clear, I don't think this guy's *bad* at all.  I just also don't think he's enough better than a regular chaos lord to be worth spending points on when those points could have gone towards daemon princes or sorcerers, and I certainly don't think he justifies buying this book for a CSM player who doesn't also play orcs, eldar, or imperials, because it seems like he's literally the only csm content in the book, in terms of both crunch and fluff.  Again, though, I think the model's pretty great, though I do still wish he was a night lords hero instead.

[Panzer]

I'll be buying the book without even having any single of my factions represented there. No T'au, no Blood Angels, no Slaanesh. However if it's really on the level of FW Black books quality-wise as they told us then I want it for the artworks and the fluff. This'll be an experiment to see if it's really on such a high level as advertised. Also if one of my factions happen to be there in the second book I'd hate missing the first book. :P

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Whooo.....Chosen going down to 1point more than a base CSM seems to suggest a lot of new options, especially with certain weapons dropping in price.

 

Even just Chainswords and Combi-Bolters gets you a 5 man squad for 80 that can bring some real pain against hordes. 2x5 in a Rhino will hurt things.

 

I can also see running them "Reaver Squad" style with Chainaxes on 10 of them. Cheaper than Berserkers and they get Bolters. Sure, they don't hit as hard, but they're more flexible and have better firepower, plus better Ld. For BL, they're Ld 10, so you need 5 of them to die in one go before they care. Combi-Bolters on 5 of them would only be another 10pts if you're inclined to mix the two options.

 

Lightning Claw spam might work, but could be too expensive.

 

Plasma Pistol/Chainaxe could be promising, since Plasma Pistols went down by 2ppm.

 

Anyone else got ideas for them in a BL army?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'm really tempted to do a super mobile Black Legion Army led by Haarken. Raptors, Talons, bikers Flying Daemon Prince(s), a Sicaran, and maybe even Dreadclaws and some of the Forge World flyers would be pretty sweet. What are you guys thinking? 

[Midnightmare]

Oh well, that explains that!! :D :D

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I'm really tempted to do a super mobile Black Legion Army led by Haarken. Raptors, Talons, bikers Flying Daemon Prince(s), a Sicaran, and maybe even Dreadclaws and some of the Forge World flyers would be pretty sweet. What are you guys thinking? 

Dreadclaws went down again (by 18 pts this time I think), Talons dropped 3, and Raptors/Bikers went down 2, so it might be doable. Just make sure to bring sufficient Rapid Fire weapons to make the Legion Trait work for you (PLASMAAAAAA!!!)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

I'm really tempted to do a super mobile Black Legion Army led by Haarken. Raptors, Talons, bikers Flying Daemon Prince(s), a Sicaran, and maybe even Dreadclaws and some of the Forge World flyers would be pretty sweet. What are you guys thinking? 

Dreadclaws went down again (by 18 pts this time I think), Talons dropped 3, and Raptors/Bikers went down 2, so it might be doable. Just make sure to bring sufficient Rapid Fire weapons to make the Legion Trait work for you (PLASMAAAAAA!!!)

 

 

That's where I was hoping my fellow Black Legionnaires would welcome me in and hook me up with some notes on what those ideas are lacking and what other units I should be adding in ;)

 

I should probably read up on the BLs details some more as I start/continue this collection. I'm a WE/WB/DG player as far as the traitors goes.. I haven't paid any attention to the other parts of the CSM codex. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

I'm really tempted to do a super mobile Black Legion Army led by Haarken. Raptors, Talons, bikers Flying Daemon Prince(s), a Sicaran, and maybe even Dreadclaws and some of the Forge World flyers would be pretty sweet. What are you guys thinking? 

Dreadclaws went down again (by 18 pts this time I think), Talons dropped 3, and Raptors/Bikers went down 2, so it might be doable. Just make sure to bring sufficient Rapid Fire weapons to make the Legion Trait work for you (PLASMAAAAAA!!!)

 

 

That's where I was hoping my fellow Black Legionnaires would welcome me in and hook me up with some notes on what those ideas are lacking and what other units I should be adding in

 

I should probably read up on the BLs details some more as I start/continue this collection. I'm a WE/WB/DG player as far as the traitors goes.. I haven't paid any attention to the other parts of the CSM codex. 

 

Basically +1Ld and the ability to change Rapid Fire weapons to Assault when you Advance. Then there's a stratagem that gives reroll 1's to hit to certain BL units and more rerolls to actual CSM troop squads.

 

Might want to consider Abaddon. Most of the good BL builds favor him.

 

So maybe 1 or 2 CSM squads with dual Special/Heavy Weapons, Cultist blobs, Abby, then the rest of the stuff you mentioned above. Possibly Slaanesh Obliterators.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

I'm really tempted to do a super mobile Black Legion Army led by Haarken. Raptors, Talons, bikers Flying Daemon Prince(s), a Sicaran, and maybe even Dreadclaws and some of the Forge World flyers would be pretty sweet. What are you guys thinking? 

Dreadclaws went down again (by 18 pts this time I think), Talons dropped 3, and Raptors/Bikers went down 2, so it might be doable. Just make sure to bring sufficient Rapid Fire weapons to make the Legion Trait work for you (PLASMAAAAAA!!!)

 

 

That's where I was hoping my fellow Black Legionnaires would welcome me in and hook me up with some notes on what those ideas are lacking and what other units I should be adding in

 

I should probably read up on the BLs details some more as I start/continue this collection. I'm a WE/WB/DG player as far as the traitors goes.. I haven't paid any attention to the other parts of the CSM codex. 

 

 

Whatever you read and despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth do not neglect a unit or 2 of basic CSM troops. Our strategem abuses them and their weapon options quite well. 

 

I am very fond of a unit with Triple Plasma (2 guys in unit + Aspiring champion with Combi-plasma) popping out of a rhino with slannesh mark.  Nail em with 6 plasma and 14 bolter shells re-rolling *all* misses with +1 to wound, and if need be? DO IT AGAIN!  Making it 12 Plasma shots and 28 bolter shells also retaining the re-rolls and +1 to wound.  This does cost 4 CP for the whole shebang but it makes a basic squad of chaos marines very dangerous.  

 

You can do something similar to the above with Havocs or Chosen (LOTS of special weapons, and the strat to Re-roll 1's only, or with minimal HQ support for buff aura) 

 

I have found that Black Legion are one of the best chaos legions to run basic marines in due to that strategem.

 

Abbadon is of course stellar even considering his mammoth points cost. That +2 CP for being Warlord is great and his warlord trait is just mean against any imperial player. 

 

The legion also (as any non-marked legion does) lends itself to playing all of the Cult squads. I actively run Noise Marines and Plague Marines in my Black Legion on a regular basis. With the recent release of Haarken and point drops I imagine we will see some raptors flying around for sure.  

[Prot]

What mark and loadout do you guys help Haarken’s Raptors?

 

Also I’m not sure if I’d use regular CSM if chosen are going to be that cheap.... I mean a Rhino full with plasma and even an axe or two could be tasty.

[Sonoftherubric21]

What mark and loadout do you guys help Haarken’s Raptors?

 

Also I’m not sure if I’d use regular CSM if chosen are going to be that cheap.... I mean a Rhino full with plasma and even an axe or two could be tasty.

 

The recent change to Chosen is a point to thing about as well of course. Re-rolling all is still nice though they really need to chance base chaos marines. 

 

For Haarkens Raptors I am looking personally at Khorne Mark with icon for the bigger squads. Power Fist + Plasma pistol or duel light-claws squad leader. 2 plasma guns in squad, or 2 meltas depending. 

 

I plan on running either 20-25 or so raptors myself in lists with Haarken for many games. Squads of 10/10/5 or 10/10 or something similar. Haven't fully nailed down the list design yet but those are what I am favoring ATM.  Beyond the raptors and haarken it will be more point-effective options, Predators with killshot and las cannons, a couple of ranged damage helbrutes, and 3 squads of cultists to bulk out the list after taking Haarken + Raptors. 

 

 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

What mark and loadout do you guys help Haarken’s Raptors?

 

Also I’m not sure if I’d use regular CSM if chosen are going to be that cheap.... I mean a Rhino full with plasma and even an axe or two could be tasty.

Let the Galaxy Burn lets CSM troops reroll all failed hit rolls for the current phase (shooting or fighting). Only let's Chosen reroll 1's.

 

I personally run with at least 1 squad of regular CSM in every list for that reason, especially since I don't run Abaddon.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

So, is overkitting of the chosen a bad thing? I'm guessing all Plasmagun is probably going to be the most popular build, but should that same unit be given all PWs as well? 

[Closet Skeleton]

I don't see why you'd give chosen power weapons when chain axes are only 1 point. 17 point storm bolter and chain axe chosen sound efficient.

 

I'd go for 3 units of 10 Raptors with Haarken but I'd be tempted to make them world eaters so they can actually hit hard. Maybe have one nurgle black legion unit for the -1 leadership icon. 4 units of 15 would be cool but also most of your army. Alternatively have 2 units of 15, a khorne one that deepstrikes and a nurgle one supported by a warptime and miasma of pestilence jumppack sorcerer.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I don't see why you'd give chosen power weapons when chain axes are only 1 point. 17 point storm bolter and chain axe chosen sound efficient.

 

I'd go for 3 units of 10 Raptors with Haarken but I'd be tempted to make them world eaters so they can actually hit hard. Maybe have one nurgle black legion unit for the -1 leadership icon. 4 units of 15 would be cool but also most of your army. Alternatively have 2 units of 15, a khorne one that deepstrikes and a nurgle one supported by a warptime and miasma of pestilence jumppack sorcerer.

Yeah, Chainaxe/Combi-Bolter Chosen came to mind immediately for me too...and a fluffy Sons of Horus reference.

[Panzer]

A cheap anti-horde Chosen Squad sounds nice but I can't help comparing it to Grey Knight Strike Squads who get more AP, multi-damage, psi, deep strike and are Troop choices for only 20p more and -1S in melee. Strike Squads themselves are neat but nothing to brag about so just don't expect too much from your Chosen Squad either is all I'm saying.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to paint my Black legion. I'd like do something a little bit different than the black and I'm considering painting them like Sons of Horus Reavers with green on the shoulder pads. Would Abbadon look down on a Warband that wore some of the Legions old colors?

[Khornestar]

Well, they’re your models so you can paint them however you like. Assuming one can speak for Abaddon, I sorta assume wearing black armor is non-negotiable for members of the Black Legion and not some randomly associated warband. Maybe shoulder pads for former heraldry, or somesuch.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Well, they’re your models so you can paint them however you like. Assuming one can speak for Abaddon, I sorta assume wearing black armor is non-negotiable for members of the Black Legion and not some randomly associated warband. Maybe shoulder pads for former heraldry, or somesuch.

It's more of a fluff question than a modelling question for me. I've read about why Abbadon decided to change the colors but I know they kept they eye of horus as a reminder of their failure as their former legion. I'm wondering if a Warband who had the Sons of Horus green on their shoulder pads would be looked upon negatively by Abbadon.

[Closet Skeleton]

Warbands who mix up the Black Legion scheme have precedent, see the Hounds of Abaddon's red helmets and shoulder pad.

[Panzer]

The main colour will always be black tho. They are literally the "Black" Legion.

[Sonoftherubric21]

For frame of reference in the Black Legion novel (of the same name no less!) Khayon makes a point of talking about Thousand Sons that were amalgamated into the Black Legion. 

Some repainted the armor full on black/gold but others retained the cobalt of the Thousand Sons combined with a single shoulder pad being black. So the Rubrics in whatever warband they came from had the option of changing depending on that sorcerers whims. 

 

I would imagine all other cults and warbands are offered similar opportunities. As said previously, your model and you paint them how you want, and there is *usually* some form of fluff justification if that's what you're looking for. 

[micahwc]

I’m thinking of getting some black legion, and will defiantly do so if Abbadon gets a model update; I have a pair of armigers almost assembled so I figured I try painting them in black legion colors.

 

https://imgur.com/a/baKUsJh

 

Primed black with Vallejo black airbrush primer, then airbrushed with watered down Liquitex Payne’s Grey. Metal is Vallejo liquid metal copper and liquid metal gold.

 

Thoughts?