Hooj Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Sad is that DA and company have banner which add +1 attack as old one did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4763898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Also http://imgur.com/a/KdV3Q Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4763899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I will say that the BT characters are actually pretty awesome. The Emperor's Champion and Helbrecht are very much improved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4763963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_von_Speer Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 ", each Black Templars battle-fleet contains thousands of warriors." BT above Legion Chapter-strength confirmed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Banner is still handy considering we can expect more casualties due to Battleshock and the somewhat lackluster ATSKNF... Also... what in the Emperor's name is an "Imperial Space Marine" which can be seen in the Elite points section... I thought all "loyal" Marines were "Imperial" Space Marines... They're single models... worth 60 pts... edit: It's the Rogue Trader original Space Marine duh... :p Goes to show when you don't get the limited edition stuff :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Just rereading over the rules again, and my God, the sheer output of attacks and damage when running a Black Tide with all 3 HQs is staggering. Wish I could mathhammer. Extra attack on 6s. D3 damage from the Black Sword. D3 damage from the Sword of the High Marshalls, potential 7 swings with the extra attack on 6s. Rerolls. Str 8 EC. It's absolutely disgusting. It's almost like our Vows and Chapter Tactics rolled into one. I'm ranting. It's a good day. This is the morale booster I needed for the hobby because I've been in such a slump. I need a new Helbrecht and Crusader squad ASAP. One on either side of the HQ blob with a bolter squad in backfield. I'll figure out what to do with LRCs later. Maybe just run them empty to generate a wall of threat with the Crusaders behind them. Or if rules permit, run the HQs in the LRC with Crusader bubble wrapping. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Ok looking at the honor guard and relic blade paired with Helbrecht. 21 points for the honor guard and 21 for the relic blade but I'm trying to work out if this is worth it? 2A S7 -3ap D D3 Also looking at the company vets two attacks base at only 3 points more than a crusader along with a power swords for only 4 points and (+1S) buff. You also can mix in some plasma or combi weapons or even plasma pistols as the re-roll to hit is huge. At S5 to me both the power sword and lightning claw seem to be the top damage deals for points. I have gone through everything and nothing is over T8 via GW prime without looking into FW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneTrueZon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Does the additional hit on 6 stack? What if you happen to roll another 6? ANOTHER attack? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Keep in mind that's an additional attack per 6+, not just for getting a six. Now the real question is do characters benefit from their own buffs? I'd assume so since they have the keyword and are within x" of themselves at all times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Let's say 20 Crusaders roll attacks, rerolls, etc, and when it's all said and done, 30 of those successful To Hits are 6s. That's 30 extra attacks. At S5. All friend Keyword: Black Templar units get the character buffs. Since the characters all contain the keyword, they all benefit. Terrifying. Not to mention that rolling the whole kit n kaboodle provides 10 ablative wounds through Neos, who until I'm told otherwise could possibly be healed by an Apothecary, and refuse to fall back as long as your Cenos are alive. Now imagine two of these blobs getting buffed, running X amount of LRCs, I haven't done out the points to see what I can fit at 2000. It's a wall of threat. What do you shoot? The Crusaders are scary. The Raiders are nigh invincible. Maybe there is an Ironclad stomping along in there too, who also carries the BT word and is similarly buffed. Primaris who? Devastators what? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 No they do not stack it is once and done for the 6+ and can't self propagate. As it is written dealing with Key words Black Templar and the model generating it has that key word so he would get that ability also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 No they do not stack it is once and done for the 6+ and can't self propagate. As it is written dealing with Key words Black Templar and the model generating it has that key word so he would get that ability also. Yes and no on the attack. Bonus attacks will not generate more, but the initial set of attacks can each generate bonus attacks. Any hit roll of 6+ generates an additional attack but that's it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 So having gone through the leaks for marines. Grimaldus is going to quite fun no doubt, makes us one of the few armies that are able to generate additional attacks, and servitors are dirt cheap they also have a great bonus that forces them to be priority targets. Helbrecht will be mean hanging with assault units as he should. Our champion is basically rerolling everything when doing his job. Servitors will hide behind Crusader Squads they buff and cannot even be sniped because they aren't characters. There's little to no way to take them out if the are in midst of Crusaders! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Holy Terra, I think I already hear people crying about the OP Templars! :v Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydonianDragoon404 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 You guys having good things to say about the Emp's Champion and the rest of our characters is giving me a lot of hope. At first when I saw the stats on the Black Sword I thought it was taking a rather large nerf without the ability to insta-gib. I'll need to have another look. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Holy Terra, I think I already hear people crying about the OP Templars! :v If by any chance this turns out to be true, despite the stuff Xenos have and witchcraft that we will be missing, this would explain the origins of the Great Rift. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 So when are we gonna be seeing chapter tactics? Anyone know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rock Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Based on what I'm seeing from xenos lovers around the web, it sounds like Tau and Eldar were (rightly) hit with the nerf stick, whether by points or rules. Oddly enough, I'm excited by the boon given to orks, as it sounds like they're going to be able to put a TON of orks on the board, thus allowing us to live out our Helsreach fantasies. With the synergies afforded to us by our Triumverate, there is going to be a TON of green skins for us to chainsword. I don't want to have my heart dashed by lofty expectation, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't swooning a little over these rules. I'd also like to say, as I hoped, we'll still be able to live out our Templar fantasies regardless of chapter tactics. Obviously, I'm looking forward to them, but the way these rules have shaped up, we'll be able to run Templar like the good ol' days and them some. Just as a little aside, we got twice as many pages of rules/fluff than several founding chapters. Not worth reading in to it too much, but encouraging none the less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 So when are we gonna be seeing chapter tactics? Anyone know? We might not as they are not in the indexes and GW has not confirmed that they will come later at this point. You guys having good things to say about the Emp's Champion and the rest of our characters is giving me a lot of hope. At first when I saw the stats on the Black Sword I thought it was taking a rather large nerf without the ability to insta-gib. I'll need to have another look. Between the amount of attacks and synergies of the three characters he will be eating characters. You are not chancing the instal-gib now you are leaving them a pile of dead heretic on the ground. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 So when are we gonna be seeing chapter tactics? Anyone know? Once codices are released. Indices are a stopgap to get everyone on the same 8ed page at once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Our new character buffs are essentially chapter tactics and they're totally on point. If and when we see a dex, I imagine we could see a Holy Hand Grenade, movement buffs, and maybe fluffy drawbacks like you must charge any psyker within 12 inches, but gain a VP if you kill him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Our new character buffs are essentially chapter tactics and they're totally on point. If and when we see a dex, I imagine we could see a Holy Hand Grenade, movement buffs, and maybe fluffy drawbacks like you must charge any psyker within 12 inches, but gain a VP if you kill him. CT has to be the one we had before - the antipsyker buff. That's the only thing we're missing. I will help myself with an inquisitorial sub-detachment for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segismundo Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Is the cataphracti armour worse than terminator with stormshield now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 We are a much funner lot when we're happy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twig Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Sword Brethren will likely be Ld9. But depending on wording that might limit us to 9 Neophytes max. LRCs are still looking to be our best horde unit option. Sure they're still super expensive, but they're basically tougher than before and rock a 2+ armour save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/51/#findComment-4764442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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