General Discussion Secundus

[bluntblade]

Would anyone care to mathhammer Pionus vs. Kozja a few times?

[bluntblade]

Also, have we got a full timeline for me to work into the first post? Maybe we could also link Legions with the Books they appear in. Edited September 23, 2017 by bluntblade

[Chief Captain Redd]

I loved the story Blunt, only critique is it's Trenn not Tremm.

 

And we had a timeline like a year ago roughly, we been changing events so much lately it'd have to be reworked quite a bit; to the point I might suggest a little powwow and we could solidify the timeline this week and create & put up a definitive timeline, something concrete.

[simison]

Maybe we could also link Legions with the Books they appear in.

 

Insurrection - Unchanged. It's the one book that can't be transformed into a mini-trilogy due to having two general history chapters that do not split well into mini-books. 

 

Expansion

• Book 2A - The Maelstrom Conquest - Factions: Void Eagles, Morning Stars, & Shepherds of Eden
• Book 2B - The Eastern Theater - Factions: Dune Serpents, Steel Legion, & [Traitor DS/Predators?]
• Book 2C - Rescue of a Primarch - Factions: Predators

Emancipation

• Book 3A - The Southern Echelon - Factions: Updated Scions rules, House Toho, & Legio Gojira, Warbringers
• Book 3B - The Center Echelon - Factions: Fire Keepers
• Book 3C - The Northern Echelon - Factions: Halcyon Wardens, Eagle Warriors & House Zivich, Updated Iron Bears

[Escalation?]

• Book 4A - [The Eastern March?] - Factions: Berserkers of Uran and Legio Cruciatus
• Book 4B - [battle of Gidion Rift?] - Factions: Crimson Lions & [Leonic Auxilia? Heredes?]
• Book 4C - [siege of Cadia?] - Factions: [Titan Legio? Knight House Harkon? Heredes?]
• ??? - How should the Blood Crusade be divided?

[Implosion/Shattering/Dissolution?]

• Book 5A - Return of the Berserkers/Border Skirmishes - Factions: Daemon Raktra and Corrupted Berserkers
• Book 5B - The Strelan Purge - Factions: Warriors of Peace [Perhaps a short campaign section and a long general history section?]
• Book 5C - First Invasion of the Suzerainty - Factions: Daemon Koschei and Corrupted Godslayers

[Corruption?]

• Book 6A - Plague of Despair - Factions: Daemon Morro and Corrupted Drowned & Corrupted Insurgos
• Book 6B - Chaos Undivided - Factions: Daemon Travier and Super-Corrupted Eagle Warriors & Corrupted Insurgos
• Book 6C - Collapse of the Eastern Front - Factions: Traitor Predators

[Extermination?]

• Book 7A - Invasion of the Abyssii system - Factions: Cognis 
• Book 7B - Holding the line - Factions: Abyssii
• Book 7C - Counter-charge - Factions: [sisters of Cydonia?]

[Illumination?]

• Book 8A - Second Invasion of Solar - Factions: ???
• Book 8B - Retreat to Sol - Factions: Wardens of Light 
• Book 8C - Invasion of Madrigal - Factions: [New Suzerainty Units?]

[Decapitation/Conflagration ?]

• Book 9A - Invasion of Sol - Factions: Nightguard
• Book 9B - Destruction of Madrigal - Factions: Empowered Icarion and Corrupted Harbingers
• Book 9C - Final Battle in Webway - Factions: THE EMPEROR!

 

Is this what you were asking for? I'll try to get you a refined timeline this week.

Edited September 26, 2017 by simison

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hmm. The reason i suggested to split the books was to improve the speed etc. Having always 2 factions per book. Which gives us inlcuding book 1 54 faction points. But now I see sometimes 3, sometimes 1 ( okay here I guess the other faction is missing). But habing more than two per mini book makes the minibook big again. Even if there are updated rules, we have to consider the fluff for the factions as well.

 

Book 3c has 4 fsctions plus i guess here is the meeting of alex and alex so the eagle warriors should be introduced as well. Because atm we habe them only in Daemon form. So 5 factions for ONE minibook.

 

I suggest to stay focused in the 2 legions per minibook and give every Legion including their insurgos maybe 3 focus points. If there is nothing to add, we may add other armies.

 

Just my to cent as I fear we might overwhelm us.

[bluntblade]

I would suggest shifting back the fully corrupted Berserkers. Subbing them for Traitor Predators would do the trick, I reckon. The Legio Cruciatus will feature in Escalation, I'm not sure we really need to detail Tempestus as they're canon anyway.

 

Err, what's going on in the Maelstrom Conquest? I thought VE were in on the Eastern Fringe.

 

Perhaps 2-3 will need splitting further, if we're goig to do xenos auxilaries properly.

[TheBlindPrimarch]

Honestly, I'm just happy to see the Heredes on there. 

[Talonair]

Whilst we're on the topic of what goes where, how are we fitting in all the different units? Dumping all the units for a faction/legion into one book doesn't necessarily make sense for the traitors

[bluntblade]

I'm leaning towards distributing them across a Legion's appearances

[simison]

Mikhal, not all factions take equal work. All Knight Houses and Titan Legios are nothing more than fluff. So, instead of four factions in Book 3C, it's more like 2.5 factions. Even then, Blunt does make a compelling argument about why Tempestus shouldn't be given a slot since it's thoroughly detailed in canon.  Furthermore, the Insurgos, although they include fluff and crunch, take half the work of a proper Legion.

 

Wait, what? *checks Eagle Warriors* Oh. *checks first outline* Okay, looks like they were supposed to show up in Emancipation in counter to the Halcyon Wardens. Added them back in and removed Tempestus. House Zivich will be on me. 

 

Blunt, sounds easy enough and we definitely have the room Legio Cruciatus. Also, the Void Eagles are everywhere in the Insurrection. So, it's just as easy as to feature them in the Maelstrom Conquest as the Eastern Campaign. 

 

I'm not sure if we need to split another trilogy. Given all the room we have in the later trilogies, I think it'd be smarter to introduce the xenos auxiliaries one at a time. We're only talking about four of them after all (Kroot, Kinebrach, Jokaero, & Munetari Eldar). Honestly, the Jokaero will probably have to be bundled in with one of the other three as it is.

 

Also, I don't think pushing the Corrupted Berserkers back or replacing them with Traitor Predators works. There are years in-between those two events, and its Daemon Primarch Raktra that convinces the Suzerainty Primarchs to jump ship.

 

Blind, yes, I think the Heredes are showing up in Book 4B, if Sig thinks it can work. 

 

Talonair, if you're referring to BotL units that aren't faction-specific but empire-specific (like Icarion's theoretical enforcer unit), then what Blunt said. We have a lot more room to maneuver now. 

[simison]

Insurrection Timeline as requested:

 

031.M31 - Day of Revelation, Insurrection begins as does the Martian Civil War, the Seg. Solar pacification campaign, and the Maelstrom Conquest. Daer'dd dies this year. Icarion conquers Badab and gives it to the Morning Stars. K'awil is crippled. The mass exodus from Jiin to Strela begins. 

 

032.M31 - End of the Martian Civil War. The Jiin exodus ends. 

 

033.M31 - Halfway through the year, Seg. Solar Pacification Campaign is complete. Alexandros convenes the Loyalists Primarchs and warns them about Chaos. Hectarion and the Crimson Lions are sent West to begin the Pacificus Pacification Campaign, while the Scions Hospitalier are split between containing the Traitors and securing Seg. Tempestus. Wardens of Light also fight to end the fighting in their portion of Pacificus.

 

034-035.M31 - Icarion's Dark Imperium continues expanding as the Loyalists reclaim other galactic zones.

 

036.M31 - Crimson Lions successfully secure Seg. Pacificus. They begin marching North to assault the Jiin system and reclaiming Obscurus from the Traitors. 

 

037.M31 - Crimson Lions lay siege to the Jiin system (which is now heavily defended by 20,000 Warriors according to Drak). Niklaas and the FK complete fortifying the Sol System and begin fortifying Seg. Solar and reinforcing the front lines. 

 

038.M31 - The Crimson Lions sack Jiin. Begin marching towards Mexicatii Prime. Azus is captured by the Traitors. (Selene becomes the first Saint? Alexandros writes the Divinatus?)

 

039.M31 - Crimson Lions lay siege to Mexicatii system, Eagle Warriors unleash Chaos trap. Andezo rescues Azus. Icarion mobilizes to attack Seg. Solar. 

 

040.M31 - First Solar War begins, while Nomus and the General fight Azus and Andezo in the East. 

 

041.M31 - The Berserkers of Uran breach the first defense zone in the Center Front, forcing the Loyalists to retreat to the second line. Alexandros issues the Edict of Emancipation.

 

042.M31 - Xenos Auxilia begin to make an impact as they are arrive on the front lines.

 

043.M31 - First Solar War ends as Crimson Lions arrive to reinforce the Loyalists. 

 

044-045.M31 - The Warmaster and Stormlord try to out-maneuver each other, but a stalemate ensues. A few rebellions break out within Icarion's empire, and there is dissent among the Traitor Primarchs. Icarion becomes desperate enough to allow Travier's plan to become adopted. 

 

046.M31 - Blood Crusade begins. 

 

047.M31 - Blood Crusade ends. Berserkers and Eagle Warriors enter the Eye of Terror. Raktra becomes the first Daemon Primarch. 

 

048-49.M31 - Both corrupted Legions reappear out of the Maelstrom. Morro and Travier go East to begin the Drowned's ascension. Icarion moves to contain and pin the Western Loyalists. (Destruction of Grave Stalkers' homeworld by Crimson Lions?)

 

050.M31 - Warp storms strike Zbruch with the Godslayers there. K'awil is killed. The Suzerainty is established. Daemon Raktra leads the initial retribution campaign against the Suzerainty. Nurgle Godslayers reappear and move toward the Suzerainty. The Fire Keepers burn Zbruch. Andezo defects to the Traitors. Eastern Front collapses. Negotiations begin between Alexandros and Kozja.

 

051.M31 - The Loyalists and the Suzerains launch a joint invasion against the Yomi system to kill Icarion before the Eastern Traitors can arrive. Despite taking some territory, the campaign fails. 

 

052.M31 - Second Solar War begins. Pionus is nearly killed by Daemon Morro. Wardens of Light save the Loyalists from an early defeat. The Loyalists make a fighting withdrawal to the FK-fortified Sol System. The Suzerainty launches their own invasion into Icarion's empire. 

 

053.M31 - Sol and Madrigal systems are placed under siege. Alexandros declares his authorship of the Divinatus and claims to be a divine being. Writes a second testament while commanding the Loyalist defenses. Year ends with the Suzerainty winning the Madrigal siege.

 

054.M31 - Emperor is crippled, Alexandros is dead, Icarion is dead, and the Traitors are defeated. Official end of the Insurrection as recorded by historians. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by simison

[Raktra]

The Old Blood incident happens before they join up with Icarion, it's the last push to totally break from the Imperium.

[simison]

The Old Blood incident happens before they join up with Icarion, it's the last push to totally break from the Imperium.

 

Removed.

[MikhalLeNoir]

If you move the siege of madrigal to the last book, we can feature every legion in book 10 revisiting their rules plus rules for the emperor.

Instead of a trilogy this book would be one big book. With also functiona as aort of appendix with all legion rules in one place and would wrap all things up with the first book.

Edited September 26, 2017 by MikhalLeNoir

[bluntblade]

Raktra, I thought you'd moved the Old Blood thing? So Raktra is led to it after the end of the First Solar War, and that also provides a nudge towards the Blood Crusade.

[Raktra]

I extended the amount of time they're trapped on Uran by the Warp Storms, but didn't actually move the time of the event itself. 

[bluntblade]

Ah

I had no idea about the Maelstrom offensive previously. It feels a but too reckless for Alex, to me, particularly if that's where the Sheoherds are meant to come in.

[simison]

If you move the siege of madrigal to the last book, we can feature every legion in book 10 revisiting their rules plus rules for the emperor.

Instead of a trilogy this book would be one big book. With also functiona as aort of appendix with all legion rules in one place and would wrap all things up with the first book.

 

I honestly don't see the purpose of this. Grifft has already started work on a red book of the BotL Legion rules. I don't see what we gain in repeating old information.

 

 

Ah

I had no idea about the Maelstrom offensive previously. It feels a but too reckless for Alex, to me, particularly if that's where the Sheoherds are meant to come in.

 

I'm very confused. What's reckless about trying to slow down the Traitor's advance?

[bluntblade]

Well, I'd thought they'd be garrisoning everything they could and unwilling to risk assets in an outright offensive.

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

If you move the siege of madrigal to the last book, we can feature every legion in book 10 revisiting their rules plus rules for the emperor.

Instead of a trilogy this book would be one big book. With also functiona as aort of appendix with all legion rules in one place and would wrap all things up with the first book.

 

 

I honestly don't see the purpose of this. Grifft has already started work on a red book of the BotL Legion rules. I don't see what we gain in repeating old information.

 

 

Ah

I had no idea about the Maelstrom offensive previously. It feels a but too reckless for Alex, to me, particularly if that's where the Sheoherds are meant to come in.

 

 

I'm very confused. What's reckless about trying to slow down the Traitor's advance?

As we don't habe any printing issues it makes the last book that special snowflake.

[RikuEru]

*chimes in, like the weird beardy uncle, that lives in his hunting lodge up north*

 

On a completely unrelated note, not even that important to the Insurrection itself, has anyone written something about the 'last' Expeditionary Fleet in the BotL-Universe? Or rather, the one that went furthest up to the North-Eastern-Fringe - where no further human civilizations, nor any noteworthy enemies, had been found - before turning back and venturing elsewhere?

 

If not, am I allowed to make one up?

It's... for a thing... I am conceptualizing, so I can work on it over the winter. For all of you... *coughs unsuspiciously*

 

 

 

...by the way, Kelborn, my friend, give me a hug!

*pulls out his Fenrisian Skinning Knife and whispers* If you tell them anything, I will make both main-universe Leman Russ AND the ghost of BotL-universe Leman Russ hunt you down... ;D

[Kelborn]

One of my tribes travels into the unknown realms as do some Void Eagles, if I'm not wrong.

 

But yeah, you can do one as well.

 

Besides, haven't you shared your project months ago? ;)

 

Otherwise, I'll be silent. Rout > all others :D

[simison]

Well, I'd thought they'd be garrisoning everything they could and unwilling to risk assets in an outright offensive.

 

Loyalists, yes, but the Maelstrom Conquest explicitly refers to the Traitor campaign to secure the core of Icarion's new empire. My thoughts on the Shepherds is that they happen to be passing through the Badab system with a Void Eagles fleet when both are caught off-guard by the Morning Stars and the Harbingers invading the system. 

 

To Mikhal, I still don't see the point of re-printing all of the Legion rules in a campaign book. It breaks the flow of the campaign books. How does a red book not satisfy your desire?

 

To RikuEru, as others have mentioned, several Expeditionary Fleets move outside of communication range with the Imperium, including a Void Eagles Great Fleet "The Sons of Nothingness", some Predators, and a couple of Godslayers Lost Brotherhoods. 

 

However, I'm not sure if we've established where their destinations were or which one was the "Last". So, as far as I'm concerned, that opportunity is still open if you want it, Riku. 

[bluntblade]

Right. I totally misread that. Sorry Sim

[MikhalLeNoir]

Why does it break the flow? As final book of the insurrection and the biggest meat grinder ir should stand out anyway. As every legion we have is involved in those final moments ( including the siege of madrigal as I see both intertwined) it would be not a break of the flow just a mere nod to the work we did over all those years, more than any red book could.

 

 

Riku, I am tempted to see your work. Did you already know which legion venture i to the unknown space?