What have your Raven Guard done lately?

[duz_]

Chainsword option sounds good :tu:

[MajorNese]

If I understand the successor flow chart this means I've got access to the RG strats and wargear and for 1CP I get a relic (Ex-tenebris most likely).

 

You can only convert a relic/SIW to a RG relic for 1CP, but it does not give you an additional one. That would require an additional CP for the generic Relics Of The Chapter strat.

You can give one Relic of the Ravenspire (pg 58) to a CHARACTER [...] instead of giving them a Special-issue Wargear Relic (pg 59) or a Chapter Relic from Codex: Space Marines.

Don't know if you meant that by "get a relic", but otherwise you are correct.

 

As for the Teeth of Terra - 9 attacks at STR6, AP-2, D2 sound great against primaris, but won't considerably dent any vehicle at just a 5+. Not to mention knights and other centerpiece models, which are a smash captain's primary target.

 

MC Thunder Hammer might be overused, but Str9 AP-3 4D will wound anything (except for FW superheavies) on a 3+, have better AP, and do twice the damage per unsaved attack.

 

Running the quick mathhammer - T7-8 with 3+ save will suffer 3.9W 5.8W by Teeth, and 17.8W by MC hammer (not counting Master Artisans reroll, that's awful to calculate).

Edited December 11, 2019 by MajorNese

[thewarriorhunter]

Thanks for the math, Major. I agree the TH is a better damage dealer and I have considered Master Crafting it. 4D is assuming you roll a 3 on the damage roll, right? So it's basing at 2 and having at 4?

 

That being said I think the Teeth of Terra is more thematic for my army. I can easily magnetize both options. I also plan on getting some more AT into my list to help with armor. I'm not in a competitive meta and rarely see knights on the table.

[MajorNese]

Thanks for the math, Major. I agree the TH is a better damage dealer and I have considered Master Crafting it. 4D is assuming you roll a 3 on the damage roll, right? So it's basing at 2 and having at 4?

The TH has fixed 3 damage - the (otherwise identical) power fist has d3 damage. With MC, the TH has fixed 4. Though I forgot the additional attacks of Teeth in my calculation, making it rather 5.8D vs. 17.8D. Still, it takes 2-3 rounds of CC to punch dead a single generic tank, unlike the rather reliable hammer.

 

While I agree that Teeth (I use an Eviscerator for that one) are more thematic, it doesn't offer anything you can't get elsewhere.

Whether it's S5 or S6 doesn't matter when tackling vehicles, and S5 AP-1/2 is ridiculously readily available.

In contrast, the MC hammer on an Imperium's Sword captain (without Master Artisans rerolls) equates exactly to the average damage of 8 lascannon shots (without rerolls), or 2 Predator Annihilators rolled into a single dude. Just without all those annoying damage rolls of 1 or 2.

[duz_]

What about a Relic blade?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

From the fluff perspective there are more "blade-like" options out there to fulfill the hammer requirement. Both spike hammers and axe hammers are totally a thing, and would be rather easy to convert one up for your Smash-captain.

 

While I don't see the lore of your chapter in the great detail that you do, I feel like one of the above is more "fitting" than a man-sized chainsaw, in terms of elegance and a more tribal period of their homeworld's history.

 

Personally I was already eyeing up the Corvus Hammer (from the Ravenwing kits) for a Thunder Hammer analog for my RG due to it's aesthetics, but its a little too elegant and not brutal enough (for my liking) but it might be a good fit for you!

 

Major already aced all the math so I will let that be.

 

I think your successor trait choices are top tier and a great way to go. I think diverting away from RG (sneaky-stealthy) to a more savage/noble/artisan (Glitz/glam/stabby-wabby) fits the aesthetic of your scheme and the background. You can still fulfill all the sneaky beaky bits with our deplyoment manipulation well too.

 

Master Artisans also provides great return as well to offset the -1 of Thunder Hammers. Your current suggested loadout (MC Hammer, those two WL traits, SS) is the "perfect storm" imo of choices for top lethality. 

[MajorNese]

When it should look more blade-y, maybe something similar to Marvel's Stormbreaker? One side hammer, one side axe.

 

What about a Relic blade?

Let's see...with the WL strength buff and Master Crafted, that would be S7 AP-3 d3+1 damage.

Damage wise, d3+1 averages to 3D - what it increases in average damage (2D->3D), it loses in additional attacks (9A->6A) compared to Teeth.
But it suffers the same core problem as Teeth - S7 would be okay-ish against T7, but still just as bad against T8 as S6. Being 4D instead of 3D is not the core quality of the hammer - wounding T8 on 3+ is. Against character knights it becomes ridiculous turn 2 - pretty much the holy grail of hitting/wounding a superheavy on 2+, with fixed high damage and just a 6+ save left.

 

And, as weird as it sounds (and unless there's an FAQ), the Master Crafted strat only excludes weapons that have "master-crafted" in their name, so a relic blade can be master-crafted. Apparently the other relic blades are simply average blades that have just been around for a long time...

[thewarriorhunter]

 

Thanks for the math, Major. I agree the TH is a better damage dealer and I have considered Master Crafting it. 4D is assuming you roll a 3 on the damage roll, right? So it's basing at 2 and having at 4?

The TH has fixed 3 damage - the (otherwise identical) power fist has d3 damage. With MC, the TH has fixed 4. Though I forgot the additional attacks of Teeth in my calculation, making it rather 5.8D vs. 17.8D. Still, it takes 2-3 rounds of CC to punch dead a single generic tank, unlike the rather reliable hammer.

 

Yup, I was thinking of the PF profile, I got that and the TH mixed up. You can tell I've never fielded either before

 

 

 

While I don't see the lore of your chapter in the great detail that you do, I feel like one of the above is more "fitting" than a man-sized chainsaw, in terms of elegance and a more tribal period of their homeworld's history.

 

I appreciate the compliment and was actually thinking of that today. To date I actually have very little Primaris painted up. Some shooty HQs, 5 intercessors, and a Redemptor are all that I can field. I'm probably going to work on getting some CC Reivers done so I can work more on getting into melee.

 

I'll have to look at other bit options because finding a hammerish-blade would be great so I could run it as either. I was actually looking at some Harlequin blades left over from my daughter's kill team for a Teeth of Terra. I've got plenty of THs and SS from my VV kit that I'm not sure if I'll ever build now... although equipping them with Lightning claws or double chainswords might be a nice escort for the captain. I've got lots of options, I really just need to quit typing and start building/painting.

[thewarriorhunter]

When it should look more blade-y, maybe something similar to Marvel's Stormbreaker? One side hammer, one side axe.

 

What about a Relic blade?

Let's see...with the WL strength buff and Master Crafted, that would be S7 AP-3 d3+1 damage.

Damage wise, d3+1 averages to 3D - what it increases in average damage (2D->3D), it loses in additional attacks (9A->6A) compared to Teeth.

But it suffers the same core problem as Teeth - S7 would be okay-ish against T7, but still just as bad against T8 as S6. Being 4D instead of 3D is not the core quality of the hammer - wounding T8 on 3+ is. Against character knights it becomes ridiculous turn 2 - pretty much the holy grail of hitting/wounding a superheavy on 2+, with fixed high damage and just a 6+ save left.

 

And, as weird as it sounds (and unless there's an FAQ), the Master Crafted strat only excludes weapons that have "master-crafted" in their name, so a relic blade can be master-crafted. Apparently the other relic blades are simply average blades that have just been around for a long time...

I guess you could cast Might of Heroes on him with a master crafted relic blade, that would bump you to S8, right? It's one more moving part so I'm not sure if that's the best route.

[MajorNese]

Well, since a Smash Captain with Hungry for Battle can rather reliably deep strike - that would be severely restricted in range around a libby/chaplain. Not to mention the libby would be an additional investment of points and slots.

 

As mentioned in the Dicehammer reddit link - smash captains are most effectively used when identifying the single largest threat and throwing that dude at it (though I rarely use smashies, so I'll have to trust that reddit guy).

 

Too many deployment restrictions (on the board and next to chappy/libby instead of next to the target by any means), a failed dice roll (psychic test, Deny, litany, long charge) or only wounding its key target on a coin toss (which every IG player can attest - it can go horribly wrong) and the entire investment of points/relics/WT/CP goes down the drain by not quite reaching AND killing the target.

 

Yes, there's a lot of gimmicks in our supplement and in the marine codex in general (which is quite tempting at times), but the less gimmick-y solutions tend to be more reliable, and with more approaches/less points of failure. Our strength lies in twisting deployment/movement to counter our opponent's approach in surprising ways, not waste those options on something that could have been done easier. So yes, I'd just go for a hammer, and leave the libby free to use the more awesome disruptive stuff.

[duz_]

Less gimmicks also tend to lead to better games for you and your opponent in my opinion...

 

I still like the teeth of terra option even if it's not the most optimised but that's my preferred play style

[thewarriorhunter]

Less gimmicks also tend to lead to better games for you and your opponent in my opinion...

 

I still like the teeth of terra option even if it's not the most optimised but that's my preferred play style

That's where I'm leaning. Find a cool looking blade and go for it. Thematically my boys wouldn't prefer a knife to guns and I'm hoping to eventually build to that. If I ever want to get super competitive I can throw a hammer on him.

 

I went through my bits last night and I've got this body from my DI set. I like it because it's one of the more dynamic poses and it's non-phobos (personal preference). I think I'll use that as a base and stick the jump pack from Setorax on him (with the RG bits clipped off). I'll piece together the shield and weapons and be on my way.

 

[Entry1]

I grabbed this weapon pack from Kromlech and have been using it for my Teeth of Terra, not sure if your against non GW parts but the Chain Swords look great IMO.  The large one has an Old School Final Fantasy feel to it and looks intimidating to boot.   

 

https://bitsofwar.com/home/8-rippers.html

 

Edit-If it would help I can post a picture of both chainswords that I applied to the models for scale and size comparison

 

Brian 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Entry1

[thewarriorhunter]

I've got some Kromlech bits that I really like. I won one of their 6" measuring tools and grabbed some stuff back then. I'll have to give them another look for weapons.

[MajorNese]

Less gimmicks also tend to lead to better games for you and your opponent in my opinion...

Agreed. With 3 Editions of playing tricksy armies, I regularly created a lot of confusion for nothing.

 

You recite strats, rules, effects, buffs, roll several dice, go through a rollercoaster of emotions...and answer the confused expression of your opponent with "Forget it, didn't work".

[duz_]

Story of my Mordian lists :lol:

 

And they weren't even that gimmicky :(

[duz_]

Awkward amount of time before I leave for my trip but broke out my 6 Aggressors for painting last night

 

Should get a good way through them before leaving. Highlighting will definitely be in the new year.

[chapter master 454]

 

Less gimmicks also tend to lead to better games for you and your opponent in my opinion...

Agreed. With 3 Editions of playing tricksy armies, I regularly created a lot of confusion for nothing.

 

You recite strats, rules, effects, buffs, roll several dice, go through a rollercoaster of emotions...and answer the confused expression of your opponent with "Forget it, didn't work".

 

 

Or it goes something like:

"Did it do it?"

"Yes...but actually no"

[Hiroitchi]

Last project for my Raptors, a Repulsor Executioner. I am almost done with my Sternguard and Remaining 10th Company Models then my Raptors Task Force is complete.

 

I did the play a 1500 point Ascension game against GSC. I tabled him on turn two and then tabled him again on turn three since sudden death doesn’t apply for the mission. Feels bad.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Hiroitchi

[ShinyRhino]

Just finished a three round ITC tourney at the FLGS.

I hadn't played since October, so I tried to keep things simple and remember all my rules.

 

First game was against Nids. 99 Genestealers, Swarmlord, bunches of Broodlords, etc. Absolute bloodbath by the end. We'r both had less than ten models left at the end. Lost 34-17.

 

Second was against your classic Guard artillery list, piloted by a new player who didn't own the army he was playing. Super boring list to play against. Move and maneuver a ton during my turn, have it all not matter when buckets of artillery were poured on me each turn. Lost 15-12, purely because we only finished three turns in three hours.

 

Last game against Sisters. They had the ability to ignore AP-1, or -2 near some banner. Boatloads of rerolls, miracle dice, etc etc. Lost 35-17.

 

My Eliminator unit caused a total of four wounds over three games. Not a good first outing. I just don't understand how these guys are scary.

 

The "NOVA L" terrain concept needs to die in a fire. Having 2 square feet of the center of the board be inaccessible to anything other than infantry and completely block line of sight is terrible. You just end up with fast infantry warping through the walls and either charging your whole army, or firing buckets of dice at you without having taken any fire on the way in.

 

Granted, I brought a list I thought was fun to play and had models I liked playing, but the ITC six terrain pieces mode has me considering not bothering any more. Not because I lost a lot (I won best sport for the day), but because there's no fun in it anymore.

 

I still can't figure out how to use a Phobos warlord, and the Phobos Librarian was mediocre at best throwing mortal wounds around with Smite, Abyss, and Darkness. He spent the whole second game Shrouding/babysitting Eliminators who couldn't kill a single character all game.

[Dracos]

Been painting my Inceptors. I'll post some pics in my Warhawk thread next day or two along with the two boxes od Centurians I finally was able to get y hands on with a box of 10 Incursors - woot!

 

Excited to start in on the Incursors. I'm waiting for some Reliquary buzzsaw bits to count as siege drills but they won't arrive until January. So Incursors and my Smash Captain (Pop Goes the Monkey bitz) built on my 6th Inceptor body are my next projects. This will give me the 1000 points of painted material to play with until get the Eliminators, Centurians, and other HQs done for the tournament list. 

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Playing my first game with my Raven Guard tomorrow. I'm packing Primaris Shrike, all of Shadowspear's Marines, an extra Shadowspear Eliminator squad, 5 Reivers with knives and no mobility equipment and about 1k of Custodes allies. It's a neat list, and I'm gonna have fun.

[MajorNese]

Just got back from our monthly local 1250p tournament.

Scoring was simple - two objectives in the center, each player scores at the end of his turn.

One player sets up entirely, then the other.

 

My list:

-Shrike and Lt with Ex Tenebris/MoA

-2x5 Incursors (with mines)

-6 bolt rifle Intercessors (powerfist, grenade launcher)

-Invictor (autocannon)

-TFC

-Razorback (lascannons)

-2x3 Eliminators (BSR, 1x Korvidari bolts)

-6 Inceptors (bolt)

 

First game was against a local guard player, and the game was pretty much decided from the start - the guy has been around for ages, but hasn't read the rules in detail and is rather "resilient" when it comes to advice. Hasn't selected a regiment (since that's "powergamer stuff"), never used strats, needlessly moved heavy weapons, shot AT at infantry and anti infantry at tanks, and put HWS out into the open in bolter range. Despite not using any strats myself, I all but tabled that guy in 2 turns, which took more time than 4-5 turns on every other table. Not much learned to be honest.

 

Second game was against a weird tzeench demon resilience troll list, and the other guy got first round.

One side was held down by winged demon prince and flamer/exalted flamer, I couldn't really gain a foothold there. Put an Incursor squad there to delay, at least those units didn't touch anything else. LoS was an issue too, couldn't really shoot that stuff.

Other side was a challenge, but worked later. Huge blob of pink horrors (buffed to 3++) and greater demon (also 3++) overran Invictor and the 6 Intercessors. They took a ridiculous amount of firepower, only managed to take down the greater demon with tac doctrine'd Inceptors near Shrike/Lt, and then charged the horrors blob with everything I had. I used the DS strat on the second Incursor squad, those charged in from the back and ObSec'd the objective despite numerical demon superiority. And 6 Inceptors, Shrike, Lt, Razorback charged too - the RB even killed a horror, Shrike didn't. In the end I took it, but couldn't do anything against the other objective.

 

In the end I lost 8-3. It would have been a better choice to start the Inceptors on the board and focus more troops on the objective I took later though, might have cleared the horrors earlier.

 

Third game was against harlequins, and a balanced give-and-take game.

A squad of 6(?) jetbikes, two transports with melta pistol dudes and character, and 4 teleporting footslogging characters, deployed in the farthest corner (not that it matters).

I got first turn, so took&mined both objectives with Incursors, MoA'd the Intercessors and Lt to one objective, shielded the backfield TFC with Elims/Shrike/Razorback - Harlies have threat range "Yes", so that came in handy at his first turn already.

 

Invictor deployed center, killed a spare troops unit. TFC/Invictor/Incursors/Tenebris thinned out the jetbikes.

He moved everything everywhere, with one transport for each objective, jetbikes and 3 characters in my backfield. One transport failed to kill the Incursors and locked them in CC, that stayed that way until game end. The other clustered up with some characters and charged into Incursor/Intercessor/Lt and the Invictor, which I mopped up after 2 rounds, though losing both squads.

 

My backfield was a weird clutter of charging jetbikes/characters against backfield stuff+Shrike - spending 2 CP to use Shrike after he activated another unit meant he killed 2 jetbikes before they hit him, then the TFC gunner disassembled the last one. Solitaire killed 2 Elims, then stood in the open and tanked a ridiculous amount of shots (despite +1 hit/wound for characters).

Deep striking Inceptors took care of that area - unloading on one character at range, and killing the other in CC.

In the end I secured my backfield and one objective, then went over to contest the other with Shrike/Razorback as my Inceptors were ground down.

Ended the game with a 6-5 win, with the Harlies player and me sharing 3rd place out of 8.

 

The more games I play the more I value the RG buff against characters. With Tzeentch, it was the only way to kill the damned 3++ greater demon. With Harlies, it was the only way to take out his incredibly fast characters, approaching some degree of reliability.

The AP doctrine buffs were pretty worthless, but that might have been the matchup - Tzeentch and Harlies simply don't care about AP.

 

To recap the units:

• Incursors are okay. For slightly higher cost, they take ground and are reasonably resilient when doing so. The mines worked in 3 out of 6 cases, but made some advances/charges questionable - that's okay, I'll continue to use them
• MoA Intercessors are good to reinforce the center, or lock stuff in CC if I go first. Not stellar but okay, I'll replace them with autobolt rifles once those are painted
• Shrike and Tenebrius are good as always. Shrike buffs the backline turn 1 and maybe 2, then heads out with the Inceptors, and only mops up units instead of tackling that centerpiece beatstick. Neither died once.
• Inceptors were stellar. Lost only a single model over the course of 3 games, and 36 shots+rerolls+anti character buff take care of anything. And same as on the recent 6-player game - once they deep strike behind the screening units, they are the most incredible sniper unit I've ever used...
• TFC is damned effective. The recent increase to BS2+ means it will hit. And will wound any character reliably. And takes out objective campers. I'll need a second one on the long run...
• Eliminators kinda didn't do much. They wounded okay, but didn't put out MWs and the invuls prevented any damage getting through with those few dice. I might downsize them or add las fusils (currently 3 almost finished painting) on a 1-2 per squad basis
• Korvidari bolts were entirely wasted - the Silentus pistol might be interesting instead, to add something new. Maybe deep strike with autobolt Intercessors, to make use of that nice +1 hit/wound.
• Invictor was worth it as a skirmisher in 2 out of 3 games, it only whiffed against the 3++ -1D greater demon. Though moving and only hitting on a 4+ (or 5+ harlies) sucks, I might try the flamer next time
• Razorback was intended to draw AT fire cheaply, but got ignored in every single game. Might scrap it for LandSpeeder Tempests.

Now I'll go back to painting.

Inceptors are up to 9 thanks to the Boxing Day Bash, so I might add even more in the next games. Las fusil Eliminators are all but done. Then autobolt Intercessors and a Reiver Lt.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Painted my Helix Adept yesterday, and my Phobos Vordin Krayn's nearly done too, plus I got the base and drybrush done on everyone else who isn't done. As far as battles, I got stomped by Iron Hands, but I had fun using all of the Phobos deployment tricks. I could swear that every single Phobos model has a deployment trick of some kind (except base Reivers). Everyone has either Concealed or a deepstrike, it's neat.

[MajorNese]

I decided to put my experiences from recent games into a picture...