8th Edition & BA

[Valerian]

I wonder if we will also lose relics. Been thinking about the fury of Baal lately.

 

I expect the Relic list that your generic Characters can select won't be available at launch, but will come when the eventual Codex is released.  So, they won't be in the consolidated Adeptus Astartes book that will have the data slates for all Space Marines day 1.  You'll have to wait a while to get access to those types of Blood Angels relics (i.e. Fury of Baal, Valor's Edge, The Crown Angelic, etc.), and those will be one of several things that will encourage you to buy the new codex when it eventually gets published.

 

 

If it's anything like the AoS books, battleforged armies will get a certain amount of relics according to the army comp. It might be something like 1 relic per 3 command points granted by army comp, or summat. 

Does AoS have units that come with relics, like Dante? What happens to them?

 

 

The Hero characters that have unique Relic-type weapons get them described on their war scroll, like everything else.  Expect nothing less for all unique special characters in 8e, so you should definitely expect Tycho will have his Blood Song, Astorath his Executioner's Axe, and Dante will have his Axe Mortalis from launch.

 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

 

6) the avatar should be brutal. Wait til you see Dante.

 

More than Dante i'm actually looking forward to seeing the Santuinors rules! Imagine him actually becoming a beast like the Avatar for once! :o

Not that i want to comment on this but the bew character rules make the sanguinor playable. No squad joining is no longer a thing!

*runs off to kitbash a sanguinor*

[Indefragable]

I wonder if we'll have +1S on the Charge still.

 

For some reason I've been thinking we'll get Re-Roll all To Wound in close combat as a Faction

 

 

...which would include pistols in 1" AND in melee + cqc attacks....That could be brew-tal.

[Panzer]

 

 

Did they already tell us how mortal wounds work? Do they remove invulnerable saves? In previous editions the thing about invulns was that they can't be removed, at worst you had to reroll the successful ones.

 

From what I'm hearing, the invulnerable save will stack with the armour save modifiers. It's no longer a separate save.  Mortal wounds disallow the save. 

 

So it could work like this:

 

If you have a 3+ armour save and were hit with an AP -2 weapon, you would save on a 5+. If you have an invuln bonus of 1, that means you'd save on a 4+. Then, a mortal wound makes it so that you don't get a save. 

 

I think you are confusing inv saves with cover saves.

GW said that cover saves will become the armor modifiers.  In the Rubric Marines Datasheet, inv saves are not described as modifiers, but as a 5+.

 

Yeah so far we haven't heard anything specific about invul saves and everything seems to point towards the direction it working the same way it does currently. The thing that modifies armor positively is Cover. ;)

[Jolemai]

I'm pretty happy that I planned to focus on Vanguard Vets/Command Squads with Power Sword + Storm Shield. Shredding all the armor while (probably) staying on a fix 3+ save sounds sweet :D

Mind the language please, acronyms are swear filter dodges and thus against the B&C rules.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jolemai

[Panzer]

I think your swear filter needs to get updated then. I know some acronyms that are just as harmless that get automatically translated into :cuss: :P

[Charlo]

Points and Power Levels today folks:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

 

Couple of key points:

 

Multi Meltas cost 27points and Grav Pistols are 7.

 

What does this mean?

 

Well the MM is more expensive now because every unit can move + fire as well as split fire and it's ability to deal heavy damage to any multi-wound unit in the game.

 

Either Grav is weakened/ made more niche (good) or GW finally realized that special pistols were over-costed and are being made cheaper as a result. Hooray for our special pistols!

[Valerian]

And I'd add to that my theory that Pistols will no longer add +1 in close combat.  They get to shoot in the Shooting phase, instead.

 

V

[Charlo]

Hey I'll gladly give up a swing of a chain/power sword in favor of MELTING SOMEONES FACE OFF IN COMBAT.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I like today's announcement very much, especially the last bit about not putting points on datasheets so they can revisit/errata them appropriately.  Good.

[Phiasco]

It still makes me curious about how hammers and fists will work. Will their cost come literally in points? Or will they have some 'unwieldy' style rule where they take away the 'gets to go first if you charged' benefit?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I mean if we are getting hand flamers doing d6 auto hits in combat, are you really worried about a powerfist striking last?

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I mean if we are getting hand flamers doing d6 auto hits in combat, are you really worried about a powerfist striking last?

 

Combat has to survive a long time in order to use pistols as I understand it.

 

Round 1: Assuming you get the charge, you strike first

Round 2: Assuming opponent doesn't automatically break away, this is the crucial point - both you and your opponent have to survive round 2

Round 3: In your shooting phase, you shoot whom you are in combat with pistols

 

 

At least this is how I understood it to happen. 

[vahouth]

And I'd add to that my theory that Pistols will no longer add +1 in close combat.  They get to shoot in the Shooting phase, instead.

 

V

I'm not so sure about that. They'll rarely have the chance to shoot.

I have a theory that the more dangerous the pistol, the more likely the opponent will chose to disengage on his turn.

[Valerian]

It still makes me curious about how hammers and fists will work. Will their cost come literally in points? Or will they have some 'unwieldy' style rule where they take away the 'gets to go first if you charged' benefit?

 

They'll have some sort of downside, other than just expense in points, because the 40k FB team said they would.  What that is remains to be seen.  A guess would be no +1 to attacks for those guys on the turn you charge (if that rule even continues to exist in 8th).  Hopefully it's not an "always goes last" mechanic, as that would be annoying to track, and it would be nice to get those bigger hits going first this edition after so long without.

 

I mean if we are getting hand flamers doing d6 auto hits in combat, are you really worried about a powerfist striking last?

 

Well, yes.  Getting that Powerfist to strike upon assault means a couple more dudes dead at the beginning of the Fight that can't attack you back.  You won't get to take advantage of that auto-hitting Hand Flamer until your next Shooting phase, which is after your opponent has made his close combat attacks back at you.  So, it does matter.  Just consider the Hand Flamer attacks as a cool bonus.

 

 

And I'd add to that my theory that Pistols will no longer add +1 in close combat.  They get to shoot in the Shooting phase, instead.

 

V

I'm not so sure about that. They'll rarely have the chance to shoot.

 

 

As long as you have an opponent in range (typically 12", but shorter for some weapons), you'll get to fire that Pistol every single Shooting phase of the game, regardless of whether you're locked in close combat.  That's actually pretty good, and you ought to be able to get 3 or 4 shots in at least, if your model survives long enough.  They'll certainly be able to shoot more than in previous editions.  Additionally, it makes sense in the narrative/immersion that Pistols shoot when everybody else in your army shoots.  It doesn't make much sense that carrying a Bolt Pistol equals more Power Weapon swings, or carrying a Plasma Pistol equals more Chainsword swings.

 

We'll see though.  We don't have any leaks or rumors on this, just my hypothesis.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

...It doesn't make much sense that .....

 

 

Sense called.  He asked to be left out of any discussion regarding 40k.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Rocmistro

[Arkangilos]

I wonder if we'll have +1S on the Charge still.

 

For some reason I've been thinking we'll get Re-Roll all To Wound in close combat as a Faction

 

 

...which would include pistols in 1" AND in melee + cqc attacks....That could be brew-tal.

With the new S/T rules, will +1 even help?

[RedemptionNL]

Against T4 you'll wound on a 3+ instead of a 4+. And if you combine it with a power axe, you'll wound T3 on a 2+ instead of a 3+ and T5 on a 3+ instead of a 4+.

 

Of course, our Chapter Tactic could also just be that we get +1 on the To-Wound roll in the first round of combat, who knows?

[Quixus]

Against T4 you'll wound on a 3+ instead of a 4+. And if you combine it with a power axe, you'll wound T3 on a 2+ instead of a 3+ and T5 on a 3+ instead of a 4+.

 

Of course, our Chapter Tactic could also just be that we get +1 on the To-Wound roll in the first round of combat, who knows?

In HH we get that for the entire combat.

[Charlo]

What in really wondering is if shooting rapid-fire or heavy weapons will stop you from charging.

 

More than likely not (or why have "assault" weapons?) but could be.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Charlo

[Panzer]

I hope it does prevent you from charging or at least gives you the option to not Rapid Fire and charge. I can see soldiers doing some quick shots with their rifles while charging but that of course wouldn't be as accurate as staying still and taking aim (twice shots at half range).

 

Heavy weapons shouldn't be allowed to shoot&charge at all tho imo. Imagine Guardsmen heavy weapon teams shooting at the enemy while rolling their heavy weapons towards them...

[Charlo]

To be honest due to how heavy weapon teams work I can see them not being able to move and shoot. But that could be too restrictive.

[Quixus]

I hope it does prevent you from charging or at least gives you the option to not Rapid Fire and charge. I can see soldiers doing some quick shots with their rifles while charging but that of course wouldn't be as accurate as staying still and taking aim (twice shots at half range).

 

Heavy weapons shouldn't be allowed to shoot&charge at all tho imo. Imagine Guardsmen heavy weapon teams shooting at the enemy while rolling their heavy weapons towards them...

Come on every crew served lascannon needs a bayonet.

 

Seriously though, I agree though that such weapons should not be used before a charge. However, I can see a space marine shooting a lascannon, then running filthy xenos over and stomping on them. IMHO there should be several types of "heavy weapons" or super human models should get rules that allow them to charge using those weapons with a penalty.

[Xenith]

Most armies already have fluff ways of being super mobile with heavy weapons, be it Tau or Eldar, grav platforms/drones, nid bio weapons, ork assault like heavy weapons, necron immortal shells, marine power armour.

 

It doesn't take much more to say the manpower of a guard unit allows mobility, or that models which fired a heavy weapon can never claim the +1 attack for charging, etc.

 

I've just realised, tactical-type marines in general all come with bolter and bolt pistol as standard. Since pistols can now be fired in combat, this effectively means that all tactical marines get a bonus attack in combat, no?

[Panzer]

 

I've just realised, tactical-type marines in general all come with bolter and bolt pistol as standard. Since pistols can now be fired in combat, this effectively means that all tactical marines get a bonus attack in combat, no?

It basically means apart from special weapon choices and Jump Packs they are as good as Assault Marines unless Chainsword will finally be more than a fist again (GW, please!) :D