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Iron-Daemon Forge

By Iron-Daemon Forge
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MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

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What cult troops are must takes for Black Legion?

 

The appropriate answer is: "Yes" 

 

I personally DO NOT run Rubrics at all in my Black Legion....because I have 60 in my Thousand Sons... No overlap. 

 

 

 

But... if someone were to want to use rubrics in their Black legion force...how is the best kit out for them? 

 

:biggrin.: thanks for the basic ideas for the other Cults !

 

Mithril 

 

 

So funnily enough one of the better builds for Rubrics is only available to Undivided legions and not available to thousand sons!!!  You can take a 5 man unit of rubrics with a Soulreaper cannon. 1k sons get them as troops but require 10 man to get soul reaper. The unit is great for objective sitting, offers a 5 man unit thats immune to morale, and can output 6 shells at ap-2  and 4 shells at ap-3.  For (I think off hand) 104 points. 

 

Abuse this (you can do it up to 3 squads in elites!). Especially with bolter discipline. (obviously you can get  bigger squads) I find Rubrics to be great and literally have only gotten better as we get deeper into 8th. Points decrease, Bolter discipline.

 

Frankly with that rule in place? Stick a 5-10 man squad somewhere midfield or in the home territory on an objective and they have guns that can threaten anything that is not T8 easily with ap-2 shots and that squad (assuming in cover) will take a ludicrously disproportional amount of fire to get rid of. The thing killing them will more then likely be worth triple or quadruple their point cost and they are (barring bad rolls) dang near immune to small arms fire. 

 

2+ save / 5++ save, turns into a 1+ / 4++ save in cover against Damage 1 weapons. Bolter Discipline meaning that "double tap" range when standing still is 24 so they can reach out and threaten a fair amount of targets. I personally do big squads but if you want to splash a good objective holder unit in an undivided legion Rubrics are a solid choice IMHO. 

 

 

i have the chaos codex now ,found the thousand sons in elites section pge 45 & 98 * - i cannot find where this unit special rule is in the chaos codex...is it an FAQ ?! there's no mention of a soulreaper cannon etc  :unsure.:

 

Mithril

Dr_Ruminahui Venerable Brother

Dr_Ruminahui

Posted
Posted

The datasheet for rubric marines is on page 133.  Under wargear options, it says "One rubric marine may replace his inferno boltgun with a soulreaper cannon.  If the unit includes 20 models, a second rubric marine may do so."  Unit size starts at 5, therefore it allows you to take a minimum squad with a cannon.

 

The stats for a soulreaper cannon is in the datasheet's Weapons list, and its point cost is on page 167, though that is no longer correct as they got a points drop in the 2018 chapter approved (page 127).

 

Hope that helps.

MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

Posted
Posted

The datasheet for rubric marines is on page 133.  Under wargear options, it says "One rubric marine may replace his inferno boltgun with a soulreaper cannon.  If the unit includes 20 models, a second rubric marine may do so."  Unit size starts at 5, therefore it allows you to take a minimum squad with a cannon.

 

The stats for a soulreaper cannon is in the datasheet's Weapons list, and its point cost is on page 167, though that is no longer correct as they got a points drop in the 2018 chapter approved (page 127).

 

Hope that helps.

 

:huh.:  the chaos codex i have(borrowed from a mate) only has 105 pages!?!... its the same cover pic as the codex listed on GW's site...

 

Mithril  

Marshal Loss Venerable Brother

Marshal Loss

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It's probably a digital file. I checked my book and he is correct. So it looks like CSM get easier access to a soulreaper but TS get an extra power.

 

Codex: Thousand Sons:

 

 

 

For every ten models in the unit, one Rubric Marine may replace his inferno boltgun with a soulreaper cannon.

 

Codex: Chaos Space Marines:

 

 

 

One Rubric Marine may may replace his inferno boltgun with a soulreaper cannon. If the unit includes 20 models, a second Rubric Marine may also do this.
Wayniac Battle-Brother

Wayniac

Posted
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Are you sure it's the current codex? The cover picture was the same for the previous codex.

It's the current one, I checked it myself yesterday when I saw it mentioned.  CSM codex says one in 5 can have the cannon, 2 if 20.  TSons codex says 1 in 10 can have it, 2 if 20.  What I'm not sure of is if the version in TSons codex replaces the one in the CSM codex since they have the same name, but different designations (e.g. CSM is Elite, TSons is Troops) because that entire part and how it works is confusing to me when a datasheet is or isn't replaced by a newer one.

 

The box however only comes with 1 per 10 so...

Kythnos Venerable Brother

Kythnos

Posted
Posted

 

Are you sure it's the current codex? The cover picture was the same for the previous codex.

It's the current one, I checked it myself yesterday when I saw it mentioned.  CSM codex says one in 5 can have the cannon, 2 if 20.  TSons codex says 1 in 10 can have it, 2 if 20.  What I'm not sure of is if the version in TSons codex replaces the one in the CSM codex since they have the same name, but different designations (e.g. CSM is Elite, TSons is Troops) because that entire part and how it works is confusing to me when a datasheet is or isn't replaced by a newer one.

 

The box however only comes with 1 per 10 so...

 

 

I know about that. My comment was more in regards to the odd page numbers that mithrilforge mentioned.

Wayniac Battle-Brother

Wayniac

Posted
Posted

 

 

Are you sure it's the current codex? The cover picture was the same for the previous codex.

It's the current one, I checked it myself yesterday when I saw it mentioned.  CSM codex says one in 5 can have the cannon, 2 if 20.  TSons codex says 1 in 10 can have it, 2 if 20.  What I'm not sure of is if the version in TSons codex replaces the one in the CSM codex since they have the same name, but different designations (e.g. CSM is Elite, TSons is Troops) because that entire part and how it works is confusing to me when a datasheet is or isn't replaced by a newer one.

 

The box however only comes with 1 per 10 so...

 

 

I know about that. My comment was more in regards to the odd page numbers that mithrilforge mentioned.

 

Oh!  Sorry misread :)

Closet Skeleton Venerable Brother

Closet Skeleton

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Well please, whomever has the newest codex ,can you give me the amount of pages in it please...

My fear that my friends codex is not the most recent one is becoming more obvious !!.

 

Mithril

 

Only the newest chaos codex even has Soul Reaper cannons in it, since they weren't a thing before Thousand Sons plastics came out at the end of 7th.

Furnace Lord Battle-Brother

Furnace Lord

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Hi everyone. I've been posting a bit on the forum having just gotten back into the hobby, but I figured I'd say hi and declare my continued allegiance to the Warmaster. In ages past I was always very keen on the Daemon Engine infernal manufactory aspect of Chaos, and the new releases have me thrilled. Mostly my BL warband has been about being space Chaos dwarves except as marines :p Anyway, just wanted to formally introduce myself, maybe I'll start an army blog or something in the future :p
Deadass Veteran

Deadass

Posted
Posted

Found this on Instagram just now: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu7mhibnqU4/

 

Anyone else tempted to give this a go? Seems to be loosely based on Falkus' description in Talon of Horus, this could be how he looks in M41 or M42. He'd need different armament, he's mentioned in Slaves to Darkness as using a plasma blaster and in Talon with two thunder hammers iirc. With new terminators on the horizon, this could be a great opportunity to kitbash and convert some Bringers of Despair...

MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

Posted
Posted

Compare for yourself. This is the current codex:

1200x630bb.jpg

 

 

This is the previous one:

51uNRdHN2DL._SX359_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

The cover should match either of these pictures :smile.:

 

Ok :down:  that solves that riddle... I'm getting my mate flayed and stuffed into a deamon engine ,the Fool of a took doesn't even have an up to date Chaos Codex (:ermm: well neither do i for that matter,but that's beside the point :sweat: )

So do i go out and purchase said codex of newness....or wait and see if after all of this NEW chaos goodness is released that a new Codex drops out of the eye of terror...or cicatrix mala..whatever it is :biggrin.: ...?!!?? ..

 

thanks for clearing it up guys anyway :happy.:

 

cheers Mithril

Closet Skeleton Venerable Brother

Closet Skeleton

Posted
Posted

I would also wait. Thankfully for me the Chaos codex is one I've got a lot of use out of but its not cheap and I will feel a bit begrudging if I have to buy a new one soon.

 

Found this on Instagram just now: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu7mhibnqU4/

 

Anyone else tempted to give this a go? Seems to be loosely based on Falkus' description in Talon of Horus, this could be how he looks in M41 or M42. He'd need different armament, he's mentioned in Slaves to Darkness as using a plasma blaster and in Talon with two thunder hammers iirc. With new terminators on the horizon, this could be a great opportunity to kitbash and convert some Bringers of Despair...

 

Talon of Horus (mistakenly in my opinion) has Abaddon in Cataphracti but Falkus' Justaerin are described more like 40k era Indomitus terminators with their horns and tusks, which fits with the fluff that Horus horded all the Indomitus armour in preparation for the heresy.

Excessus Venerable Brother

Excessus

Posted
Posted

In Talon of Horus he's walking around in power armour, the cataphractii is still the old heresy armour. Falkus has been out and about in the eye battling...stuff. They're bound to have upgraded a bit due to attrition. Horuses current termie armour is a special artifice armour made specifically for him.

Wayniac Battle-Brother

Wayniac

Posted
Posted

I would also wait. Thankfully for me the Chaos codex is one I've got a lot of use out of but its not cheap and I will feel a bit begrudging if I have to buy a new one soon.

 

Found this on Instagram just now: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu7mhibnqU4/

 

Anyone else tempted to give this a go? Seems to be loosely based on Falkus' description in Talon of Horus, this could be how he looks in M41 or M42. He'd need different armament, he's mentioned in Slaves to Darkness as using a plasma blaster and in Talon with two thunder hammers iirc. With new terminators on the horizon, this could be a great opportunity to kitbash and convert some Bringers of Despair...

 

Talon of Horus (mistakenly in my opinion) has Abaddon in Cataphracti but Falkus' Justaerin are described more like 40k era Indomitus terminators with their horns and tusks, which fits with the fluff that Horus horded all the Indomitus armour in preparation for the heresy.

I did notice that the descriptions of the Justaerin in Talon of Horus definitely described them as looking like the current CSM Terminator models, with the beast face helms and tusks/horns when Justaerin should be wearing Cataphractii according to 30k.  Although chaos being chaos it's very likely the armor has been scavenged and modified and jury-rigged over the time in the Warp.  I'm just personally not a fan of Chaos terminators wearing what is clearly Indomitus armor for some reason, despite the fact they would have had access to it and as you pointed out it would be likely that Horus got all of the new stuff for his legion before the Heresy broke out.

Closet Skeleton Venerable Brother

Closet Skeleton

Posted
Posted

The 30k model range is kind of terrible at representing actual Horus Heresy era units rather than Great Crusade era ones. Along with the price its what's put me off that game (despite wanting a Great Crusade Lunar Wolves force just as a display army). The Justaerin are okay in that they're wearing modified Cataphracti with some Tartaros elements but they should really just be in Indomitus Armour as per the actual fluff for that armour type.

 

Except no one would buy them if they did so because ForgeWorld's rules team went and made the more primitive sorts of Terminator Armour have better rules. The fluff for Tartaros armour is a mistake in my opinion, the existence of a terminator equivalent to make IV overlaps with how Indomitus was previously described but they never retconned the history of Indomitus leading to lots of people assuming the logical step that Tartaros was the best HH era armour despite that retcon not actually being made explicit.

 

In the old fluff Mark VII and Indomitus Armour went together because Mark VII was developed to incorporate advances made as part of the terminator armour project. So Indomitus should appear on the battlefields before Mark VII despite looking like it goes with that mark. I guess they could fix the Tartaros/Mark IV relationship in the same way so that Tartaros predates mark IV and the Mark IV helm is actually an adapted Tartaros one but having Terminator project elements was supposed to be a unique feature of Mark VII. The old Indomitus armour fluff just had too many overlaps with the Mark IV fluff for another Mark IV style terminator armour to exist.

 

The blurb for the plastic Tartaros Terminators describes their armour as one of several concurrently developed suit types so I guess its the Product range branding that's wrong and Indomitus and Tartaros should actually be fighting on the late Great Crusade battlefields at the same time. Which makes no sense as to why Horus would horde the Indomitus for his forces rather than the supposedly superior Tartaros armour which he appears to have let the more dubiously controllable Thousand Sons get most of.

 

The old fluff was pretty clear that all the main 40k era armours were deployed at the Siege of Terra. This doesn't make much sense for a 10,000 year Imperium but whatever. A Siege of Terra army should really be a ton of guys in Mark V lead by sergeants and veterans in hot off the forge Mark VII. You know, nothing like anything Forge World is selling.

 

In Talon of Horus he's walking around in power armour, the cataphractii is still the old heresy armour. Falkus has been out and about in the eye battling...stuff. They're bound to have upgraded a bit due to attrition. Horuses current termie armour is a special artifice armour made specifically for him.

 

Abaddon should have been too big for non-custom armour even in the Great Crusade days and most artwork shows him in custom armour, its just the ForgeWorld model that has him in off the shelf Cataphracti.

Deadass Veteran

Deadass

Posted
Posted

It is; it says so in the first HH black book. No worries there.

 

Besides, we know that there's at least a certain amount of modularity to cataphractii-pattern armor. Look at the Blightlords; all of the marines in that kit were wearing full suits of it at one point. It's still possible that the suit he's wearing in 40k is based around the same exoskeleton.

 

As for Falkus, at the risk of being labeled a terrible nitpicker I wanna say that while it's possible - and definetely likely - for him to wear a jury-rigged subtype of terminator armor, there's no definite proof of him doing so. Also, where's that lore blurb about Horus stockpiling Indomitus armor from? I've never heard about that before.

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