2500 Dark Angels - Ravenwing Protocol

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm new to 30K, but coming from a background of 40K, so I would appreciate any thoughts on the below list telling me how far off the mark I am!!

 

HQ

Praetor with jetbike (molecular acid shells on HB) and Paragon Blade

 

Troops

 

3x Jetbikes with acid HBs, and a sergeant with melta bombs

 

3x Jetbikes with acid HBs, and a sergeant with melta bombs

 

3x Jetbikes with acid HBs, and a sergeant with melta bombs

 

3x Outriders with twin-linked plasma guns, sergeant

 

3x Outriders with twin-linked plasma guns, sergeant

 

3x Outriders with twin-linked plasma guns, sergeant

 

Fast Attack

 

Storm Eagle with Armoured ceramite, extra armour and acid HBs

 

Storm Eagle with Armoured ceramite, extra armour and acid HBs

 

2x Land speeders with grav cannons and MMs

 

Elites

 

5 Cataphractii Terminators with 3x PF, 1x CF, 1x HF (have to go in a storm eagle)

 

5 Cataphractii Terminators with 3x PF, 1x CF, 1x HF (have to go in a storm eagle)

 

Heavy Support

 

Fire Raptor with autocannons

 

 

By my calculations that comes to 2490, but I could very well be missing something. It's a bit of a spammy list, but the RW protocol is quite restrictive. 

 

Any comments are much appreciated!

 

Cheers,

TWA

 

[Cloud Runner]

Looks effective, though the small unit sizes could mean easily killed, giving away the VP's for not outnumbering the enemy. It has some good elements in there and fits the feel of Ravenwing.

 

A few suggestions for you:

 

 

You can free up some points with the storm eagles, because they can't use the acid HB rounds - models with the LA:Dark Angels rule and dreadnoughts only - perfectly fine on jetbikes (and attack bike squadrons!) but not vehicles sadly.

 

 

Personally I would think about dropping one of the terminator squads and use the storm eagle for a big blob of tacticals - something that can be dropped into position to hold an objective of sorts - maybe with an attached chaplain to make them fearless.

 

I would increase squad sizes of your troops choices too if possible, so that they have a bit more survivability - once they get caught in combat (and they will) they'll likely be cut down by power weapons/weight of numbers and you haven't got much to hit back with - certainly very little that's ignoring power armour saves.

 

 

 

The protocols can be very restrictive (I'm toying with an Ironwing list at the moment) and the key is to play to the protocols strengths - Ravenwing is all about the fast, mobile strike. What's the meta like in your area? Are flyers a must bring, or are they seldom seen? With 3 flyers in the list, that's 5 units (including the cataphracts) in reserve that could come late to the game - personally I prefer boots (or tyres) on the ground, and supporting each other from the outset.

 

 

 

I would suggest combing the bikes and jet bikes into 2 units of each

 

With the outriders, if you can get them to 6 models, you can then put 2 power swords (blade mastery) and a calibanite warblade in there for 30 points - suddenly they become a unit that can hunt and destroy. And if you can get an apothecary in there with a combi-grenade launcher, you can drop a stasis round in before the first strike - as well as the FNP!

 

 

Also consider using a delegatus as your HQ - still has the options for Rites and the other toys (except the paragon, but maybe use the terranic greatsword for guaranteed ID) but cheaper points - allowing you to put them somewhere else.

 

May also be worth considering putting him on a bike, so that he can join an apothecary unit and benefit from that too.

 

 

 

Hope that's of use to you, and it's got me thinking of RW Protocol now - too many ideas!!!!!!

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Thanks Cloud Runner, those are some really great suggestions. I'll respond to each in turn:-

 

- Storm Eagle HBs - that's a great pickup. I was so focused on the 'HB or TL-HB' rule (i.e., can't put it on a Fire raptor's quad HB) that I forgot about the Legion requirement.

 

- Tactical squad - As far as I can tell, the RW protocol makes jet bikes and outriders the only troops - so no tac blobs unfortunately. What I can play with, however, is combine the termies into one squad, drop one eagle, and use those points to bulk up the bike and jet bike squads.

 

Re apothecaries - please correct me if I'm wrong here, but to me it looks like I can't give an apothecary a bike? I could take a centurion on a bike with a narthecium. I think it's worth it to make a bigger outrider squad, with some swords as you suggest, and a 'centurion apothecary'. It would function a bit like a black knight command squad in 40k.

 

Thanks heaps for your suggestions!

[Cloud Runner]

Updated LA:CAL allows apothecaries to take bikes or jump packs, allowing them to join outriders and assault squads respectively.

 

Bike apothecaries are great fun!!!! And only 20 points for a bike!!!

 

Tactical blobs - I think you're right, but not got the book to hand.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Hmmmm I must have the old book - I guess that's what I get for buying it second hand for cheap.

 

Apothecaries in bike squads do sound like a great idea though

[Erren]

I've found my TL plasma outriders very disappointing, mostly because they're SO expensive. If I ever build up the models for Ravenwing, I'd probably keep the TL bolter and kit them out for CC as a command squad (so they have a 2+). And attach a biker Delegatus/Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary for various bonuses.

 

Terminators would work better in a dreadclaw I think. It's cheaper, at least one comes in on turn 1, doesn't care if it has to jink, and will probably be able to get them where you want more accurately, too.

 

I admit I haven't tried it myself, but sergeant upgrade for Jetbikes doesn't seem worth the points, especially if you're mainly buying it for the MB access. But if they work for you, I'm happy to hear about it!

[Purge the Daemon]

I've found my TL plasma outriders very disappointing, mostly because they're SO expensive. If I ever build up the models for Ravenwing, I'd probably keep the TL bolter and kit them out for CC as a command squad (so they have a 2+). And attach a biker Delegatus/Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary for various bonuses.

 

Terminators would work better in a dreadclaw I think. It's cheaper, at least one comes in on turn 1, doesn't care if it has to jink, and will probably be able to get them where you want more accurately, too.

 

I admit I haven't tried it myself, but sergeant upgrade for Jetbikes doesn't seem worth the points, especially if you're mainly buying it for the MB access. But if they work for you, I'm happy to hear about it!

The +leadership is kind of nice and rad grenades aren't to bad. But it may just be better to run them around without anything except acid shells saves a lot of points.

 

Though I'd say defintely go sergeant on Outriders they do a lot better in assault due to power weapon access and with a lower save need the higher leadership more often if in bigger blocks. In MSU it's probably not as good 1A and 1LD isn't super huge in 3 fist punching models.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

 

I've found my TL plasma outriders very disappointing, mostly because they're SO expensive. If I ever build up the models for Ravenwing, I'd probably keep the TL bolter and kit them out for CC as a command squad (so they have a 2+). And attach a biker Delegatus/Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary for various bonuses.

 

Terminators would work better in a dreadclaw I think. It's cheaper, at least one comes in on turn 1, doesn't care if it has to jink, and will probably be able to get them where you want more accurately, too.

 

I admit I haven't tried it myself, but sergeant upgrade for Jetbikes doesn't seem worth the points, especially if you're mainly buying it for the MB access. But if they work for you, I'm happy to hear about it!

The +leadership is kind of nice and rad grenades aren't to bad. But it may just be better to run them around without anything except acid shells saves a lot of points.

 

Though I'd say defintely go sergeant on Outriders they do a lot better in assault due to power weapon access and with a lower save need the higher leadership more often if in bigger blocks. In MSU it's probably not as good 1A and 1LD isn't super huge in 3 fist punching models.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. I was mainly thinking of the leadership bonus with the sergeant upgrade - I have the worst record with leadership tests, so I need all the help I can get!

 

The dread claw is a great suggestion too, I think. I had been toying with the idea, but ultimately went with the storm eagle because I like the model better. But a dread claw is almost half the price (money wise) and better than half price in points, so that's very persuasive. I hadn't thought about the dread claw being able to jink either, so that's a really good point... Plenty of decisions to make!!

[Donnodouglas]

This is my 3k list

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Praetor [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Master of the Legion, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Molecular Acid Shells, Paragon Blade, Rad Grenades]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [Additional Wargear, Molecular Acid Shells, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters, 2x Volkite Culverin]

Sky Slayer Sergeant Upgrade [bolt Pistol, Rad Grenades]

Power Weapon [Power Sword]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [Additional Wargear, Molecular Acid Shells, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters, 2x Volkite Culverin]

Sky Slayer Sergeant Upgrade [bolt Pistol, Rad Grenades]

Power Weapon [Power Sword]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [Additional Wargear, Molecular Acid Shells, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters, 2x Volkite Culverin]

Sky Slayer Sergeant Upgrade [bolt Pistol, Rad Grenades]

Power Weapon [Power Sword]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [Additional Wargear, Molecular Acid Shells, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters, 2x Volkite Culverin]

Sky Slayer Sergeant Upgrade [bolt Pistol, Rad Grenades]

Power Weapon [Power Sword]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher]

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher]

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher]

 

Xiphon Interceptor [Twin-Linked Lascannon, Xiphon Rotary Missile Launcher]

May take any of the following upgrades: [Chaff Launcher, Ground-tracking Auguries]

 

Xiphon Interceptor [Twin-Linked Lascannon, Xiphon Rotary Missile Launcher]

May take any of the following upgrades: [Chaff Launcher, Ground-tracking Auguries]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Slayer Support Squadron [Melta Bombs, Multi-melta, 5x Space Marine Sky Slayers]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Slayer Support Squadron [5x Space Marine Sky Slayers, Volkite Culverin]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Slayer Support Squadron [5x Space Marine Sky Slayers, Volkite Culverin]

Standard Wargear [bolt Pistols, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legiones Astartes [ I: Dark Angels, Loyalist]

 

Rite of War [Ravenwing Protocol]

[shandwen]

If you are planning on running a Preator, I would syrongly advise downgrading his ride to a regular bike. It ends up being a good drop in points, and no loss of survivability (he already says for a 2+ before buying the jetbike). You loose the acid rounds on him, but he is an assault character anyways so is more at home in an outrider or command squad.

[rendingon1+]

If you are planning on running a Preator, I would syrongly advise downgrading his ride to a regular bike. It ends up being a good drop in points, and no loss of survivability (he already says for a 2+ before buying the jetbike). You loose the acid rounds on him, but he is an assault character anyways so is more at home in an outrider or command squad.

In my exprience I learned that elite RW unit (preator + comman squad) is better on jetbikes. Sometimes you need to fly over some unit or piece of terrain to get a charge at desirable target. Besides ability to "escape" only applies to jetbikes and imho it's one of the strongest RW rules. + ignoring dangerous terrain test when moving through is not to be underestimated.

That said, if you play less chaotically than me :) , praetor on a bike is perfectly good and indeed it saves points that are never in excess when you build RW list.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

If you are planning on running a Preator, I would syrongly advise downgrading his ride to a regular bike. It ends up being a good drop in points, and no loss of survivability (he already says for a 2+ before buying the jetbike). You loose the acid rounds on him, but he is an assault character anyways so is more at home in an outrider or command squad.

In my exprience I learned that elite RW unit (preator + comman squad) is better on jetbikes. Sometimes you need to fly over some unit or piece of terrain to get a charge at desirable target. Besides ability to "escape" only applies to jetbikes and imho it's one of the strongest RW rules. + ignoring dangerous terrain test when moving through is not to be underestimated.

That said, if you play less chaotically than me , praetor on a bike is perfectly good and indeed it saves points that are never in excess when you build RW list.

Thanks - I like to see some differing perspectives out there. I read a bike/jetbike tactica recently where the author suggested that Outriders make for better combat units, as they can take more power weapons, apothecaries can join them etc, and jet bikes are better used as a long ranged fire support unit. That said, I can see your point Redington about the movement flexibility of jet bikes being really helpful in closing the gap to assault range.

I would be interested to hear your (and others') perspectives on this distinction? Does it hold in practice, or is it something that's largely theoretical?

**Edit - autocorrect fails**

[Lord Asvaldir]

I would agree that in general outriders are better as an assault unit since they have access to power weapons, while jetbikes are better fire support since they have heavy bolters plus good extra weapon options. That being said the destiction doesn't matter when you're talking about command squads because regardless of whether you take jet bikes or bikes the squad can take power weapons.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Hmmmm, ok, so a jet bike command squad sort of gets the best of both worlds, then?

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'd say so yeah. None of the drawbacks normal jetbikes units suffer from (lack of power weapons) while they still keep all the mobility jetbikes benefit from over normal bikes.