HH to remain using 7th ed rules

[rendingon1+]

To no one in particular either but I always enjoy stories how people who play 40k for years still need to consult the rulebook on every occasion.

[SkimaskMohawk]

He doesn't mean literally cannot be played, but figuratively "these units are so bad that playing them puts you at an extreme disadvantage". Destroyers are a standout, headhunters are outclassed by seekers completely, Night Raptors are very points heavy after the AM buff, Domitars are dumb expensive for no reason, techmarines are basically only there to provide wargear options for a Forgelord, recon marines are way overcosted and have no role, the list goes on.

[ronin_cse]

To no one in particular either but I always enjoy stories how people who play 40k for years still need to consult the rulebook on every occasion.

 

Well if you are able to remember every special rule for each one of your's and your opponent's models AND remember every single chart for things like vehicle damage and catastrophic failure and then remember every single stat line for every model and weapon on the table for every single game you ever play then that's great for you.

 

I have a very good memory and in my gaming group I tend to look up stuff far less often than others. I'd say over half of the people in my group have been playing 40k since at least 3rd edition. I can not recall a single game that I have played in or watched in the last couple years that a significant amount of the total game time (so like at least 10%) was spent looking things up in one of the many rule books we are required to haul around, this goes for 40k and 30k.

 

Sure maybe you only need to look up a few things over the course of a game, but those little checks tend to add up fast.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

A lot of the problems being listed have to do with the army lists and not the core rules

[Baluc]

To no one in particular but rather to all the people complaining about 'useless' and / or 'unplayable' units or gross issues with how 30k works:

 

Why not just play a different game if it's that bad ? No one's forcing you to play 30k.

I explained why. And, you have a point I haven't played since Adepticon because when all the other aspects of the game aren't on (fluff, story, enthusiasm) the game is a chore.

 

I'm playing 8th but further shrinking small community doesn't seem great for anyone.

[Plaguecaster]

I think I may stop Heresy as trying to remember two different sets of rules with 8th and Heresy 7th will be annoying plus too invested in 40k so would've preferred one set of rules for both but that's just me

[Shinn]

You hit the bull's-eye for why im stopping HH. 

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm surprised how divided the community seems to be over the FW decision to keep to the 7th rules, though I suppose I really shouldn't be surprised given how much of a divide there is between people enthusiastic for 8th and those who are not. 

 

As someone who was heavily invested in fantasy before AoS, being invested across multiple games doesn't really bother me. Perfectly content with playing 8th edition 40k and 7th edition HH. That's just me though, I could see how multiple rulesets might not make some people enthusiastic.

[Luna707]

Does anyone have an indication as to how far the Horus Heresy will deviate from the current 7th edition? I've read the PowerPoint slide but it doesn't specify how much they are adding except that current HH armies will still be compatible. Did anyone get a chance to talk to the FW people about this

[Slips]

Heres me supremely disappointed in the change not happening sooner. The chance to have a clean slate restart with a whole new edition that isnt a lumbering beast of rules-upon-rules-upon-rules with some counter-intuitive game mechanics (My lascannon can 1shot my dreadnought but not the castellax even though theyre made from the same stuff! Oh! My Assault Marines just dropped in from high-altitude staring at their prey! Guess they'll just sit there and get shot by them a while!) and complexity-for-the-sake-of-it.

 

The proof will be in the playing of 8th but so far it has done EVERYTHING from a rules standpoint to deliver the game I feel 30/40k should be.

 

An imperfect comparison would be the sprawling, lumbering hydra that is Pathfinder to 5th Ed D&D.

 

I'm mainly just bummed out that Alan passed :\

[Phatsquirre1]

Yeah, one of the reasons I'm excited as I am is because I have 7th ed HH to hold on to for a while, and can dip my toe back into 40k with 8th and get a general feel of the game and its attendant fluff before committing to it with any serious investment, while still having the rules of my main game supported in case 8th edition turns out to be . On the flip side, if 8th blows me away and makes 7th ed dated, then I can use the rules FW has published in their Indices to represent my expensive resin-crack on the board. Sure, I miss out on the legion rules, but since I play with a pretty casual group of gamers, I'm sure house-ruling and interim rules would be more than fine to tide us over.

Furthermore, while I'm sure HH will go into 8th at some point or another, *if* there are any issues with 8th at launch in terms of balance and the meta, I'd rather avoid them and get a more polished ruleset from FW later than at launch. Like AoS, if I have to get into it, I would much rather do so post-General's Handbook than pre-Handbook.

[Marshal Rohr]

I would not assume '7th Edition' will be a carbon copy of 'Rules for Battles in the Age of Darkness'.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I would not assume '7th Edition' will be a carbon copy of 'Rules for Battles in the Age of Darkness'.

 

I dont believe it will be either. 

I think they'll take what works and improve what doesnt.

 

I have enough faith in FW to believe that

[Robzilla]

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that it isn't shifting to 8th too.

 

First of all, in terms of trimming the fat, the streamlined ruleset looks a lot nicer... To echo a previous poster, I've been playing a lot of AOL lately, and there is a surprising amount of nuance, even if the game core is simple, and the play time is a lot faster. Much easier to interact with the rules via the app etc (which has been promised for 40k).

Compounding that, there seems to be a lot of positive changes to 8th that would fold over into the heresy (the ap system, charges from vehicles, psychers interacting more, templates eating units etc). I genuinely believe mass infantry would have become popular again, and for that iconic feel to the heresy... Well it was just something I was hoping for.

 

Plus as people have mentioned, it is only serving to cause a divide between the 30k and 40k players in the community, by not allowing crossover anymore.

 

Now, to be positive, I do believe this decision wasn't half baked at FW. I do believe in light of events (the tragic passing of Mr Bligh) and the way FW supposedly playtest their heresy lists, I totally understand that the conversion to 8th was not the path of least resistance.

 

Personally id have preferred a concrete announcement to switch to 8th, even if it was accompanied with the caveat "in about a year". Right now, it feels like a bit or a placeholder, but we are also left wondering how many more books are due out before the conversion. Plus if it turns out 8th is the holy grail of ruleset, then we will just feel a little sour grapes until it does get swapped over to us.

 

Of course this could be FW just sitting on the fence until they have decided how awesome/awful 8th edition is... Much easier to change to, than change back from.

 

What does it mean for me? Little. Will still play infrequently (not as much as I'd like) and still fully intend to keep up with the hobby side of things (true scale projects ahoy!) but still quite disappointed.

[Galron]

Very disappointed by this crappy news. Keeping HH in 7th is a pathetically bad plan. It means my three primary armies are useless for the foreseeable future. Really sucks since I have around 12k points worth if I had to guess of HH armies. Converting them to loyalist and chaos army forces them to loose much of their flavor, not to mention having to redo unit markings and so forth. Highly disappointed FW, way to screw over your fan base

[Brofist]

Booyah! Called this one like some others in the thread. I'm really excited that we are officially branched from 40k.

 

There are some cool parts to 8th edition, but I'd rather FW cherry pick what they feel is fitting for the Heresy and give us a tailored 7.5 edition. Man I'm excited.

[Guardbuddy]

Welp, hate to reiterate myself from the other thread but as you guys said, the 30k/40k divide will deepen now.  For the people around me, it will effectively kill off HH.  There just aren't enough of us around here and the majority of people play regular 40k.  I am fine playing crossovers because it gives at least the chance to play with my army.  Now, I think I am straight out of luck.  I mean I guess I can use my Iron Warriors as standard traitors but so many of the things I have just won't work anymore.  No more quad mortars, medusas, Xiphons, deredeo dreads, and so on.  This really bums me out.  

[Sonoftherubric21]

Aaaaaaaactually don't quite count on that;

the 40k Forgeworld books are expanding options from 30k into 40k armies.

There is the Leviathan, and Id imagine mechanicum, mortar batteries, medusas and deredeos will make the transition as well given time, I think they may come out at initial release if we get lucky.

[Huggtand]

I think that in the long run it will be a bad thing for th 30k hobby if FW do not shift to 8th sooner rather than later.

 

Any hobby depends on getting new people to start, and by having two rule set you stop an easy flow of new people from the big 40k pool. It´s not a big hurdle to test 30k if you allready know the rules but if the rules are different this is not only be a hurdle but will also widen the gap between the two comunities and create a more we against them feeling.

 

For those who think the best thing is to stay in 7th, do you only se what is best for you or what is best for the 30k hobby at large?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

For those who think the best thing is to stay in 7th, do you only se what is best for you or what is best for the 30k hobby at large?

 

I personally think I see what is best for the entire hobby. I've no doubt  that rules will be created for using FW stuff in the Age of Guilliman, as the Chaos Leviathan already shows.

 

Nobody batted an eye when FW created their own army lists, rather than additional units to already existing 40k armies.

Nobody batted an eye when FW created their own missions, rather than use the already provided 40k missions.

 

Now people are upset that FW would rather work on their own rules, rules that would fit to the armies and missions they created, rather than go with the untested and questioable release of 8th edition? 

[RandomMarine]

I'd be quite surprised if every model that is 30k based isn't in the new indexes. It seems to me to be a perfect way to playtest the units before HH shifts to 8th and gives them time to get AOD 8th rules right

[Kastor Krieg]

Heresy train has found its brakes. It's the 7ed log on the tracks.

[Noserenda]

Yeah this just killed off my heresy plans for the forseeable, now the full 8th ed has leaked its a much better ruleset assuming the codexes dont go full Ward.

 

Not being able to play 40k armies anymore sucks and even if Fw fix psychics and vehicles it sucks to have to buy a stopgap rule book and angelus either delayed or with stopgap rules too...

 

Baah :( i know fw just suffered a huge blow and theres a lot of work to convert but zombie 7th ed is not the way forward.

[Perry]

Time for a community HH 8th ed project.

 

It'll be a big job but I'm sure there will be plenty of talented rules designers willing to give it ago.

[Elzender]

Not being able to play 40k armies anymore sucks and even if Fw fix psychics and vehicles it sucks to have to buy a stopgap rule book and angelus either delayed or with stopgap rules too...

 

Well, to be fair I don't think Angelus has been delayed by this particular decision, rather because of FW having to adapt everything 40k to 8th edition and also because of Alan sadly passing away. The legions featured in Angelus already had some rules for 7th edition, so any draft they had for Angelus was probably based on that edition too.

 

Also, if FW decided to directly transition to 8th, they would probably have to either delay Angelus to first update all the currently available factions, missions and rules to 8th, or release Angelus for 8th and render it useless until all the other published material is updated.

 

Let me say that I perfectly understand your opinion, and I actually looked forward to HH in 8th edition, but I want to believe FW has a plan for this and it will end up being good for everybody.