++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Sception]

Anyone getting hyped to expand their Black Legion forces for eighth edition? I'm hopeful (first step to disappointment and all) and am building a shadow war team to get back into painting.

 

Expand?  Nah.  I've got too much stuff waiting in assorted boxes of loose bits & broken pieces already.  But paint?  Maybe, if I can get commission work off my back (I say that like it's a big burden, but in truth it's been a fun excuse to paint cool FW models I never would have had a chance to mess with otherwise, while getting paid for the privilege), then I would like to work on getting some more of my models painted.  Maybe spruce up some of the models I've painted already, but that have fallen into a bit of disrepair, like my DV chaos lord.  Though, on the other hand, I'm not sure what I'd do with him in the new system, what with units still wanting to come in batches of 5, and common transports hot having extra room for characters.  Maybe if by some miracle the dreadclaw rules give it capacity 11 or 12 instead of 10.....

 

But yeah, I do plan on painting some more.  Maybe start a new 'Black Like My X' thread once I actually have something to show.

[Sception]

I'm really liking the rules for Abaddon in 8th - apart from that I think Drachnyen should be dealing mortal wounds.  I through up a sketch of a 2k army built around him & a deep striking termie retinue over on the army list subforum: LINK.  Any thoughts on the list?  Or on how you'd go about fielding the Warmaster in the new rule set?

[Midnightmare]

As a person who uses the Despoiler often, I have to admit to liking his rules. His to hit re-rolls to Black Legion and the morale bubble are great, especially when combined with the no scatter deep strikes of the edition. I plan on using a sorcerer as a second HQ and two squads of Terminators as a core - one for use with Warptime the other Khorne marked with a banner for lucky charges. I may even go full on and build a third squad :D

 

I know what you mean about the mortal wounds, it's supposed to be the most powerful weapon in the galaxy after all, but I will be ok with it providing they aren't given out to every loyalist or Eldar special snowflake with a fancy weapon. His actual melee output is quite similar to the last edition really, just with better options of getting stuck in. I have always deep struck with his Bringers to varying degrees of success as it is more thematic so looking forward to a convincing speartip!

[Sception]

Were I writing the rules for Drachnyen, it would be a single bonus attack, hitting on 2+ with no modifications or re-rolls allowed like Khârn.  On a miss, Abaddon takes a mortal wound.  On a hit, the target takes D6 mortal wounds, or 2d6 drop-the-lowest against imperial targets.  Less maximum damage than the current weapon, but more of a threat against high toughness big things and characters with good invulnerable saves, and about even against single wound infantry since mortal wounds roll over.

[Midnightmare]

I think they have just went with generic 'Daemon Weapon' apart from the multiple wounds it inflicts really, your version would certainly be fun and quite fitting for the End of Empires though!

[Sception]

Went to release day at the local(ish) GW.  I had scrambled to put together about 100 power rating, but the place was so crowded that no bigger games were possible.  For the first few hours, all people could play was single min size infantry squads.  Later it cleared out enough to get in a 25 power rating game.  Just small games to start getting a feel for the core rules, I got one of each.

 

First, the basic infantry game.  I had a squad of 5 chaos marines, with a plasma gun, undivided icon w/ BP/CS, 2 basic bolter buddies, and a power sword & bolt pistol champion, up against 5 genestealers on a cluttered cityfight board.  Due to plenty of LoS blocking terrain and the stealer's good movement & ability to run and charge I didn't get any shots off before they charged into melee.  Should have been bad news for me, but I got a couple lucky kills during overwatch, and the stealers flubbed most of their wounds in the first round which gave me enough of an edge to come out ahead after a couple rounds of melee.  My champion was the last thing left on our little table square.

 

The 25 power rating game was against tesla-happy necrons, including a lord on the floaty chariot, a second floaty chariot with 8 shot testla cannon, and a squad of immortals.  I ran:

 

Lord (power sword, bolt pistol)

5 chosen (p.sword champ, 2xp.axe, 2x meltagun, undivided icon)

Rhino w/ combi bolter & havoc launcher

5 chaos marines (champ w/ psword & bpistol, 1x csword & bpistol, 2x bolter buddies, autocannon, undivided icon)

10 cultists with a flamer

 

Deployed the CSMs in a crater, lord & chosen in the rhino bubble wrapped by cultists.  Crons went first, moved both sleds real close, ran up the immortals, & wiped out my cultists in the shooting phase, put a single wound on the rhino.

 

On my turn, I disembarked the lord & chosen, moved them towards the lord sled, put a wound on it with the autocannon squad, put 11 wounds on it with two melta hits... then its magic force field nullified both by rolling under the damage.  The rhino put some wounds on the immortals with a good round of fire from the havoc launcher.  Charged the boss with the rhino to absorb overwatch, and the lord, but the chosen failed their charge.  In combat it put a couple wounds on my lord, took one each from the lord and the rhino.

 

His turn the sled withdrew and it and the other sled unloaded into the chosen, but I rolled fantastic on my 3+ saves and only lost two.  Since both sleds had the magic force field, I dropped the meltaguns.  immortals could only shoot the rhino, for all their shots they only put one more wound on it.

 

My turn I shot everything at the lord sled again, picked off a few more wounds, charged in with rhino, lord & chosen.  did a couple more wounds in melee, he put a couple more wounds on my lord, dropping him to one.  His turn he stayed engaged to finish off the lord, moved the other sled around to shoot at the CSMs but they shrugged all its shots thanks to their 2+ save in cover.  In combat he did kill my lord, but then the chosen and rhino got revenge, taking out the lord's sleds 4 remaining wounds with some lucky rolls.  The rhino, mvp of the game, got the last hit in.

 

Unfortunately, he had to leave at this point, so we had to call the game early, but it was enough of a game to come to four conclusions:

 

1) Rhinos are good

2) Lords with power swords are uninspiring combatants,  If only we had relic blades, or master crafted weapons, or daemonic equivalents of the same.  Our codex can't come soon enough, but I fear generic CSMs may not be on the short list.  I'm really going to have to get over the DV lord being rather lackluster and get some alternative HQs painted up.

3) the necron vehicle stuff with magic force fields are super annoying.  If you go in with weaker weapons they shrug off most the damage and slowly regenerate the rest, if you go in with big stuff that causes a lot of damage per hit they ignore it with the field, whatever it was called.  Requires high rate of fire, high ap, high strength, low damage weapons to deal with, not exactly a common combination of traits.

 

Not a lot to go on, but I did only get in a few rounds of playing.  Sadly Abby did not get to take the field, but hopefully some time soon.

[Excessus]

It's time to show your allegience!

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334822-diu-ad-belli-legion-war/

[Midnightmare]

@Malisteen - sounds like fun, even if you didn't quite get to play what you wanted at least you have dipped your toe in the new edition. I am hoping for my first game early next week. Download my rules, got the Chaos Index and now awaiting my FW book *rubs hands together*

 

@Excessus - for defs going to take part, just have to decide what to paint! I was going for a full squad of Khorne Terminators but I may just do my new Termi Sorcerer first as time free time is at a premium and I also need to 're-arm' my Hades Rapiers as we appear to have lost them :( Just a bit unsure whether to go quad Heavy Bolter on them both or go for Laser Destroyers. Going to miss my Hades bros, they did some good work!

[Sception]

Had my first game with the despoiler, 2k vs. iron hands.  Was an abject failure, I hardly killed anything and was wiped out to a man.  Was more an exploratory venture on my part, though, so I'm not upset.

 

My List:

- Abby

- Termi Sorc (force axe)

- 5 Terminators (1x dual claw champ, 2x cmelt & cfist, 2x cplas & pfist, khorne icon)

 

- Lord (fist, bpistol)

- 9 Chosen (champ w/ psword & bpistol, 2x paxe & bpistol, 3x meltagun, 3x bpistol & csword, slaanesh icon)

- Dreadclaw

 

- 10 CSMs (champ w/ psword & bpistol, 2x plasmagun, 4x bolter, 3x bpistol & csword)

- rhino (havoc launcer & 1x cbolter)

 

- 10 CSMs (champ w/ psword & bpistol, 2x plasmagun, 4x bolter, 3x bpistol & csword)
- rhino (havoc launcer & 1x cbolter)

 

- 20 Cultists (champ w/ shotgun, 2x flamer, 17x autpistol & ccwep)

 

- 5 havocs (champ w/ bpistol & csword, 4x autocannon)

 

 

His list:

 

- techmarine

- 2 predators

- a couple tac squads

- bolt rifle primaris

- plasma primaris

- deredeo dreadnought

- contemptor dreadnought

- Ironclad Dreadnought

- Regular Dreadnought

- Chaplain Dreadnought

 

No mission, just kill stuff & acclimate to 8e core rules.  My plan had been to deploy the claw and only reserve the termis, but i was afraid of all his shooting, so i reserved it too.  Board was heavily cluttered with ruins.  Havocs deployed in the upper level of a building, cultists out of sight below them.  due to windows and such, I couldn't really hid the rhinos.  Everything else reserved.  His stuff deployed in a mess in the middle, sheltering the predators and his deredeo with his infantry, and put his dreadnoughts & techmarine far forward to one side.

 

Luck was very much on his side throughout, starting with him successfully stealing the initiative, killing my entire havoc squad despite their covered position and dropping one of the rhinos to three wounds, and spreading out / advancing in a way that left no room for reserves in the middle.  On my turn I dropped the terminators on the flank with the dreadnoughts and the claw & chosen dropped in his back corner on the opposite flank where his wrap was thin enough to put their meltaguns in range of a predator, and give the dreadclaw an admittedly long range charge attempt.  My rhinos moved up and popped smoke, cultists moved up through the ruins, sorcerer warptimed the terminators into easy charge range.

 

In the shooting phase, my terminators opened up on the contemptor.  Only one meltagon and one overcharged plasma shot hit, despite abaddon's influence, of which only the melta wounded, though at least it caused 6 damage.  The plasmagun that missed compounded its failure by exploding - 1 & 2 followed by 1 & 1 after the reroll.  On the other end, the chosen fired three meltas at the predator, hit with two, and chewed through half its wounds.

 

The terminators charged into the contemptor & the regular dreadnought, losing another terminator to overwatch.  Only one chainfist got through, against the contemptor, the rest of their attacks failed to hit (they were now outside of Abby's influence), failed to wound, or were saved.  I at least got lucky with invulnerable saves, and only lost one more terminator.  On the opposite flank I tried for a lucky charge with the dreadclaw against a tac squad and a predator.  He hit overwatch with both lascannon shots, dropping the claw to a single wound, and I failed the charge.  The chosen tried for a charge against the tac squad, lost two to overwatch, and also failed their charge.

 

On his turn 2 he finished off the dreadclaw, killed the chosen, put a wound on the lord, killed the injured rhino, brought the other rhino to a single wound, killed a handful of cultists with the ironclad, and killed the remaining terminators in close combat, consolidating away from abaddon.  Things were not looking well.

 

On my turn Abby & the sorcerer moved up on the dreadnoughts, the CSMs from the surviving rhino disembarked, & moved into fire & assault range of his dreadnoughts.  The cultists advanced into an ruin overlooking the dreadnoughts, the CSMs from the destroyed rhino moved into cover, and the lord moved up towards the tac squad.  In the psychic phase, the sorcerer warp-timed abaddon to put him from a probable assaut range go a guaranteed one.  In the shooting phase, Abby, the sorcerer, and the CSMs all focused on the contemptor, and managed to take it out with some lucky shots.  The cultists flamed the chaplain dread hoping to cause a wound.  They didn't.  The CSMs in cover took a few wounds off the tac squad the lord was about to charge.

 

In assault, the lord charged the tac squad, the rhino charged the ironclad, Abaddon and the sorcerer charged the regular dreadnought - eating 3 wounds to more absurd overwatch luck, and the CSMs charged in against the regular dread and the ironclad.  Then his techmarine and chaplain dreadnought heroic interventioned into abaddon - something I forgot they could do.  Whoops!

 

In combat Abaddon killed the techmarine and took half the wounds off the chaplain dreadnought, thanks in part to me remembering the 'death to the false emperor' rule - the only time I remembered it in the entire game.  The rhino and CSM did nothing.  The ironclad killed the rhino and a few CSMs.  The regular & chaplain dread finished off abaddon.  Damage 3 is a real sore point for him, and I couldn't make an invulnerable save to save his life.  The lord killed most of the tac squad, leaving 2 alive.

 

 

His turn 3 he withdrew the remaining tacs, the injured predator killed the lord, the rest of his shooting killed most of the cultists and CSMs - even with cover I couldn't pass a save at all.  In melee his regular dread killed the sorcerer and the chaplain dread and ironclad killed the rest of that CSM squad.  In the battleshock phase I lost the few CSMs and Cultists I had left.

 

 

In the end, I killed two units - the contemptor and the techmarine, and he wiped out my entire army.  Luck played a big part - my luck with saves both regular and invulnerable was abysmal, and in addition to seizing initiative he also scored a frankly ludicrous number of hits on overwatch.  I think his list was also a lot more competitive than mine - which was dictated more on what I happened to have with me to play with and was kind of stretching for 2k points.  But most of the failure was my own fault - I sorely underestimated many of his forces, forgot several rules, never once remembered to use my command points, didn't really have the stats down (I mistakenly thought chainfists were damage 3 instead of 2 until it came time to attack with them, and mistakenly thought dreadnought fists were damage d3 instead of just 3 until Abaddon was surrounded by them)

 

 

All in all it was a fun game, even if the outcome was shameful and absolute failure on my part.  For now, I think I'll stick to smaller games until I have a better handle on the rules, though.  That, and work on some longer ranged support - I really had nothing that could reach his predators and deredeo to meaningfully threaten them, leaving them free to just chew through my army.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Preview, both audio & pdf are on the Black Library web site now

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/coming-soon/august/black-legion-ebook.html

 

I'm also hoping with the annoucment today on codex, that we get some new models.  If this happen I'm bring back my very old Black Legion warband in a all new up to date to carry on there glory, force.
 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/

[Sception]

I very much doubt we'll see new models, but I look forward to seeing our legion rules.

 

And the preview was fantastic.  Khayon is an amazing character, and the preview perfectly establishes his role in the Black Legion and how terrifyingly effective he is in that role - even when he isn't quite successful.

[dakkamasta]

Having had my first test game I can share some insights:

 

-Abaddon is a freak of nature. He has it all, damage output, survivability, excellent buffs (if not the best buffs). Get a sorcerer near him and warptime him around and he's unstoppable. Killing St. Celestine and her geminie in 1 fight phase was very satisfying.

 

- Cult troops are amazing aswell, I used berzerkers and noise marines to great effect and they got even better near abbadon (i ran them as black legion as my elites).

 

- As said above, rhinos are great. Durable enough, but mainly they're really good for zipping around and tying up units to force them to fall back.

 

- Oblits are dissappointing. They're limited to anti-elite and anti-tank/MC with their guns and they still don't do the latter well. For the price I don't like the randomness and not having the power fist to fall back on really hurts.

 

- Sorcerers with warptime are worth their weight in gold. They didn't kill much but slingshotting my assault units into combat pretty much won me the game. I'll be testing a Prince out soon aswell as an inbetween lord/sorc replacement.

 

It was a 11-1 victory by the way against blood angels. It was eternal war: retrieval mission.

[Sception]

With abaddon - watch out for anything with Damage 3 or greater, and try to kill it before it has a chance to swing.  Otherwise, it'll take him down pretty quick.  Damage D3 he can usually shrug off well enough, but 7 wounds really isn't all that many against opponents stripping them off 2 at a time.  Definitely don't engage multiple of such threats with him at once.  I learned that the hard way when I had abby charge a contemptor, taking some wounds on the way in to lucky overwatch, and then had a chaplain dread heroic intervention into the fight.  He could have survived if I rolled better on invulnerable saves, but as nice as 4++ is, you don't want to lean on it that hard.

[Kaldoth]

- Cult troops are amazing aswell, I used berzerkers and noise marines to great effect and they got even better near abbadon (i ran them as black legion as my elites).

 

Just curious as to how you ran your Noise Marines and for what role? I have three squads on my work bench right now waiting for the black and gold. I was planning on using them as objective sitters, MSU with 4x Sonic Blasters and a Blast Master. I figured with their special rule they would be best kitted out for ranged combat in small squads to avoid morale issues.

[Prot]

I helped a friend tweak his list closer to my own Abe based list and I think it changed the outcome of his next game.

 

Abaddon is a lot of fun and he isn't just playing the part anymore, he owns it if used correctly. There's a temptation to cannonball him. I think conservatively using his Aura in conjunction with his personal beatstick makes him a lynchpin of the Black Legion. This is nothing new, it just feels great to see it is a reality now.

 

Massed, crappy firepower is a real thing in 8th. I've faced conscript spam for example and that crud seems to chew away elite forces pretty well now. It's hard to get rid of too.

 

Otherwise I give Abaddon the green light in most situations. I agree the Oblts have been underwhelming in every attempt. I just wish there was a better option but it appears the combi Termies are the go to now. I'm just stuck on troops. The army gets small fast, and cultists are just not really functional for me.

[Midnightmare]

I played my first game this week, and Abaddon played a big part for me coming down first turn with some plasma Termies, who were sick with his aura. I am liking the new deepstrike rules, which is the thing for me. We actually have a proper speartip! He is no slouch in combat too so a big thumbs up from me :tu:

 

For troops, I used two five man CSM squads in rhinos who just butted about objectives as that's all I can see them doing atm. The rest of the army was melta bikers (to support the Terminators and The Boss), FW Quad Heavy Bolter Rapiers and a Butcher Cannon/Heavy Bolter/Greater Havoc Deredeo, who was MVP. List was 80 Power Level/1500pts and was just a test really, but it did quite well against horde Orks (6-6 draw)

 

@ Kaldoth - I don't run Noise Marines, but if I did I think that is how I would go with them :tu: Children of Torment FTW B)

[dakkamasta]

 

- Cult troops are amazing aswell, I used berzerkers and noise marines to great effect and they got even better near abbadon (i ran them as black legion as my elites).

Just curious as to how you ran your Noise Marines and for what role? I have three squads on my work bench right now waiting for the black and gold. I was planning on using them as objective sitters, MSU with 4x Sonic Blasters and a Blast Master. I figured with their special rule they would be best kitted out for ranged combat in small squads to avoid morale issues.

 

 

I ran them as a 10 man squad, 9 sonic blasters, 1 blastmaster and a power sword on the champ. These are the only models I have and that's how they're modeled so I thought I'd try them WYSIWYG before i started doing weapon proxy's. They mainly stayed behind the main force but not very far back. I wanted them to utilise abbadon's aura where possible and get sorcerer buffs so I saw them as a defensive-mid unit. They did very well, their shooting is great and even in assault they can contribute decently well. I shot a full volley at Celestine one turn and then realised they were close enough to charge some Vanguard Vets that were fighting my sorcerer and they killed 5 of them, not bad for a shooty unit.

 

MSU could also work well. If i had more models I would consider it, but I have to work with what I have. I didn't find morale to be too big an issue as they didn't get focused too much but that was because the rest of my list was very aggresive so they weren't the top priority, especially since killing them meant getting shot again (I really love that rule).

[El_Dicko]

Ahoi! So, last army I was working on when I quit and went to college some 15 years ago was Black Legion. Started collecting again last year but haven't painted anything. Got the 7th Ed codex, totally taken with the idea of the Forgotten Company(lost Luna Wolves welcomed into Abbadons gang). Anyone seen this done or have cool ideas? I have a bunch of "knight" bikers and generally love the idea of feral chaos marines. Also don't partial to painting dirty white instead of black(although my nurgle

Dudes will all be Bringers of Decay). Cheers! Hope to have some pics soon!

[Sception]

Well, if they've been welcomed into the black, I'd assume they'll be repainting their armor sooner or later.

 

I also like the idea of feral world chaos marine warriors, and have incorporated some conversions based in part on fantasy models into my army following that theme:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How effortful the conversions are depends on how far you want to go with them / how many low tech elements you're willing to leave behind.  The blood reavers to berzerkers were simple, just add chosen backpacks, cut down their shield gauntlets, and add pistols (though I'll probably go back to replace the pistols with chain swords, and the axe heads with explicitly chain-axe heads, before painting them).  They'd be considerably more trouble if I felt a need to replace their leather boots with power armored boots, or replace chainmail in their armor joints with ribbed soft armor, as I did with the counts-as Huron in the last picture, if you look at the arm holding the axe.

[El_Dicko]

I like that look, for sure! Reminds me of the sketches in the 2nd ed codex. I was thinking Luna Wolves scheme with the trim and soft armour a bit more metallic, then yellow hoses and such here and there and black shoulder pads with typical yellow heraldry to represent them "taking the black". I've got all the AoS starter Khorne stuff waiting to be converter at well as a box of Forsaken.

[Midnightmare]

So.......good time to have taken The Black?

 

Having read and digested what we get I the new Codex, I have to admit the things that I use seem to have come off pretty well - Abaddon, Terminators, a Deredeo, a Sicaran and Rapier Laser Destroyers are my back bone - Abaddon seems to have come off particularly well and the strategium for firing a Helbrute twice is going to make my Dodo a monster! I don't use a great deal of troops, so the run/shoot thing won't affect me a great deal though in my last game I dropped The Warmaster and his Bringers to clear out the back lines after which they did with aplomb then they had to leg it back into the fray, so the run and shoot thing would have helped then :D The +1 leadership thing, I like. Anything to help with my rolling!

 

The Eye of Night, D3 mortal wounds? Mortal wounds seem pretty good this edition but it doesn't seem great. I will no doubt try it, but I preferred some of our other artefacts which where mostly cost prohibitivemorethan anything.

 

The Black Legion Warlord Trait is pretty solid, 5+ Death to the False Emperor? Yes please, and if you don't play imperials and don't take Abaddon then you can pick something else. I used to like the 'Endless Hatred' and the DttFE is a decent replacement.

 

Overall I am fairly happy and positive, not top of the pile but decent enough imhowith plenty to work with.

 

Added to the Codex, a certain sequel novel is out imminently, which I CANNOT WAIT for. So, good time tohave taken The Black :D

[Ulfast]

I have also cosen to go black and I really like the things we got in the new codex. Seems many thinks our legion is weak but +1 leadership, 5+ to get a extra attack against imperial (that are more or less 50% or even more of all opponents) together with making rapid fire weapon assult (if we want) give us lot of intersting options to use in many diffrent situation. Together with a new book from ADB we are in a good position.

 

But i´m wondering why so few chose to play BL and why we BL players are not so active in supporting our legion (it seems so for me at least)?

[Ulfast]

Had my first fight yesterday with the new codex rules for Black legions. And i must say that I really like what we got. +1 leadership save several of my units and I didnt lose a single model to failed moraltest. I never really got the chance to try out our other rule with rapid fire weapon becoming assault but I think it will come in handy. Tomorrow is my second game, see what happends then.

[Syrakul]

IMO I think the fluff for Black Legion was always bland and Abaddon just seemed like a raging jerk with the whole 13 crusades and stuff, though I didn't go out of my way to find fluff. When the FW Horus Heresy started, focussing from the start on Sons of Horus it was much more fascinating. Starting from there and now getting better insight into Abaddons transformation of the legion in the recent books: Talon of Horus, The Black Legion (just begin first one) has really sold them to me, both from a HH and 40k perspective. It's inspiringly evil now fighting under the Black Flag, and feels like more than a color scheme.

 

Short answer, bland concept needed stronger fluff to make them interesting and worth playing.

[Ulfast]

I really like the original fluff about Black Legion from slaves to darkness and ADB great book, Talon of Horus is a very good book for BL fans (can´t wait to get my hands on the next book). But I agree that BL has had to much focus on Abaddon and we could really need more focus on difrent commanders and there actions. Of course we also need a new Abaddon miniature. Love the one we got but it needs an update. Age is showing.