++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Midnightmare]

Excerpt from the rulebook: "Unlike other Detachments, Formations can also be taken as part of Unbound armies. If they are, their units maintain the special rules gained for being part

of the Formation."

 

ObSec is a special rule that comes from the chaos warband specifically in this instance, so running it in an unbound force makes no difference.

That I didn't know :) well, well, well.....no more CAD just to fit in my FW goodies as I run the Warband for my ObSec, the CAD is just a tax of Cultists.

 

To the calculator, Batman!!

[dakkamasta]

Haha glad to be of some help. It was a massive light bulb moment when I realised this. I made me especially happy because the other Legions don't really benefit from this method as much as we do as they get a lot more from their detachment bonuses.

 

I got so excited as it meant my rapiers, Be'lakor, soul grinders and most importantly my typhon heavy siege tank can come out to play without any tax units included.

 

Also, despite that some people may consider this to be cheesy, I'm pretty sure that after you take your warband you can take single units from other legions. Eg. a Thousand Sons exalted sorcerer on a disc with the new ap 2 daemon force weapon, keep one of your units unmarked such as bikes and he can join them, or a unit of nurgle obliterators with the death guard rules for FnP and fearless. Again some people may have a problem with this but I see at as being justifiable in a Black Legion army considering we are supposed to have forces of nearly every other legion under our command.

 

After all, its chaos, how cheesy can we really get?

Edited December 16, 2016 by dakkamasta

[A D-B]

Guys and gals - does anyone know where to get any decent Black Legion transfers? I know there's the ancient and simple Chaos Marine Transfer Sheet (even in the new Rubricae box) which is pretty basic and low-quality compared to the new FW Legion sheets, and even compared to the new boxed set sheets for Tau, Space Marines, AdMech, etc.

 

The Sons of Horus Legion ones aren't really right, as they have the sleepy-looking Forest Whitaker Eye of Horus, not the wide-eyed one in the centre of the yellow Eightfold Path star.

[Hasrothrin]

I am afraid not A D-B.  The only one available is the one which comes with the CSM tac box i.e. the sickly yellow fiddly to fit beggar.  I would avoid that option personally as they don't look great when applied.  Third party, make a stencil or freehand it are probably your best options.

 

Cheers

 

Hasro

[A D-B]

I am afraid not A D-B.  The only one available is the one which comes with the CSM tac box i.e. the sickly yellow fiddly to fit beggar.  I would avoid that option personally as they don't look great when applied.  Third party, make a stencil or freehand it are probably your best options.

 

Cheers

 

Hasro

 

I had a deep, dark sense of dread that this would be the case. Let the sad times begin.

[Midnightmare]

dakkamasta; not at all mate, I totally would never have realised this! Although it is not a way I would play every game, I think it massively improves my options as I too am also lucky enough to play in a 'fairly' non-cheese group. I say 'fairly', as we do have out moments :D It is just nice to that we actually have even more options than I thought :) Trez awesome!!

 

A D-B; unfortunately, the transfers you speak of are the only ones I know of mate. However, there is a denizen of this very forum who does actually make decal sheets that you can print yourself. If you fire Carlson793 a pm he should be able to help :tu:

 

EDIT - I should say his work is really great, check this out as one of his many examples, such as his recent Luna Wolves

Edited December 16, 2016 by Midnight Runner

[Sception]

Here is an article on making your own:

 

http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2012/05/how-to-make-waterslide-transfers-decals.html

[totgeboren]

I'm was a bit unsure about how Unbound and Legion rules work, so I looked through the rules.

 

It says rather clearly that "Any Detachment with the CSM faction can be from one of the 9 legions" and what differentiates an Unbound army from a Battle-forged one is that in a Battle-forged army all units belong to a detachment.

 

Also note that all the Formations have the 'Formation' symbol, while some also have restriction text that says "This is a Black Legion Detachment". The Rulebook also says that Formations are a special type of Detachment.

 

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that units can only be of one of the Legions if purchased as part of a Formation/Detachemnt.

 

For example, an Exalted Sorcerer is a HQ, not a formation, so if you buy just a single one of those for your Unbound army, he would not be able to be a TS Sorcerer, and so would not gain access to the TS relics. Magnus the Red bought as a separate choice, not part of a detachment would not get the TS Blessing buff (since he would not be a TS unit).

 

Same if you want a coven of WB Sorcerers to do some summoning for you. They must be purchased as part of a formation/detachment to be able to qualify for legion rules. Otherwise they would just be a bunch of separate basic CSM Sorcerers.

Edited December 16, 2016 by totgeboren

[Gosford]

...they have the sleepy-looking Forest Whitaker Eye of Horus, not the wide-eyed one in the centre of the yellow Eightfold Path star.

 

annnnnnd I just spit my coffee out. Thanks, Aaron...

[Sception]

I was under the impression that, in an unbound army, all units that are part of the same faction are considered to be a single detachment?  Am AFB, though, so cannot verify....

[dakkamasta]

Ok so no mixing and matching of different units from different legions that is fair enough.

 

Formations however are described as being the exception in that you get the full benefits meaning you can be unbound with a formation as long as the other Codex: Chaos Space Marines units are also black legion.

[totgeboren]

I was under the impression that, in an unbound army, all units that are part of the same faction are considered to be a single detachment?  Am AFB, though, so cannot verify....

Nah, p.117 first explains Unbound, which is simply using the models you like, and Battle-forged, where all models must be part of a Detachment.

If Unbound was just a single Detachment without special rules, then Unbound would also be Battle-forged by definition. P.118 continues to separate Unbound as not having everything within detachments, while Battle-forged uses detachments.

 

However, there is one sentence on p.117 that muddles the water a bit (in typical GW fashion). It says that: "If you used the Unbound method, then once you choose your Warlord, every model in your army that has the same faction as your Warlord is considered to be part of the Primary Detachment for all rules purposes. Of course, in an Unbound army, these models are not bound by any Detachment restrictions and do not receive Command Benefits."

I mean, that could be read as say, make a WE army, include a lone Slaanesh psyker. Now your army is Unbound. Select Warlord, and pick your WE Lord. Now all models with the CSM faction are "considered to be part of the Primary Detachment for all rules purposes. Of course, in an Unbound army, these models are not bound by any Detachment restrictions", so now you don't need to care about the WE restrictions on Marks and Psykers, so your MoS Sorcerer gets Adamantium will, Fearless and Furious Charge, since he is a World Eater.

 

Of course, this cannot be the intent, since it makes Unbound totally silly. Though it still blocks you from picking a single TS Sorcerer to go with your BL army.

 

I think what they mean to say is that in regards to allies and such, all models that share the same faction as your Warlord are considered to be the 'main' army. If you have models with other factions in your force their interaction with the main army would be determined by the ally matrix. Not that all models that are the same faction as your Warlord are considered to belong to the same Detachment, since then a single-faction army could never be Unbound.

 

But an Unbound army can include Legion units, by using formations and declaring those formations as being from a Legion. You would just lose out on any Command Benefits, like Tip of the Spear, Fear & Crusader and so on.

 

I think what they mean to say is that in regards to allies and such, all models that share the same faction as your Warlord are considered to be the 'main' army. If you have models with other factions in your force their interaction with the main army would be determined by the ally matrix.

Edited December 16, 2016 by totgeboren

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

...they have the sleepy-looking Forest Whitaker Eye of Horus, not the wide-eyed one in the centre of the yellow Eightfold Path star.

annnnnnd I just spit my coffee out. Thanks, Aaron...

Abbadon's is wide eyed because he woke as heck unlike horus.

[dakkamasta]

Totgeboren you make a good point. However the one thing that still seems unclear is the part about units from the same faction being part of the primary or 'main' detachment. Since detachments are useless in an unbound army, that means outside of formations, mixing 2 or more legions is impossible using unbound. Therefore due to the use of CADs and allied detachments, its actually easier to mix legions in a battleforged army than an unbound one which defeats the purpose of unbound. However Im not saying that a world eater should benefit from death guard legion rules either.

 

To be honest i think its an oversight in the rules since no other faction except space marines have a mechanic that separates one faction into multiple detachments whilst still counting as the same faction. A comparison can be made to the old black legion book or crimson slaughter. They didn't count as the same faction but instead were battle brothers, which meant you could bring a single unit in an unbound army and it was fine. Just an interesting thought.

 

If you play with friends i think you could discuss it amongst each other, since it could be argued both ways but RAW it seems you cant mix legions using unbound.

[Khornestar]

the sleepy-looking Forest Whitaker Eye of Horus

 

 

 

...they have the sleepy-looking Forest Whitaker Eye of Horus, not the wide-eyed one in the centre of the yellow Eightfold Path star.

 

annnnnnd I just spit my coffee out. Thanks, Aaron...

 

Losing it over that one, haha!

Edited December 16, 2016 by Venomlust

[Gosford]

[Excessus]

There, updated the thread's tags properly...

[vharing]

I'm going to add my warband to the tally.  The Fists of Hate, led by Krogar the Collector of Skulls.  That said in the tournament I'm in this weekend, Abaddon kicked @ss in my third game.  He, by himself killed most of my opponents Blood Angels army.  The guy was running a Golden Host and a Lost Brotherhood.  The rest of my army died in hand to hand by the end of turn three but Abaddon stuck around until turn 5, taking out almost thirty models before going down.

[Lagrath]

ADB, out of curiosity were you working on Black Legion models of your own to get in the mood while drafting Talon of Horus? I haven't seen your models before on your Facebook page.

[thamier]

have anyone tested terminator annihilation force with the first round deepstrike? that combined with raptor talon and terminator sorc cabal?

[Sception]

Considering that TAF and raptor talon each are running about 400 points minimum, plus another 100 if you tool out their characters at all, plus you're talking 500 odd points of cabal, plus 5 or 600 points of core formation if you're scrimping, you're really going to struggle to fit all that in under 2000 points.  I don't think anyone's done it yet, though I'm curious to see people try.

 

.................

 

After looking at my own previous list write ups, and realizing how many models they would require me to paint, I've decided to par back to a smaller list that emphasizes only unit I've already painted:

 

Black Legion CAD:

 

Lord, MoK, sigil, either AoBF or spineshard blade & meltabombs, aesthetically I prefer the latter, but....

9 Chosen, MoK, icon of wrath, 1x power axe, 4x melta gun, champ with power axe

Dreadclaw

 

10 CSMs, 2x plasmagun, 4x bolter, 3x ccwep, champion with power sword & meltabombs

Rhino with dozer, dirge, and havoc launcher

 

10 CSMs, 2x plasmagun, 4x bolter, 3x ccwep, champion with power sword & meltabombs

Rhino with dozer, dirge, and havoc launcher

 

Too small to really be functional, but all I have to paint are some meltaguns and some finishing touches on the transports, plus maybe some alternate weapon arms for my chosen champ model, who may be filling in for the lord in this list.  I have a painted lord, but part of one of his horns broke off and was lost in transport.  Plus he's got a sword, not an axe, and the axe of blind fury is a dramatically better weapon than any sword options open.  The chosen champ has a sword, too, but his arms are magnetized.

Edited December 20, 2016 by malisteen

[thamier]

im not sure, and its only because someone told me i wasent allowed to do so, but if you buy close combat weapons for chaos marines is it allowed to only buy for some or do you have to by ccw for the whole unit?

[durdle-durdle]

im not sure, and its only because someone told me i wasent allowed to do so, but if you buy close combat weapons for chaos marines is it allowed to only buy for some or do you have to by ccw for the whole unit?

Its on a model per model basis.

[Sception]

It's model per model.  And if you're asking about my list in particular, I didn't 'buy' any ccweps, rather just traded some bolters for them, a free option.

 

And not one I recommend, either, it's a wysiwyg thing.  Under the 4e book, all chaos marines just had BP/CCW/Boltgun by default, and since the models didn't all have each this was commonly represented by mixing some bolter guys and some bp/ccwep guys into your units.  Which I did, and now almost a decade later I'm stuck with some less-than-ideal equipment distributions.

 

Way back in 3.5, chaos marines had close combat weapons and either bolters or bolt pistols, no option for both at all, and you did have to pick for the entire unit, you couldn't mix and match within a unit.  Some people still remember it that way, even though it hasn't been like that for longer than some younger 40k players have been alive at this point.

Edited December 20, 2016 by malisteen

[thamier]

it sucks you are stuck with models that are differcult to field, but its awsome that the ccw is per model basis, then i could have made many of my lists more optimiced all along, you guys are a great help, thank you Edited December 21, 2016 by thamier