Emperor's Spears covered by A D B

[Cleanse And Purify]

If I had to guess, the mods are bored and need something to do since we aren't arguing enough ;) I jest. I think the mod is just keep g the thread on topic: 40k book by ADB that involves spears, helmet Mohawks, and geasa. Wagner isn't really connected at all to any of that other than there being a spear in his opera.

 

If I will be allowed one parting remark: the words Geirr and geis are not etymologically linked. The word Geirr is similar to the Germanic reflex gar-, which means spear and we see crop up in certain names (Gerald, Roger, etc) even now. That IS similar (am not linguist, do not know how similar) to one of the Irish words for spear (they had at least 2 dozen words for different types of spear), far. It's possible both are descended from the same proto-indo-european word, since Irish and the Germanic languages are both indo-european languages, but you'd have to ask a linguist.

 

That's about the extent of any connection between the concept of geis, and Wotans spear in Wagner's opera.

[grailkeeper]

What I wonder is who will be giving the geas? Traditionally (as far as I can remember from primary school) was they were g8ven by women.

[grailkeeper]

A coven of women fundamental to a chapters traditions would be interesting. How are they selected? What power do they hold? Are they trusted by outsiders?

[Cleanse And Purify]

Ooooo, and that would be in keeping with ADB's method of including female characters alongside the Astartes. Though, geasa were often granted by male druids as well, and the occasional deity. So, could be the librarians do it. Or both, perhaps.

[b1soul]

Been out of the loop for a while...

 

Has ADB revealed the primary cultural influences of the Spears?

[Cleanse And Purify]

Greco-roman influences and post-roman Britain. The impression I get is that they are inspired by the concept of foederates, the barbarian auxiliaries in late Roman armies whom often became somewhat Romanized themselves while still retaining their native identity.

 

Also some medieval Irish influences, hence the discussion of the last few pages.

[b1soul]

Sounds good...

 

I also think the barbarian auxiliary concept would fit the SoH as well

[Phoebus]

Oh, no. Definitely not. There'll always be B-listers to write about, and it was very much my decision to go with a C-lister this time. I have ideas for ... [a] Minotaurs ... [novel] myself, though I doubt [it] would ever come to pass.

You know, while I appreciate the work you've graced this setting with, your list of factions that you feel you won't touch is rather vexing. First the Dark Angels and now the Minotaurs?

 

If you read this thread, it reads like the most awesomely intimidating wish list. They should be a Chapter that definitely isn't from Ultramarine stock despite most Chapters being from Ultramarine stock/ hopefully Raven Guard gene-seed / Traitor gene-seed / Space Wolf gene-seed, with clear ties to their primarch / with no idea who their primarch even is.

So what you're saying is that, regardless of what the Imperium thinks, the Spears are a Cursed Founding Chapter of mixed Ultramarine-Raven Guard-Space Wolf gene seed within whose ranks only a Dark Angels-sequel Inner Circle of sorts knows the truth of their origins.

 

Can we start this rumor now?

 

Love the point Aaron made about so many of the stories of each chapter's central conceit being regurgitated ad nauseam. Codex Astartes, Red Thirst/Black Rage, The Fallen etc. It's a big universe guys.

I don't mind the central conceit being something that shows up. I just hate it when its use is the excuse for the characters being less competent than they should be.

 

For example, adherence to an encyclopedic resource on all things pertaining to war shouldn't be code for "tactical inflexibility." That's simple to the point of being lazy. Likewise, whether the Fallen are present or not, should someone being taciturn and secretive always be the plot device that ensures the decision made was the poor one?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Phoebus

[HeritorA]

Sounds good...

 

I also think the barbarian auxiliary concept would fit the SoH as well

Partly  - look pages 12-14

Or ask A D-B again.

[Rathamanti]

If I will be allowed one parting remark: the words Geirr and geis are not etymologically linked...

Thank you for the explanation, Cleanse And Purify; that was just what I was looking for! I thought Gungnir, a spear inscribed with (sometimes bizarre) prophecy/personal rules and laws which symbolises and foretells a hero's future and demise, seemed reminiscent of what people here wrote about geasa. Or if there was no historical or cultural connection, maybe A D-B had made a connection between geirr, Gungnir, geis and/or the chapter. To bad it turns out not to be. It would be a cool connection, I think :)

 

I am furiously painting my Spears, and am looking so very much forward to this book! (No pressure..)

Edited August 21, 2017 by Rathamanti

[HeritorA]

 

If I will be allowed one parting remark: the words Geirr and geis are not etymologically linked...

Thank you for the explanation, Cleanse And Purify; that was just what I was looking for! I thought Gungnir, a spear inscribed with (sometimes bizarre) prophecy/personal rules and laws which symbolises and foretells a hero's future and demise, seemed reminiscent of what people here wrote about geasa. Or if there was no historical or cultural connection, maybe A D-B had made a connection between geirr, Gungnir, geis and/or the chapter. To bad it turns out not to be. It would be a cool connection, I think

 

I am furiously painting my Spears, and am looking so very much forward to this book! (No pressure..)

 

Well after BL I think now it's an amazing idea to use geis and one of the worst at the same time. BL was everything we hoped for and nothing we expected. So - now I don't know how I will come to that one

[grailkeeper]

ADB just posted this to his Facebook. Looks like the main character is a thrall assigned to a Primaris Marine.

 

 

I don't know what's more annoying, the fact I am breathing manually after reading this, or that I have Falco's "Rock me Amadeus" stuck in my head now.

[Silent Observant]

To be fair in the context of the post, it sounded like he re worded it and that is from the first draft

[Mellow]

Let's be honest.

 

The main character of this book will be a Human Female... as it always is with ADB

 

LOL

[A D-B]

Let's be honest.

 

The main character of this book will be a Human Female... as it always is with ADB

 

LOL

 

I was waiting for a comment like that, by the way. You jest (I... hope...) but it matches the more moronic chain of thought that points out every book that has a Space Marine interacting with a non-Marine female character, ignoring all the other non-Marine male characters. Talos had Octavia, they say. Yes, he did. And he had Septimus, who he was both closer to and more violent with. But no, it's just Octavia, apparently. Grimaldus had Zarha. Yeah, as well as Andrej. Nope, though. Just Zarha because LOL GIRLS LOL. Khayon has Nefertari. Does he? A character he barely shares any dialogue with, among several other male and female characters, but no, it's LOL GIRLS LOL. Or is it one of the several others? Y'know, the ones he barely talks to, anyway. 

 

The only pattern here is that there are females in most of my books, and they interact with the protagonist - just like the males do. I don't mean to alarm anyone, but that's being true to the setting. That's how it would be.

 

I've spent endless words on this in the past, (and if you read all of that and still argue, then I fear for your sanity), but do you honestly, really know what it is? You can't win. No matter what. Despite completely different relationships with male and female non-Marines, it's the presence of female non-Marines that gets these stupid comments. Not all the male non-Marines. The protagonists have just as varied and complex relationships with the male non-Marines, but nope, forget that. LOL GIRLS LOL. There's no way around it - the female characters can be BFFs or hate the main character, and no two of them will even be remotely alike, but you still get the comments.

 

I've had my editors and test readers comb the text about this. None of them see it. It never comes up in any real reviews. It's always just certain people on forums, with certain tones. 

 

If I make all the non-Marine characters male, that's weird and unrealistic. If I make any one of them female - not all, not even half, but any single one - and she interacts with the Space Marines in any detail - positive or negative, no matter how - it becomes this imaginary trope. Do you understand how there's zero room to move there? How unrealistic the limitations are, and how the trope is nonsense?

 

I'm now at a point where I'm second-guessing ever putting a female in ever, in any situation where they interact in any detail with the protagonist, despite the fact it's unrealistic leave them out, just because I'm so sick of these ludicrous comments. (The weird thing is that there aren't even that many of them, but like a tick, they keep burrowing in.)

 

There are women in 40K. They have a variety of relationships with various protagonists. Some are hostile. Some lie. Some are close. Some aren't. Some are just there. Some influence events.  Grow up and deal with it. You're reacting to main characters interacting with any females and ascribing weird emphasis to it, and that says a lot more about you than me. 

 

I'll put it another way. There are, for example, three non-Marine roles for meaningful characters in Book X. Their genders are meaningless. All three interact with the main character in some way, hopefully meaningfully. Now... you make any one of them female, and you get these comments. It doesn't matter that the other two are male. They'll get glossed over, and the female one will be focused on - whether she's human, cyborg, eldar, whatever; whether she's an enemy, a liar, a best pal, no matter what she does.  You roll a dice and it comes up evens for female and odds for male, you get these comments. So... what? You make all three characters male, to head off any stupid remarks, only to be presenting the setting painfully unrealistically. 40K isn't sexist. That means there'd be women at about a 50-50 level in pretty much all non-Marine jobs. Sorry. That's just the deal, here. Mechanicus adepts? Navy officers? Chapter thralls? Titan crews? 50% women. Sorry.

Edited September 7, 2017 by A D-B

[Ranwulf]

 

Let's be honest.

 

The main character of this book will be a Human Female... as it always is with ADB

 

LOL

 

INB4 Mellow's usual sarcastic nonsen-- Oh, he beat me.

 

(Incidentally, I've never had a female main character / primary protagonist, in 12 novels . So... uh... not a great point there.)

 

Besides Talos, Octavia was one of the main points of view of the Night Lords series, wasnt she? I know that PoV and Protagonism are two different things, but they felt very close in her case;

 

Ran

[A D-B]

 

 

Let's be honest.

 

The main character of this book will be a Human Female... as it always is with ADB

 

LOL

 

INB4 Mellow's usual sarcastic nonsen-- Oh, he beat me.

 

(Incidentally, I've never had a female main character / primary protagonist, in 12 novels . So... uh... not a great point there.)

 

Besides Talos, Octavia was one of the main points of view of the Night Lords series, wasnt she? I know that PoV and Protagonism are two different things, but they felt very close in her case;

 

Ran

 

 

She's not the series' main character, that's Talos. He said "main character".

[Kelborn]

Not again...

I just don't see the reasoning behind this "A D B has a girly thing".

That's just plain bonkers. Implementing female characters are an addition, nothing more nothing less. Just another character which add to the story. Why do so many have a problem with that?

 

Seems like some of might have a problem with the other gender...

 

Can we just drop that and continue to discuss the actual book we're waiting for?!

 

Can someone please elaborate what "breathing manually" means? Is this something good or bad?

[Sete]

Captain Incarius Amadeus Mozart?

Does the thrall fluff his crest?

Does he play the piano?

Edited September 7, 2017 by Sete

[HeritorA]

 

Let's be honest.

 

The main character of this book will be a Human Female... as it always is with ADB

 

LOL

 

INB4 Mellow's usual sarcastic nonsen-- Oh, he beat me.

 

(Incidentally, I've never had a female main character / primary protagonist, in 12 novels . So... uh... not a great point there.)

 

I was waiting for a comment like that, by the way. From the same moronic chain of thought that points out every book that has a Space Marine interacting with a non-Marine female character, ignoring all the other non-Marine male characters. Talos had Octavia, they say. Yes, he did. And he had Septimus, who he was both closer to and more violent with. But no, it's just Octavia, apparently. Grimaldus had Zarha. Yeah, as well as Andrej. Nope, though. Just Zarha because LOL GIRLS LOL. Khayon has Nefertari. Does he? A character he barely shares any dialogue with, among several other male and female characters, but no, it's LOL GIRLS LOL. Or is it one of the several others? Y'know, the ones he barely talks to, anyway. 

 

The only pattern here is that there are females in most of my books, and they interact with the protagonist - just like the males do. I don't mean to alarm anyone, but that's being true to the setting. That's how it would be.

 

I've spent endless words on this in the past, (and if you read all of that and still argue, then I fear for your sanity), but do you honestly, really know what it is? You can't win. No matter what. Despite completely different relationships with male and female non-Marines, it's the presence of female non-Marines that gets these stupid comments. Not all the male non-Marines. The protagonists have just as varied and complex relationships with the male non-Marines, but nope, forget that. LOL GIRLS LOL. There's no way around it - the female characters can be BFFs or hate the main character, and no two of them will even be remotely alike, but you still get the comments.

 

I've had my editors and test readers comb the text about this. None of them see it. It never comes up in any real reviews. It's always just certain people on forums, with certain tones. 

 

If I make all the non-Marine characters male, that's weird and unrealistic. If I make any one of them female - not all, not even half, but any single one - and she interacts with the Space Marines in any detail - positive or negative, no matter how - it becomes this imaginary trope. Do you understand how there's zero room to move there? How unrealistic the limitations are, and how the trope is nonsense?

 

I'm now at a point where I'm second-guessing ever putting a female in ever, in any situation where they interact in any detail with the protagonist, despite the fact it's unrealistic leave them out, just because I'm so sick of these ludicrous comments. (The weird thing is that there aren't even that many of them, but like a tick, they keep burrowing in.)

 

There are women in 40K. They have a variety of relationships with various protagonists. Some are hostile. Some lie. Some are close. Some aren't. Some are just there. Some influence events.  Grow up and deal with it. You're reacting to main characters interacting with any females and ascribing weird emphasis to it, and that says a lot more about you than me. 

 

I'll put it another way. There are, for example, three non-Marine roles for meaningful characters in Book X. Their genders are meaningless. All three interact with the main character in some way, hopefully meaningfully. Now... you make any one of them female, and you get these comments. It doesn't matter that the other two are male. They'll get glossed over, and the female one will be focused on - whether she's human, cyborg, eldar, whatever; whether she's an enemy, a liar, a best pal, no matter what she does.  You roll a dice and it comes up evens for female and odds for male, you get these comments. So... what? You make all three characters male, to head off any stupid remarks, only to be presenting the setting painfully unrealistically. 40K isn't sexist. That means there'd be women at about a 50-50 level in pretty much all non-Marine jobs. Sorry. That's just the deal, here. Mechanicus adepts? Navy officers? Chapter thralls? Titan crews? 50% women. Sorry.

 

 

 

Well, you know that we thought that the main character for 'The First Heretic' and 'Betrayer' were the 'Blessed Lady' and Lotara Sarrin.  And the main character for the 'Void Stalker' is Octavia in company with Jain Zar?

[Mellow]

 

Let's be honest.

 

The main character of this book will be a Human Female... as it always is with ADB

 

LOL

 

INB4 Mellow's usual sarcastic nonsen-- Oh, he beat me.

 

<snip>

 

 

My post was made in jest, I have no problem with your choice of characters but merely commented on the fact that there have been (as you linked) many people discussing female characters in various Novels for quite some time and I noticed that trend.

 

I do tend to always buy and enjoy your novels so I have no "problems" with any of them and I will no doubt to continue to purchase said novels in the future ... but jeez. Grumpy much!?

 

Any-who, I don't post usual sarcastic nonsense. There are just individuals on here that I can count on to produce posts that grate my cheese and I like to reply.

 

Can't wait for Spears to come out.  :)

[Tyrannicide]

"This Forum has had 0 posts without reference to females in an ADB novel. The previous best record was 371 posts."

[A D-B]

I always get you mixed up with... someone nameless. Sorry, Mellow. No, you're not particularly sarcastic - I'll edit that out. If it's any consolation I also do it with BCK (who is lovely, but I always go "I hate that guy, he's-- No, wait, he's the nice one").

 

This subject makes me incandescently grumpy, as you can tell. I was too busy angry-typing with big pounding fists to check names and/or reality.

[Loesh]

Female character interaction?

What's next? are space marines going to have EMOTIONS? Bah!

[HeritorA]

Female character interaction?

 

What's next? are space marines going to have EMOTIONS? Bah!

And they did not - HERESY? Just look at that drama queens Buirlliman and Russ