DA 8th Edition Info

[Conine]

I put together a quick list with models I know I have on hand. If my math is write (you are definitely going to need some kind of army builder this edition putting a list together involves a lot of page flipping and checking to make sure you priced out each gear item) comes to 9 points short of 1500 without the watcher. I threw him in cause nothing could take melta bombs. 

 

Belial 

2x 5 man DW with AC, CF 

5 man DW Knights with Watcher

DW Champion

LRC (for knights, Belial and Champion) 

5 man RW Bike squad with 2 PG (teleport homers don't exist anymore or RW don't have them FYI)

[Elios Harg]

De

 

 

God if that points thing is right. That's 50 points per DW knight (saw elsewhere the storm shield is 5 points on basic models). That seems way expensive since they lost quite a bit of what they had.

Also why in earth would you ever supercharge plasma? It doesn't seem worth it on anything I've seen.

Just play with power rating instead thats what i will be doing. I think im gonna give up on points for awhile.

 

Deathwing Knights actually seem quite a bit better than before. They go up 15 points for a unit of 5. But they essentially get to smite every attack now instead of giving up all their attacks for a single smite per model. They lost fortress of shields, but gained a wound per model.  They can hypothetically charge after deep strike, though it's a long shot needing a 9 or better on their charge roll. Precision strikes are gone, but if there is a character in combat that you want to attack, you just allocate attacks to him now. All-in-all, I think it is a net win for DWKs.

 

Black Knights are also a net win. They also gained a wound. They basically retain the same shooting for plasma talons, but they would have been far better had they retained rapid fire. On the bright side, they can turbo boost and still shoot, which means jink can be always on. Grenade launchers are really bad in comparison. I now really wish I had never modeled any knights with grenade launchers. Corvus hammers seem to be a little worse overall. Sure, they get -1 AP, but the old rending is better than the new one.

[jbaeza94]

I'm just kind of upset that we still don't get contemptors. I hope imperial armor changes that.

[TheBoosch]

Blade of Caliban is now +3 Strength, -3 AP and D3 Damage.

 

That is a massive improvement on a power sword and means a company champion could go hunting bigger prey.

 

Very fitting for the blades that once slew the great beasts.

 

KOTFL

I'm not sure, but it looks to me like that is for the Ravenwing Champion only. Our Compnay Champions can only take Relic Blades (+2 str, -3 AP, D3 Dam). Still a decent weapon.

[Elios Harg]

 

Blade of Caliban is now +3 Strength, -3 AP and D3 Damage.

 

That is a massive improvement on a power sword and means a company champion could go hunting bigger prey.

 

Very fitting for the blades that once slew the great beasts.

 

KOTFL

I'm not sure, but it looks to me like that is for the Ravenwing Champion only. Our Compnay Champions can only take Relic Blades (+2 str, -3 AP, D3 Dam). Still a decent weapon.

 

The list of units from space marines has a note regarding company champions that they get the blade of caliban instead.

[Magos Valkamar]

How are people interpreting the 'named characters in successors' rule? If I'm reading it correctly, it sounds as if you're allowed to take Azrael in your DIY chapter for example, but you can't call him Azreal.

[TheBoosch]

 

 

Blade of Caliban is now +3 Strength, -3 AP and D3 Damage.

 

That is a massive improvement on a power sword and means a company champion could go hunting bigger prey.

 

Very fitting for the blades that once slew the great beasts.

 

KOTFL

I'm not sure, but it looks to me like that is for the Ravenwing Champion only. Our Compnay Champions can only take Relic Blades (+2 str, -3 AP, D3 Dam). Still a decent weapon.

 

The list of units from space marines has a note regarding company champions that they get the blade of caliban instead.

 

Ahh I was looking at captain (company master) and not company champion. 

[SnakeChisler]

Anyone know if you can Deep Strike your Terminators 1st turn yet or not?

[TheBoosch]

Anyone know if you can Deep Strike your Terminators 1st turn yet or not?

The rules under deathwing say "at the end of any of your movement phases" so it looks ok! You do have to set up at least half of your models on the board for match play thouhg..

[SnakeChisler]

 

Anyone know if you can Deep Strike your Terminators 1st turn yet or not?

The rules under deathwing say "at the end of any of your movement phases" so it looks ok! You do have to set up at least half of your models on the board for match play thouhg..

 

Yes but given the Ravenwing rules with Sammaeal on movement and the Black Knights the old 1 / 2 Death Raven combo looks to be at 1st glance a pretty deadly combo + both Belial and Sammael look to be tooled up to live up to their Rep

 

Anyways I'm guessing that there's going to be something about reserves can't believe they'd just let you down all your terminators in one go T1 

[Knight Master Eladric]

Deathwing Knights actually seem quite a bit better than before. They go up 15 points for a unit of 5. But they essentially get to smite every attack now instead of giving up all their attacks for a single smite per model. They lost fortress of shields, but gained a wound per model. They can hypothetically charge after deep strike, though it's a long shot needing a 9 or better on their charge roll. Precision strikes are gone, but if there is a character in combat that you want to attack, you just allocate attacks to him now. All-in-all, I think it is a net win for DWKs.

 

Here's where I have to disagree. Yes we got a wound, but so did all terminators. So we lost fortress of shields. Smite is nice, but we only get 2 A now, losing one from charging and another from hammer of wrath. Also they are +3 to hit, so just as good to hit as a normal marine. And to throw insult to injury, the Inner Circle /Deathwing /Unforgiven special rule now only applies to Fallen and not CSM. Turn 1 deepstrike with assaulting is great and definitely needed but I still feel like these guys lost a lot of what made them different from other terminators. Just how much better are they then a squad of THSS guys who can also take a CML if they want?

[RayJ]

Something to think about: DW terminators cost the same as SM tactical terminators and are 5 points cheaper than assault terminators.

 

Also, 50 ppm for knights is solid for what they are bringing, especially on the flail. You'll just need to keep the standard nearby (and now it can affect multiple squads)

[Pbenner]

Something to think about: DW terminators cost the same as SM tactical terminators and are 5 points cheaper than assault terminators.

 

Also, 50 ppm for knights is solid for what they are bringing, especially on the flail. You'll just need to keep the standard nearby (and now it can affect multiple squads)

 

Getting a Standard where he's needed should be cake with the call your own shots reserves rules.  Get your charge setup and dump him right where he's needed.  Sounds win to me.  

[RayJ]

I'm seriously considering Asmodai and the Ancients to get some buff stacks. Should be fun.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I honestly don't understand the extreme points inflation they're doing this edition, but it really does look like 2500 might become the basic size for tournies and leagues.

[Pbenner]

In 6th edition IIRC we saw a pretty sharp decrease in costs, so it does vary a little.  

 

More points and smaller armies means less excuse to not paint... :D

 

Paul

[Elios Harg]

 

Deathwing Knights actually seem quite a bit better than before. They go up 15 points for a unit of 5. But they essentially get to smite every attack now instead of giving up all their attacks for a single smite per model. They lost fortress of shields, but gained a wound per model. They can hypothetically charge after deep strike, though it's a long shot needing a 9 or better on their charge roll. Precision strikes are gone, but if there is a character in combat that you want to attack, you just allocate attacks to him now. All-in-all, I think it is a net win for DWKs.

Here's where I have to disagree. Yes we got a wound, but so did all terminators. So we lost fortress of shields. Smite is nice, but we only get 2 A now, losing one from charging and another from hammer of wrath. Also they are +3 to hit, so just as good to hit as a normal marine. And to throw insult to injury, the Inner Circle /Deathwing /Unforgiven special rule now only applies to Fallen and not CSM. Turn 1 deepstrike with assaulting is great and definitely needed but I still feel like these guys lost a lot of what made them different from other terminators. Just how much better are they then a squad of THSS guys who can also take a CML if they want?

 

Deathwing terminators with TH/SS will run 5 more points for a squad of 5. They will hit less often due to 4+, but ignore more armor due to -1 better AP. Against non-stormshield (anything with 4++ or better eliminates the AP advantage of hammers, making knights superior) terminators or other 2+ saves, the TH/SS terminators are marginally better (3.8 (TH) vs. 3.3 (DWK) kills) . However, against single wound marines (and units with lower T and worse saves) then you want the knights as they are 35% more effective vs. single wound, T4, 3+ models (3.82 (TH) vs. 5.19 (DWK)). Against big models with T7 or better, the thunder hammers move ahead again due to the S6 of the flail and the lower AP on the maces, but the knights are still not terrible here. It seems knights are more effective against a larger range of opponents, while straight TH/SS terminators are superior against big stuff and 2+ armor without good invulnerable saves.

[RayJ]

I've worked up a list with 21 terminators, asmodai, and 4 tanks at 2k. Seems ok to me as far as size goes. I can also easily swap asmodai for belial by trimming a hunter-killer somewhere

[Pbenner]

BRING ON THE FORGEWORLD STUFF!

 

With all the changes I can't wait to see how awesome my Storm Eagles are, and if that's (2) flier slots I'm in love.  ^_^

 

Paul

[Crazy Jay]

Does Belial still have the option to take TH/SS?

[jbaeza94]

Yes

[Crazy Jay]

So the Dark Shroud's ability says enemies subtract 1 from their to hit when targeting DA units with in 6 inches. So if Overwatch still requires a 6 to hit does this mean we can negate all non-auto hit Overwatch attacks?

[Saphrael]

After sleeping on this I'm absolutely gutted by these rules.

 

Obviously I'll reserve final judgement until after I've played a few games and figured out how 8th really plays, but just about everything in our book got a serious nerf and/or lost its unique flavour. I understand this is just a stand-in until we get a full dex, but my entire collection (full battle company, 1850+ of RW and 1850+ of DW) all go more expensive and/or worse, with only a handful of minor exceptions.

 

Especially since my main (pretty much only) opponent is an ork player whose book got way better across the board (though to be fair, it needed to).

[Cypher 102]

So the Dark Shroud's ability says enemies subtract 1 from their to hit when targeting DA units with in 6 inches. So if Overwatch still requires a 6 to hit does this mean we can negate all non-auto hit Overwatch attacks?

Just checked out the main rulebook.  Overwatch hits on 6s regardless of BS or modifiers.

 

My question is will 2 or more Dark Shrouds stack modifiers?  If a squad is within range of 2 of them will the enemy get -2?  -3 if hit with Aversion as well?  That can get pretty rude real fast.

[aura_enchanted]

I'm just kind of upset that we still don't get contemptors. I hope imperial armor changes that.

=][= What are you =][= on about? You can take them all you want you just have to pick different chapter tactics for them from our own. Don't even need a new detachment. Edited June 1, 2017 by Bryan Blaire
Do not use chat/leet speak to type a message here - it is a violation of the board rules and can warrant escalating disciplinary action for repeat offenses