DA 8th Edition Info

[Solrac]

We need to stop comparing unit by unit basis 7th vs 8th and start thinking about what the new 8th unit brings with the combos we can make with characters and special rules and command points.

 

Using Terminators to overload one whole side of an enemy's flank is now more powerful than it was before because of no scatter.

[aura_enchanted]

After sleeping on all the rules of the google drive I have to say that the dark Angels got roughed up but not without tools.

 

The land raider excelsior was nerfed into the pavement that benches him for me and it sucks.

 

Ezekiel finally got the buff he needed. I'm in love with a librarian. When it's financially viable I'm buying the real one.

 

I'll be loading up on veterans like I did in 6th. I'm thinking 2 squads should suffice.

 

With the buffs to horde armies I look to forgeworld to save my land raider Helios from the fires of obscurity.

[jbaeza94]

 

I'm just kind of upset that we still don't get contemptors. I hope imperial armor changes that.

=][= What are you =][= on about? You can take them all you want you just have to pick different chapter tactics for them from our own. Don't even need a new detachment.

Edit: nvm, now I get your comment. Edited June 1, 2017 by Bryan Blaire
Corrected quoted rules violation

[Pbenner]

I suspect that we'll have to look to Forgeworld for a lot of the other toys, which is sad.  I've got a laundry list of FW toys for my Deathwing and I'd hate to lose them...

[Polythemus]

Howdy boys,

 

after doing some serious lurking after becoming a Dad, i wanted to throw a little sunlight on the doom around here.

1.) Dark angels through the mid-end of seventh were a top tier army, but couldn't really run with necrons eldar tau. there were many with way worse books, almost all the space marine players are feeling some pain. I don't know many necron or eldar points costs but there have been many changes across the board to have points more accurately reflect unit abilities. you are not alone, lots of stuff that was mildly to severely OP has been jacked up in price and GW has said they will revisit points as needed.

2. ) All of theses edits are happening at the same time, that is huge. nobody aside from the playtest group has played this thing yet. so have some faith with all the edits at the same time there should be more thoughtful list making and less spam. the meta where you are has totally imploded, and no body is way out ahead.

3.) with some of what has been done i actually expect that there will be many fewer blow-out wins and losses. the margins will be finer so we cant rely on black knights to the rescue, similar OP units to take the day.

 

Have faith guys, were all taking this plunge together.

[Berzul]

Reading some of the latests posts, yeah, you could say that in some respects, the new edition will seem problematic, but hey, there are a LOT of things to love.

 

Everyone has mentioned the new viability of DW pure armies, that were so hard to manage in the 7th codex, just to mention the biggest and most noticeable example of good things in this edition.

 

Personally, what I am loving most is how  power weapons, storm shields, powerfists and combi-weapons all got (in some cases) cheaper, and (in all cases) increibly more useful and available! I always used to struggle with wether or not to take special weaponry for sergeants in my usual games. But now? Oh boy, I'm giving everyone some shiny new toys to play with! :D

 

Combi weapons on tactical sergeants that don't run out of ammo? And Power sword + Storm shield combos for veterans at less than 10 points a piece? What a time to be gaming... I can finally field veterans with swords and shields as greenwing knights, without feeling like it is nothing but a waste of points.

 

In fact, I would not be surprised to see veterans going from being the least used unit in our codex, to being one of the most used. Specially as a way to bring in some close combat strength to the army, which always seemed to be the Greenwing's weakest side. GREENWING KNIGHTS!!

[Orkinstein]

After sleeping on all the rules of the google drive I have to say that the dark Angels got roughed up but not without tools.

 

The land raider excelsior was nerfed into the pavement that benches him for me and it sucks.

 

Ezekiel finally got the buff he needed. I'm in love with a librarian. When it's financially viable I'm buying the real one.

 

I'll be loading up on veterans like I did in 6th. I'm thinking 2 squads should suffice.

 

With the buffs to horde armies I look to forgeworld to save my land raider Helios from the fires of obscurity.

 

Yes. I feel very disappoint to the rules of my land raider excelsior. Now it lost all special abilities... just a land raider with 5++...rhino primaris is still useful though.

[twopounder]

 

Can anyone see the Nephilumps gun stats? How many shots now?

Also the rift cannon if you can cheers.

On my phone is teribad

Avenger Megabolter Heavy 10 S6 Ap -1 D1

Blacksword Missiles Heavy 1 S7 Ap -3 D2

 

Rift Cannon Heavy d3 S10 Ap -3 Damage 3 plus an additional D3 mortal wounds based on maybe rolling on a table we can't see the whole rules for.

 

Stasis bomb got way better. Hit unit and every model up to 10 rolls a d6. On a 4+ they take a mortal wound

 

 

You roll on the chart above. So if its above 50% wounds, on a 3+ the unit takes an extra d3 mortal wounds. Then a 4+, then 5+.

 

Also, on the reference page, the black sword missile launcher is heavy 10 

 

Land speeders come in squadrons and move 30" as long as there are 3 or more models. They're also WS 3+ with 2 attacks each. They're basically attack bikes with 6w.

 

Ravenwing ancient is kinda nice. +1 attack for all RW units in 6".

 

Ravenwing Champion gets hatred vs characters and Blade of Caliban along with a 2+ ws 5w, t5. 

 

Deathwing knights only have 2 wounds. Perfidious relic became a one shot 3+ vs psychic powers. No T5. They are always s8 ap-2 D3 now though (OUCH) Flail gives str6 ap-3 D2, but the damage is done to the unit, not just the model. WS5 didn't carry over (WS 3+)

 

IC are ws2+, all DA units within 6" reroll attacks in close combat and can use his LD, enemy units within 6" have -1 LD

 

Jink is crap. Unforgiven should just be called "Deathwing".

 

Dark Angels begged roboute to keep 1st and 2nd company. In every other respect they are becoming ultramarines

 

Asmodai is still Asmoderp. Actually has fewer wounds than a generic I-C. BoR basically the same. The only buff is that his hatred rule grants all DA within 6" an extra attack. If you're interested in an I-C though, you're better off with a generic version in terminator armor or on a bike. Oh well, maybe 9th edition will see him worthwhile again.

[Orkinstein]

 

 

Can anyone see the Nephilumps gun stats? How many shots now?

Also the rift cannon if you can cheers.

On my phone is teribad

Avenger Megabolter Heavy 10 S6 Ap -1 D1

Blacksword Missiles Heavy 1 S7 Ap -3 D2

 

Rift Cannon Heavy d3 S10 Ap -3 Damage 3 plus an additional D3 mortal wounds based on maybe rolling on a table we can't see the whole rules for.

 

Stasis bomb got way better. Hit unit and every model up to 10 rolls a d6. On a 4+ they take a mortal wound

 

 

You roll on the chart above. So if its above 50% wounds, on a 3+ the unit takes an extra d3 mortal wounds. Then a 4+, then 5+.

 

Also, on the reference page, the black sword missile launcher is heavy 10 

 

Land speeders come in squadrons and move 30" as long as there are 3 or more models. They're also WS 3+ with 2 attacks each. They're basically attack bikes with 6w.

 

Ravenwing ancient is kinda nice. +1 attack for all RW units in 6".

 

Ravenwing Champion gets hatred vs characters and Blade of Caliban along with a 2+ ws 5w, t5. 

 

Deathwing knights only have 2 wounds. Perfidious relic became a one shot 3+ vs psychic powers. No T5. They are always s8 ap-2 D3 now though (OUCH) Flail gives str6 ap-3 D2, but the damage is done to the unit, not just the model. WS5 didn't carry over (WS 3+)

 

IC are ws2+, all DA units within 6" reroll attacks in close combat and can use his LD, enemy units within 6" have -1 LD

 

Jink is crap. Unforgiven should just be called "Deathwing".

 

Dark Angels begged roboute to keep 1st and 2nd company. In every other respect they are becoming ultramarines

 

Asmodai is still Asmoderp. Actually has fewer wounds than a generic I-C. BoR basically the same. The only buff is that his hatred rule grants all DA within 6" an extra attack. If you're interested in an I-C though, you're better off with a generic version in terminator armor or on a bike. Oh well, maybe 9th edition will see him worthwhile again.

 

 

LS can move 20" if they are more than 3 in one units. I think they are fastest close combat unit in our codex now...

[Master Sheol]

Yes jink was better but now we are back in the days of 2/3 edition when only RW has jink

Im am not upset by the DA list cause i feel we still are in the top ten armies

The only thing you would like is those units all SM should have (cataphractii, tartaros, contemptors, AA tanks, SR)

Edited June 1, 2017 by Chaplain Lucifer
Use of chatspeek corrected

[Chaplain Lucifer]

So many complaints and the book still isn't out.

 

Don't forget now there's points and power level. Two differnet ways to blance the games. And no more filthy Xeno allying with each other.

Like any time a new edition and/or codex comes out, some units get better, some worse. It's the natural cycle of things. If everything improved then the power creep would be trough the roof... or we would like Eldar. Do you want DA to be like Eldar? ;)

 

We still need to figure out how this changes work with the even bigger changes on the set of rules. Maybe what looks like a nerf, isn't a nerf after all, but just a power adjustment to fit in with new edition?

 

Plus, rules will be more organic from now on and GW will be more direct and fast in to fixing what is broken.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I've always loved me some Whirlwinds, despite them being much more expensive, Vengeance Missiles are now the business, and Castelan for Horde armies. So much better.

Our DW and RW units are as good as most of the other SM Chapters, the power curve got flattened right across the board. We can actually choose different units than those useful in 7th, wow, who would have thought?

 

:D

IS

[SnakeChisler]

I'm not complaining :)

 

In our local meta I've not played Ravenwing hardly at all the 2+2+ ended up being a game killer, battle Co was fun but got blasted left right and centre by Tau, free Rhino meant 1 turn of movement if you went 1St.

Also a load of garbage rules have hit the dust - night fight, challenges etc etc + psychic got way out of hand and tanks / Dreads were but a fond memory

 

Hail 8th Any spawned units HAVE to be paid for, Razorbacks are looking cool terminators should be back & lead characters took a real buff ( except Asmodai of course dunno who he's hacked off)

 

To me 8th is like having to go down the gym everyday coz you feasted too hard on the bloat of 7th ;)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I was trying to read stuff a bit better. Seems the apotecaries can heal d3 wounds or revive "dead" models. Hmm. Interesting.

[rendingon1+]

Dark Angels begged roboute to keep 1st and 2nd company. In every other respect they are becoming ultramarines

 

Wait... what?!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

 

Dark Angels begged roboute to keep 1st and 2nd company. In every other respect they are becoming ultramarines

 

Wait... what?!

 

That was an oversimplification. ;)

DA didn't beg, they petitioned which sounds a bit better than begging.

And we still have unique enough stuff that makes us are no more Ultramarines than before.

[Stormxlr]

 

 

Dark Angels begged roboute to keep 1st and 2nd company. In every other respect they are becoming ultramarines

 

Wait... what?!

 

That was an oversimplification.

DA didn't beg, they petitioned which sounds a bit better than begging.

And we still have unique enough stuff that makes us are no more Ultramarines than before.

 

In which part of new fluff is this?

[rendingon1+]

Yeah, where is it?

 

So now every chapter, even 1st founding one, needs a seal of approval from RG?

[Ronin_eX]

 

Deathwing Knights actually seem quite a bit better than before. They go up 15 points for a unit of 5. But they essentially get to smite every attack now instead of giving up all their attacks for a single smite per model. They lost fortress of shields, but gained a wound per model. They can hypothetically charge after deep strike, though it's a long shot needing a 9 or better on their charge roll. Precision strikes are gone, but if there is a character in combat that you want to attack, you just allocate attacks to him now. All-in-all, I think it is a net win for DWKs.

Here's where I have to disagree. Yes we got a wound, but so did all terminators. So we lost fortress of shields. Smite is nice, but we only get 2 A now, losing one from charging and another from hammer of wrath. Also they are +3 to hit, so just as good to hit as a normal marine. And to throw insult to injury, the Inner Circle /Deathwing /Unforgiven special rule now only applies to Fallen and not CSM. Turn 1 deepstrike with assaulting is great and definitely needed but I still feel like these guys lost a lot of what made them different from other terminators. Just how much better are they then a squad of THSS guys who can also take a CML if they want?

 

 

This is where it is dangerous to ignore the great many changes 8th edition is bringing under the hood.

 

Fortress of Shields?  Yeah, T5 was an old breakpoint that had a lot of importance.  But with the revised to-wound table, T4 gained a whole lot of oomph that it didn't have before.  Now S6 and S7 harms T4 on a 3+ instead of a 2+.  T5 only begins to matter at S8 and above, and most S8 stuff is single-shot anti-tank now.  The weapons that used to wound terminators on a 2+ and lance through armour were usually S6-7 and AP2.  These weapons are no longer quite the threat they were, have gotten more expensive for everyone, and are now often limited in one form or another.  Grav weapons?  Threatening, but they no longer wound terminators on a 2+ and ignore their armour.  Plasma?  In order to take a terminator out in one hit, they need to risk immediate annihilation from a bad role.  Melta got a price bump and the delivery systems for it (transports, pods, etc.) doubled or even close to trebled in price.  That extra wound is far more valuable than situational T5 ever was.

 

Unforgiven only applying to Fallen now?  Not a huge issue.  First, unless you regularly played Chaos, it was a bit of a waste, and worse it was actually kind of overwhelming for Chaos marines to face us.  We aren't the Grey Knights.  Deathwing are not hunters of all heretic marines.  They hunt the Fallen and this simple rule is a much better representation of that.  And either way it's free, so we're not paying for a vestigial rule that may not come up in the game.  This iteration is closer to the 2nd Edition Deathwing.  Basically, just straight up fearless terminators.

 

And 3+ to hit is apparently bad now?  This to-hit is regardless of their target.  So where our WS5 could have previously been negated by a skilled opponent, we remain 3+ now.  But that's not all, DWK's have one of the few x2 strength weapons that doesn't come with a to-hit penalty.  This is the kind of thing reserved for character models in most forces.  Maintaining a 3+ to-hit with a S8 AP-2 D2 close combat attack is huge.

 

That TH/SS squad is great, but more expensive, hits less reliably in hand-to-hand, and that CML is now a pretty big expenditure.  A squad of DWK's is 250, a squad of TH/SS with a CML is 330.  It hits a bit harder sometimes and is more versatile against some targets, but also costs 80 points more.  That's 80 points that can go toward grabbing a Deathwing Ancient to follow them around to regain that extra attack (while providing its own close combat punch).  80 points can go a long way.  Hell, even dropping the CML means those TH/SS DW are still eating up an extra 30 points over DWK's.

 

So as a pure assault unit?  I think they are generally a better unit than a pure TH/SS DW unit on a point-for-point basis.  They come in cheaper and deal better with a wider variety of targets in close combat.  Getting to strike at full WS and S8, bleed over wounds, and their general toughness combined with pinpoint teleportation are a huge boon to the unit.  And they play very well with the DW heroes we have access to.

 

The things they "lost" are actually basically baked in to the structure of the rules now.  They don't need to be T5 when so many old threats to them have had their teeth pulled.  They don't need extra bennies when fighting generic CSM because they already hit comparably to one of the most deadly close combat units in the game.  And since they hit on an unmodified 3+ and we have cheaper access to an attack boosting support character their loss of attacks isn't a big deal.  Want them to hit hard, drop them in with a DW Ancient and Belial and watch them hit harder than they ever did in the last edition (and keep on doing it turn after turn after turn).

 

The old DWK's weren't that great before in the context of their own edition.  A bunch of "unique" and quirky special rules that didn't help them get the job done.  Plasma and grav didn't care about our T5 and we still died in a stiff breeze of massed small arms fire because we were still one wound.  In this edition?  T4 with 2W and 2+/3++ is more than enough to get you by due to how the very structure of the game works.

 

There is more at work here than just us losing special rules, the fundamental game structure and assumptions have changed and with it, the kinds of things that constitute good and bad.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Jinx what one of those crap rules of V7, so happy it's gone. 

 

Don't forger you can shoot after advance with assault weapon.

 

So know Black knight can move+Advance+ shoot 2 plasma shot at 4+ + getting a 5 Invu save. 

 

Did anyone understood the rules for flyers ? 

 

As i understand it : Nephilim can shoot at CT3+ on non-flying unit (CT3 +1 for non flying unit -1 for moving and shooting with heavy weapon), CT4+ one Flying unit like jetpack squad and CT5+ on other flyers ? (-1 for shooting a flyer, -1 for moving and shooting with heayv weapon) ??

[Chaplain Lucifer]

 

 

 

Dark Angels begged roboute to keep 1st and 2nd company. In every other respect they are becoming ultramarines

 

Wait... what?!

 

That was an oversimplification.

DA didn't beg, they petitioned which sounds a bit better than begging.

And we still have unique enough stuff that makes us are no more Ultramarines than before.

 

In which part of new fluff is this?

 

 

 

Yeah, where is it?

 

So now every chapter, even 1st founding one, needs a seal of approval from RG?

 

 

It's in one of the leaked pages:

 

"Eager not to draw attention, the Dark Angels follow the guidelines of the Codex Astartes, and yet they have petitioned to maintain their two unique fighting companies – the highly mobile 2nd Company (known as the Ravenwing) and the terminator armoured squads of the 1st Company (known as the Deathwing). Given the desperate circumstances of the torn and benighted galaxy, as well as the aforementioned companies’ service records of excellence, the returned Primarch Roboute Guilliman granted such rights even as the Dark Angels and their successor Chapters began reorganizing themselves to fit the dictates of the Ultima Founding"

 

So yes, RG is doing what he always did.. micro-managing everything, which comes as no surprise because he is the only Primarch around.

[dtse]

Hey guys. We have leaked every single page from all indexes on our YouTube. This includes dark angels. Heck it out.

 

YouTube.com/canhammer

[dtse]

Hey guys. A few summary statements

 

 

No more chapter tactics. We have deathwing immune to morale checks, and ravenwing are only bikers with jink.

 

Jink is now a 5+ invuln when you Advance. No effect on your shooting

 

Plasma talons rock now. No gets hot. Strong weapons.

 

Nartheciums now resurrect dead guys but can fail (4+)

 

Sammael is a thing.

 

Azrael is HQ now

 

Battle company morphs into a brigade detachment now. No free stuff. Shelve half your drop pods. Rhino rush is back.

 

Dark talon is the bomb.

 

Will be playing some games over next two weeks using my new "lions blade" and ravenwing lists.

[Master Avoghai]

Don't forget 2 things when reading those rules :

 

- we may "lose" some things but it's just because we can't apply those bonus in v8 : how would you apply intractable or the free teleport homer of the RW bikes? So it's not necessarly a loss...

- look all the index... You'll see that every body has a feeling of loosing some abilities... So we are not becoming weaker...

 

It's a new game, lose your old reflexes. We have to re-learn how to play.

[cypherthefallenangel]

After going over the leaked stuff and sleeping on it. I must say I'm more than a little disappointed. Both DW and RW lost everything that made them good and gained almost nothing. We lost all our relics and half our psychic powers with what we have left sucks balls. This edition is starting to look like 3rd ed with all the book keeping of 2nd.