General Discussion Secundus

[Sigismund229]

As part of my ongoing search to find early Insurrection stuff for the Lions to do(and other legions bit primcipally the Lions), I've wrtten a rough timeline of the Insurrection. A lot of the dates are guesses

 

031.M31- The Day of Revelation

 

031-033.M31- The Maelstrom campaigns

 

031-032.M31- The Schism of Mars

 

035-036.M31- The Battle of the Forge

 

038-047.M31- The campaigns on the Eastern Fringe

 

041.M31- The Harrying of the North: Icarion sends the Grave Stalkers, Drowned and Berserkers of Uran to conquer the central and eastern north of the Imperium for him

 

044.M31- Icarion's first offensive against Terra begins

 

045.M31- The battles of Delos and ?, Icarion's first push to Terra is halted after Alexandros issues the Edict of Emancipation

 

046-047.M31- The Predators counter attack on the Eastern Fringe, inflicting heavy losses upon the Steel Legion

 

049-051.M31- The Blood Crusade

 

051.M31- The Godslayers come back in their chaotic form

 

051.M31- The Nightguard join the war on the Imperial side

 

052.M31- The Suzerainty Split

 

053.M31- The Burning of Zbuch

 

052-054.M31- Icarion's campaigns against the Suzerainty

 

054.M31- The Wardens of Light join the war on the Imperium's side

 

055.M31- Icarion begins his second push against Terra

 

058.M31- Sieges of Terra and Madrigal. Icarion killed, the Insurrection ends.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sigismund229

[bluntblade]

I'd have the Wardens of Light join in earlier. Pretty much as soon as Icarion is fielding undead abominations and sacrificing the populations of entire systems.

[Sigismund229]

I'd have the Wardens of Light join in earlier. Pretty much as soon as Icarion is fielding undead abominations and sacrificing the populations of entire systems.

True. However, that leaves the problem of the balance of power. How does Icarion still have the resources to field against the Suzerainty if he is needing to fight a reinforced Imperium?

[bluntblade]

It's a tricky one - I do wonder if we weighted the Suzerainty a bit heavily. But with the fruits of Abyssii's perverted science, the Berserkers and The Drowned given licence to create whatever abominations they please and the Predators defecting (seizing/exposing the swathes of territory they were previously defending) it's possible. We need to make it plausible, replete with extensive expansion of traitor Morning Stars, Halcyon Wardens and Dune Serpents forces.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Gwal can't believe it. Even when entire refugee fleets are arriving without living inhabitants the wardens still don't see the need to enter. ( except the killteam around cap kylan who will be send to the nightguard afterwards and there they witness the whole problem. Scorpion who went with kylan returns to caerbannog and rallies half ( or a third) of the legion and joins the imperium.

 

Gwal follows later. He knows what alexos did to him but that icarion has fallen so deep he can't truly believe. He thinks this is a brothers fight for the aknowledgement of their father. A fight he don't want to join. But close before end he realizes the truth and takes action (still need the right starting point -> don't know yet. What motivates a man to confront the challenges that most of us would run from? Condemning him to solitude, exposing him to defeat and death? The Answer... is Love. A force so powerful that all reason becomes blind to it. Blind to all things... even the truth. Loss of love can make a man desperate... desperate enough to do anything to bury the truth, to hide from its pain.)

[Sigismund229]

And a massive recruitment into those legions still loyal to Icarion, half-breeds, the motherless(vat-grown lehionaries a la EW). Potentially also frankenstieny stuff with patched up(ish) legionaries bing resurrected and held tigether by the warp

 

That should give Icarion the numbers to plausibly fight both at the same time as well as hammering home how desperate he is and how far his legions have fallen from the Emperor's ideal

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sigismund229

[bluntblade]

There's a point though, where Gwal will just look hopelessly naïve. Once abominations are roaming across the stars, there's no room for vacillating. Either he acts, or he damns billions while he waits. Decades of war and murdered brothers is long enough, I'd say, before the audience finds Gwal's credibility being severely stretched.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Perhaps Icarion embarks upon a campaign of lies and misinformation to delay Gwal, make him unsure who he can trust, who's fighting for who and where, that could hold him up even after he decides to get involved as he doesn't want to attack the wrong side and end up being dubbed traitor?

 

Or perhaps predicting/learning from spies Gwal's made up his mind Icarion engineers a Ruinstorm-like event to slow his joining the rest of the loyalists?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well the thing is: abominations roam the stars but roam they the caerbannog corridor? At first gwal is unable due to the torment he went through thx to travier. When kylan is sentenced to aid the nightguard, it is the first time gwal shoes up again.

 

I think the caerbannog corridor is relatively safe and news don't arrive there. Completly isolated like north korea but in a good way^^

[bluntblade]

It's... really stretching plausibility though. Astropaths across the Galaxy will be having nightmares about what's happening behind the veil.

 

My main worries are that Gwal will cease to be sympathetic if he just sits around when even the Nightguard are pitching in. A Ruinstorm I could maybe buy into, but mostly it'd be a shame for the Wardens to just keep spending time on the sidelines.

[Sigismund229]

How about:

 

As the Nightguard pitch in, Gwal and the WoL also enter the war fully rather than sitting back im Caerbannog. But Gwal still refuses to take part in the war of the legions. Instead, tbe WoL only fight on wlrlds to protect the people of the Imperium, against both sides. Then, they fight against one of the trzitor legions, Harbingers would seem most fitting, and it hits home how far they've fallen and the WoL throw themselves completely behind the Imperium

[bluntblade]

There wouldn't be any Loyalist advance to resist, and I'm struggling to picture a way the Wardens could really try and protect "the people" from both sides at once.

[Sigismund229]

Well we need to get the WoL into the war somehow but if we're to follow Mikhal's original idea they can't join the war ubtil the last minute

[Chief Captain Redd]

A ruinstorm seems more plausible to keep Gwal ignorant to the sheer level of madness that starts to pour across the stars. What if Gwal were to split his forces after he learns of these galactic horrors? Feeling both responsible for the safety of his people; and the actions of his brothers.

 

Also, going a little ahead; Will The Harrying of the North have any allies for the forces of Three Fires?

Just curious, if not I could use it to put focus on the Daughters, and various militia and abhuman regiments, and include units like Vostroyans and ValHallans.

[MikhalLeNoir]

When exactly is icarion full on abominations?

 

I have no prob having gwal lose sympathy. Because they sit around and do nothing is a thing why gwal is grief stricken over alex death and their fathers crippling.

 

1/3 to 1/2 of the legion join forces when the night guard choose sides. They hasten to caerbannog and still gwal refuses to see the truth. His whole world view is not shattered once but many times. First when alexos Sacrifice their bond, then when half of his sons leave to fight and leave their way behind and finally when he realizes that his way of peace is fruitless and thst you sometimes have to take action and that he might have been able to prevent the onslaught.

 

 

But what Sangi suggested is not a bad idea. Fake News!!! Or the ruinstorm ( but then refugee ships would not be able to enter the caerbannog corridor)

Edited February 16, 2017 by MikhalLeNoir

[bluntblade]

Well we need to get the WoL into the war somehow but if we're to follow Mikhal's original idea they can't join the war ubtil the last minute

Maybe they just need to get involved a little sooner. Otherwise we're risking their heroic status, and people might just find it hard to believe. Never mind Alex and the Emperor, billions upon billions will die because of Gwal's inaction.

Edited February 16, 2017 by bluntblade

[Raktra]

Wait, why am I being apologised to?

[bluntblade]

Wait, why am I being apologised to?

Poor memory on my part. I mixed up you asking for no one to attempt Drach'nyen rules with the Archimandrite.

[Sigismund229]

Redd: We don't know yet. The details of most of these campaigns are hazy at best. So we still need to decide it

[bluntblade]

In reply to Mikhal - Icarion has full-on abominations as of the Blood Crusade's climax and the Godslayers' fall. Plus whenever The Drowned descend, which I imagine is a similar time.

[simison]

If Gwal wants to stick his head in the sand, no one can really stop him. I do agree that his legion will break in half when word of the abominations reach the WoL. He may choose to remain stubborn, but his sons don't. Furthermore, Gwal is going to pay a hefty price for his inaction. There will be a strong faction within historians and people of faith who will view his actions as moral cowardice or that he was secretly watching to see who would win the war and only sided with the Imperium at the last minute to avoid punishment. Others will assume Gwal is a fool. This villainous view of Gwal will grow stronger when he disappears and as the state of the galaxy grows worse. By 40k, half the Imperium will accept Gwal the Fool or Gwal the Villain view.

 

Basically, Gwal and the WoL will be our Dark Angels, but without Night Haunter to be blamed.

[Raktra]

It's a tricky one - I do wonder if we weighted the Suzerainty a bit heavily. But with the fruits of Abyssii's perverted science, the Berserkers and The Drowned given licence to create whatever abominations they please and the Predators defecting (seizing/exposing the swathes of territory they were previously defending) it's possible. We need to make it plausible, replete with extensive expansion of traitor Morning Stars, Halcyon Wardens and Dune Serpents forces.

Gotta bear in mind as well the average 'serker will probably end up about halfway to Gal Vorbak level by the time the Blood Crusade closes, so (without meaning to dick-swing about my Legion) that's a hell of a hammer.

[Demus Ragnok]

You do realize that when Gwal finally shows up Niklaas is going to give him a high five.

 

To the face.

 

With a steel chair.

 

"Sittin home shinin your bling whilst your kindred fight and die."

 

"You are less even than those who threw there lot in with Icarion."

 

"You're a coward."

 

(Spits at Gwal's feet)

[TheBlindPrimarch]

That would definitely lend itself to one heck of a tragic story arc for Gwal. The Pacifist seeking to stand by his convictions but compelled to act by evidence he desperately wants to deny, only to be disgraced for failing to act sooner by those he loves most. It's makes for great story telling but I'm starting to see some writer's bias in the the feedback.

[Sigismund229]

Gwalchavad stood on the bridge. "I have waited too long" he whispered "I am now a traitor twice over".

 

"Orders father?" asked Guire Amalsan.

 

"Attack"