++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Charlo]

Tzeench is pretty cool for Talons, can make them a hardy distraction against AP3. Would be nicer if they had FNP access too.

[Vesper]

List updated to this point, if there any mistake or missed out anything please let me know.

Thanks IP !

 

 

- The Envenomed Heart - The Lions of the Despoiler - Lord Silas, Knight of Thorns  - Vesper

Could you remove "The Envenomed Heart" ? They aren't called that way now, they're juste the lion sof the Despoiler.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I am super tempted by the prospect of turn 1 deep Terminators - so I see you can do the Terminator Annihilation force or the Chosen of Abaddon formation, which allows Abaddon & Friends to magically appear, scatter free, whenever they want?

 

Are either any good? Or too overcosted?

[Sception]

You still have to deal with scatter.  Nothing prevents you from scattering all over the place, potentially mishapping into a rock or enemy model and losing the entire unit.  It's why the Speartips first turn deep strike is a cute gimmick for casual games, but isn't really anything like a functional competitive strategy.

[Gosford]

Are you absolutely committed to MoK on everything?  Remember, Black Legion are one of only two legions with the freedom to bring whatever mix of alignments they feel like.  In particular, we are renowned for bringing out the right specialists for any job.  The 'right' specialist for mace prince is nurgle, and the 'right' specialist for raptor talon is really anything but khorne, given that, if everything goes right, they'll be making disordered charges the turn they deep strike and thus won't benefit from Rage.  That said, theme and aesthetics can't be disregarded, if not for that we'd all be playing Death Guard, if we were playing CSMs at all, so if it must be Khorne then so be it.

 

Regardless, I would swap the CSM squad's plasmagun for a second meltagun.  With their free MoK, you'll likely want to be charging with them anyway, or at least keep that open as an option, so sticking to assault weapons seems the better call.

 

 

For sure, understandable points that I haven't forgotten. This is but one list in my entire Black Legion army. I'm also working on a few other themed Black Legion lists such as Sons of the Cyclops, Children of Torment, Bringers of Decay, etc.

 

My Black Legion army is an ever-growing army that will eventually be my second Apocalypse army, so if I wanted to I could mix up my list with multiple marks. This list is more thematic than anything. #fluffbeforebuff

[Orthon]

Favored of Chaos could be fun out of Traitor's Hate.  That is what I am working on right now.

 

Yes, they are only possessed squads running on foot.  Run them up and hide them behind Chaos Warband rhinos, land raider(s), and things. Equipped with dirge casters of course to block overwatch.

 

 

With Mark of Khorne and Icon of Wrath each 5 man squad will have 25 S6 AP3 I5 attacks rerolling hits (hatred everything) and wounds.  They will delete MEQ units (18 MEQ) and even kill dreadnoughts (3 hull points on AV12) on the charge without them getting to swing back.  Yes, they have major durability per point problems, but their damage output per point is high.  Glass hammer assault list.

 

The Daemon Prince I will make a Nurgle one for the 2+ jink and Black Mace, spell familiar, etc.  Will probably roll up Biomancy or Telepathy for better survivability.  Malefic could be cool since he is a Daemon.  Cursed Earth could be cool increasing invul saves in the same 12" bubble.  Also warp talons won't scatter from the Raptor Talon.

 

Have a lord in the list with Axe of Blind Fury.  So run like 5+ units in the list that delete entire squads of Marines before they get to swing.  Follows the Black Legion tactic of applying constant pressure and ending things in the assault.

 

This list would at least roll over a World Eater's list marching up massed I4 marines up the board at least.

 

 

Or not and get shot off the board by Tau, but it could be fun if you can make it into the assault.

[Dallas Drake]

 

Favored of Chaos could be fun out of Traitor's Hate.  That is what I am working on right now.

 

Yes, they are only possessed squads running on foot.  Run them up and hide them behind Chaos Warband rhinos, land raider(s), and things. Equipped with dirge casters of course to block overwatch.

 

 

With Mark of Khorne and Icon of Wrath each 5 man squad will have 25 S6 AP3 I5 attacks rerolling hits (hatred everything) and wounds.  They will delete MEQ units (18 MEQ) and even kill dreadnoughts (3 hull points on AV12) on the charge without them getting to swing back.  Yes, they have major durability per point problems, but their damage output per point is high.  Glass hammer assault list.

 

The Daemon Prince I will make a Nurgle one for the 2+ jink and Black Mace, spell familiar, etc.  Will probably roll up Biomancy or Telepathy for better survivability.  Malefic could be cool since he is a Daemon.  Cursed Earth could be cool increasing invul saves in the same 12" bubble.  Also warp talons won't scatter from the Raptor Talon.

 

Have a lord in the list with Axe of Blind Fury.  So run like 5+ units in the list that delete entire squads of Marines before they get to swing.  Follows the Black Legion tactic of applying constant pressure and ending things in the assault.

 

This list would at least roll over a World Eater's list marching up massed I4 marines up the board at least.

 

 

Or not and get shot off the board by Tau, but it could be fun if you can make it into the assault.

 

 

I'd like to think it could work but on foot Possessed are pretty slow. I think if it's going to work it'll be in conjunction with a Hounds & Raptor Talon list, that way there is enough pressure on the enemy turn 1 and you can pin units in combat with raptors and warp talons... Or a Cabal getting their hands on Ghost Storm or Soul Switch... Or somehow get Astral Grimoire in the list, though how that could be done I'm unsure of. With everything (Cabal, Raptor Talon, etc) we're talking about 500-600 points formations. What are your thoughts on a list?

[Orthon]

 

Yeah it is expensive in points, but I got the Favored of Chaos box set on discount so it is going to be cheap in $ for me to field.

 

Here is a potential warband + favored of chaos list:

 

 

Traitor's Hate - Black Crusade Detachment

 

Chaos Warband

Lord, terminator, khorne, Axe of Blind Fury

Chaos Space Marines x 5, melta gun, lightning claw, rhino, dirge caster

Chaos Space Marines x 5, melta gun, lightning claw, rhino, dirge caster

Terminators x 4, 2x power fist, khorne

Land Raider, dozer blade, dirge caster

Bikes 2x melta gun

Helbrute

 

Favored of Chaos

Daemon Prince, Nurgle, ML3, Spell Familiar, Black Mace

Possessed, khorne, icon of wrath

Possessed, khorne, icon of wrath

Possessed khorne, icon of wrath

 

1847

 

Some boxes for the possessed to hide behind and some melta, but yeah its not going to win any tournament I think.

 

If playing unbound:

 

 

Raptor Talon

Lord, sigil, jump pack, khrone, Axe of Blind Fury

Warptalons, slanesh

Warptalons, slanesh

Warptalons, slanesh

 

Heldrake Terror Pack

Heldrake

Heldrake

 

Favored of Chaos

Daemon Prince, Nurgle, ML3, Spell Familiar, Black Mace

Possessed, khorne, icon of wrath

Possessed, khorne, icon of wrath

Possessed khorne, icon of wrath

 

1835

 

 

Dumb list but whatever.

[thamier]

hey guys i been thinking small units of hosen with cimbi plasma in dreadclaws? also whats the chances to get deep strong ke lord with preferred ed enemys for rerolls on the gets hot? dont have my book yet and cant rember abaddons was lord trait, i like the idea if slaanesh warp talons deepstriking down with blind and hitting first if you go for targets out of tarrain

[Sception]

Plasma chosen in dreadclaws is too many points, you don't get anywhere near enough punch per point to make that even remotely worthwhile.  Far better off just deep striking termicide that way.

 

Dreadclaw is for melee units.  Deep strike in the open, turbo boost into position, jink till your next turn, then get out and charge.  Do it that way, and it's effectively a somewhat-overpriced assault rhino.  If you try to use it as a drop pod, you'll suffer under it's overbearing points cost and the lack of scatter mitigation which means you just can't reliably land within rapid fire range for plasma without risking a devastating mishap.

 

If you like dreadclaws, then Black Legion are one of the only places where it's worth considering fielding more than one, since the claws that don't automatically land first turn get a 3+ chance to do so anyway.  Heck, if you put your warlord in one, that's up to three you can drop first turn without rolling for it, but...  the points cost is just too prohibitive.  200 odd points per squad, if you're keeping them relatively cheap without being so anemic that they aren't worth delivering in the first place.  Plus a hundred points of transport.  Plus 100 points of warlord, and you're already talking a full 1000 points bound up in three AV12 vehicles.  Even with jink, that doesn't really sound sustainable to me.

 

If we got free transports like the loyalists do, I'd be all over it, But we don't.

 

Mind you, I do like dreadclaws, and I do run one on occasion.  Heck, if Berzerkers could take them as dedicated transports, I'd be tempted to try two, one for each of the obligatory units in the Hounds formation.  But they cant, so... eh.

 

 

Anyway, for plasma chosen, what you really want are rhinos.  Get you into rapid fire about as well, and much much cheaper.  If you do have a few extra points to work with, then what you want is Cypher's fallen formation to infiltrate them.  Or run them in an Alpha Legion detachment or formation for the same reason.

 

I don't much recommend plasma chosen, though.  Havoks, if you can fit them into your list, do the same thing much more efficiently, and even then.... *shrug*.

 

That or termicide.  Shame we only get a choice of obsec OR first turn deep strike with our termies, and not both at the same time.

[jumai]

I wouldn't pimp out a Favored of Chaos DP with level 3, daemon weapon, familiar, etc... he's already a massive target because taking him off the board shuts down three additional units on top of the DP himself. That's a lot of pressure to try to utilize a blingy loadout under.

 

MoK + Icon on the possessed is probably not necessary either. With all 3 mutations and hatred from votlw, even an understrength squad should be wiping MEQ units at I5 on the charge pretty reliably, mark or no mark. Fleet is already a better charge reroll than the icon gives too.

[Gosford]

Anyone find it weird that the black legion formation the tormented is not in the Black Legion spear tip as a AUX choice, the formation isn't that bad making possessed ws5. I5 and give them rending of course it doesn't help make possessed great but some people like me use possessed regardless of how bad they are

I find this very odd as well. I bet it's an oversight, honestly.

[thamier]

Plasma chosen in dreadclaws is too many points, you don't get anywhere near enough punch per point to make that even remotely worthwhile.  Far better off just deep striking termicide that way.

 

Dreadclaw is for melee units.  Deep strike in the open, turbo boost into position, jink till your next turn, then get out and charge.  Do it that way, and it's effectively a somewhat-overpriced assault rhino.  If you try to use it as a drop pod, you'll suffer under it's overbearing points cost and the lack of scatter mitigation which means you just can't reliably land within rapid fire range for plasma without risking a devastating mishap.

 

If you like dreadclaws, then Black Legion are one of the only places where it's worth considering fielding more than one, since the claws that don't automatically land first turn get a 3+ chance to do so anyway.  Heck, if you put your warlord in one, that's up to three you can drop first turn without rolling for it, but...  the points cost is just too prohibitive.  200 odd points per squad, if you're keeping them relatively cheap without being so anemic that they aren't worth delivering in the first place.  Plus a hundred points of transport.  Plus 100 points of warlord, and you're already talking a full 1000 points bound up in three AV12 vehicles.  Even with jink, that doesn't really sound sustainable to me.

 

If we got free transports like the loyalists do, I'd be all over it, But we don't.

 

Mind you, I do like dreadclaws, and I do run one on occasion.  Heck, if Berzerkers could take them as dedicated transports, I'd be tempted to try two, one for each of the obligatory units in the Hounds formation.  But they cant, so... eh.

 

 

Anyway, for plasma chosen, what you really want are rhinos.  Get you into rapid fire about as well, and much much cheaper.  If you do have a few extra points to work with, then what you want is Cypher's fallen formation to infiltrate them.  Or run them in an Alpha Legion detachment or formation for the same reason.

 

I don't much recommend plasma chosen, though.  Havoks, if you can fit them into your list, do the same thing much more efficiently, and even then.... *shrug*.

 

That or termicide.  Shame we only get a choice of obsec OR first turn deep strike with our termies, and not both at the same time.

 

okay didnt think it e that expensive, only thing i am fairly certain of is that the dreadclaw has scatter midigation due to it being a droppod its been clearfied in a faq somewhere, but might still e too expensive

[Judgethunder]

What's this nonsense about scatter mitigation? Luck is part of the game! If they die, it is the will of the chaos gods! If they find their mark, they will bring glory to the warmaster! 


Put them a few inches away and the odds are in your favor! Here's a tip! Place your deep striking models a number of inches away from the enemy equal to your favored God's sacred number!

[totgeboren]

That they don't have access to the "Veterans of the Legion" formation (one Cult unit) is rather odd too, since they are the only Undivided legion who can take even take Cults in the first place. That's one of their perks, strange that they can't even use it.

 

But anyway, feels like the hidden gem of the BL is the synergy between The Hounds of Abaddon, the BL traits and the Speartip special rules.

Getting Crusader (2D6 pick highest for run moves), then Assault with 2D6 reroll one or both die from the Khorne Icon, then Fear and super-Hatred when you hit on top of often getting +1 extra S on top of Furious assault and Rage gives you some scary units.

 

Seriously, even basic Khorne Berzerkers can often move ~11" from move + run, then assault 10". So over a 20" rather eliable threat range in turn 2.

And when they hit they hit with lots of attacks with reroll to-hit on their 3+, and then S6 on top of that.

 

Also, Raptors really benefit as they can move ~17" and then assault 10" turn 2, also hitting with 4 S6 attacks each.

 

Who needs delivery options when our marines can suddenly run faster than ork buggies?

It looks a bit dumb and feel like 3ed all over again (one of the things that broke 3ed), but it's nice to have a way to get into close combat.

[Midnightmare]

Well, the 'Bringers of Despair' topic need more, er, Bringers of Despair! My first three finished to complete my Call of Chaos vow -

 

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh190/MidnightRunner81/image_9.jpeg

 

Over Xmas holidays hopeful to get my other two done. More pics in my log :)

[thamier]

im so gonna join you guys here and your bringers of dispair is awesome! nidnight, i hope you dont mind me doing my take on them too :)

 

also have a idea of a custom model for my legion just need to build it, also very excited getting my TL book today!

[Midnightmare]

Not at all Thamier, these are just basic Terminators with a couple of tweaks. I do have a squad of FW Khorne Terminators sitting ready to be built, and I have a grand plan of Caterphractii Justaerin as they are in Talon of Horus; though with the latter I am awaiting the next instalment of ADB's series as they may not be Abaddon's current bodyguard. Though having seen your amazing Abaddon conversion, I have no fear you would do the Bringers justice!

 

I nearly had my first game with the new rules last night but couldn't attend my club night which was a bit of a sad face, I had planned on using a standard Warband with a CAD for some FW goodies but couldn't make it :(

[Marshal Loss]

Looking good, Midnight Runner. :)

[thamier]

just came back home, i went past the local hobbystore to pick up my TL book and the chaos apocrypha buuuut seems gw didnt send all the had ordered so no books for me until thursday :(

[Judgethunder]

Now what's truly insulting is not the power of our detachment, but our sorry selection of artifacts! What overpriced rubbish!

[Charlo]

Those are really cool TDA, Midnight runner! Especially loving the orange plasma!

[Carrack]

I gotta agree on the orange plasma. Those blades look great as well.

[Sception]

Very nice terminators.  I love the corrosion on the metal.

[40kChrista]

Glad to see this resurrected again!  Definitely ok with the thread name.  

 

@Insane Psychopath - If you could please edit my old screen name to my current name, Grimgorn to 40kChris, from The Severed Chains warband that would be awesome.

 

Just got my book yesterday, so I've had a chance to sort of glance through it but won't have a chance to really dig into it until Wednesday or so when I'm done for the semester.