hopes, dreams, and fears for sisters in 8th

[BitsHammer]

Command Points are basically super limited and shouldn't be tied into an army's core mechanic. An army specific list of uses (like a round of twin linking) sure, but not something like AoF. That'd be like tying Chapter Tactics to Command Points: utterly pointless (sic).

[Rizara]

The new rules look to be a great boon on every army.   I can see many nice perks to our existing way of play, but my only hope is that we get new models sooner than later.   From what the rumor mills are saying, it looks like we got bumped back another two years, which is disheartening.   If true, and the golden boys in blue get an update again and even worse still, the ad mech/skitari get an update before we get new plastics, I feel I wont be spending a dime on 40k, or even playing the game till they do.   Since plastic sisters have been on the rumor mill longer than anyone remember, its disheartening that they wont go ahead and get rid of the oldest miniature line on there website and hurry up and get all the armies with updated figures before they go and update other armies.  I understand that the space marines always get updated every other year, but come on, new rules and all will do them a world of good, without needing new models, codex, or any sort of attention.  

 

I simply hold out on the hope that if we do get even more delay on a new line of models, its because they are giving us some new units to add much needed diversity to our army, otherwise, I simply can't justify spending nearly double what any other armies basic troops cost to get just 10 sisters.   

 

On the upside, I really can't wait to bring the heavy flamers of our holy fathers retribution to the heretics, mutants, and even xenos scum, because the lack of templates looks rather great, and the fact that our bolter fire may even piece the hearts of knights, greater demons, and large tanks, I really can't wait to see what force I could field of the adeptus soriatis (if only we had more affordable models).

[Ficinus]

I hope that command points aren't tied to the Acts of Faith. I'd rather have Acts of Faith buffing my unit and the option to use command points to buff them too rather than having the army special rule being restricted based on a mechanic everyone else gets to use in addition to their army special rules.

 

That said, it probably will be tied to command points.

[Eddie Orlock]

... That'd be like tying Chapter Tactics to Command Points: utterly pointless (sic).

One of the mechanisms in eighth edition to help make things much more tactical and help reflect not only your army selection but your army's play style is definitely command points ... now those command points can be used for some things that are in the core rule books, so one of them is you can re-roll a die, one of them is that in the combat phase you can interrupt the chargers going first thing ... these generic command point things are going to be in the books, but as we do codexes in the future ... another thing they're {codexes} going to have is a whole suite of things you can spend your command points on in there that will be different thematically by the way that your army fights, so if you're a space marine for example it'll be super tactical, if you're orks it'll be super choppy ... that not only reflect the big armies such as space marines for example, but also reflect the different flavours of space marine armies ...

Recall that for the 'get you by' lists in the third ed rule book there was no account of faith at all. That only showed up in a chapter approved article. There is the precedent that we won't have bespoke faith rules at the start of the edition.

 

Now, as I interpolate this transcribed passage command points are going to be one of the ways they'll implement things like 'chapter tactics' and 'the power of the waaugh', so it doesn't seem out of line that this is how they'll implement 'the faith of the sisterhood'.

 

On a more positive note, they do mention that it will likely get further refined to reflect further force specialisations. Raven Guards may have slightly different tricks than Silver Skulls. This gives me some hope that we might see the prayers of missions descended from Ebon Chalice will differ a bit from those of the Argent Shroud. Or, at least we might get the choice between convents sanctorum and prioris.

 

From a mechanical stand point, having a limited number of points to be spent on special effects is very similar to the implementation we had in the witch hunters years when each faithful unit awarded us a point to spend on a special effect.

[Atrus]

Depends on how special our special effects turn out to be. Blockbuster Hollywood which marines will probably get, or primary school project?

 

Stepping away from salty pessimism, I'm wondering if hit and run would make an appearance for the seraphim. They've had it since the witch hunter codec when I first started. I imagine if it did, it would function as the normal leave of combat that everyone can do, but the unit still being able to shoot and assault as normal.

[Voldrak]

 

20 sisters are going to be fine dealing with what is coming their way in this next edition.

 

The question at hand I think is whether you'd be better off with four lots of five.

Same number of sisters, less losses from moral - at least what little we know of the system so far.

 

 

(though as an aside you were also pretty generous with that comparison. 20 sisters are hard to cram into area cover... perhaps easier now there are no templates so no reason to split them up. Out of cover it's half the squad dead to shooting and 6-7 to moral - three survivors, assuming the marines don't step it up with a chapter tactic)

 

 

 

That would not have been a question in this edition. 5 sisters would have been better as it means the most a unit shooting at you can kill is 5.

 

This edition however allows for split fire. We do not have all the details on this, but it certainly means that you won't be wasting as many shots on overkill as before. Four squads of 5 sisters could easilly take as much damage as one squad of 20 with proper split fire.

 

 

MSU will allow more special weapons and board control, but you will lose those special weapons much faster when they get shot.

 

Large squads will provide staying power and more use from those special weapons. We also do not know yet whether getting a squad large means additional bonus.

 

What if a standard 5 BSS squad still had their prefered enemy AoF and for every 5 additional models, they could use their AoF one more time?

 

AoS rewards players for playing larger squads. I see no reason why they would not do the same in 40k.

[Commander Dawnstar]

Wouldn't you have expected any rules like that to have been included on the dataslate we saw yesterday given that it allowed players to field units of 20 Rubric Marines?

 

(The obvious counterpoint to that is that not every unit needs to have such rules, but still...)

[WAR]

Space Marines are 13 points and Multimeltas are 27 points.....and discuss

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

[Commander Dawnstar]

Well ... that might be a point in favour of the blob squad then.

 

If the cost of Melta goes up and the cost of Battle Sisters goes down (as you'd certainly expect if Marines are cheaper) then it might well turn out more cost effective to have at least a few large units rather than sticking solely to MSU with a high concentration of specialist tools. A unit of Retributors with Multimeltas might have just become 70-ish points more expensive, for example, while a blob squad might end up relatively cost-neutral. This leaves me wondering if the Imperial factions are going to pay different costs for the same equipment though, as the points cost that Space Marines pay for a Multimelta certainly looks like it was chosen to produce a nice round number - 40.

 

On a more personal note, I'm not happy to see the points cost of a Space Marine go down. I was hoping that GW would introduce more granularity between the costs of basic infantry rather than seemingly compressing them down even further.

[robofish7591]

Since marines are getting cheaper, it really makes me wonder how much basic sisters are going to cost. I'm wondering if I need to get some more bolter sisters to make up for the decreased costs

Also from the wording of that article, it seems that multi meltas are one of the more expensive weapons available. I wonder how its been buffed to make up for nearly tripling its cost! Perhaps, multiple shots? Higher strength so it wounds more reliably? Multimeltas could be our new go to heavy.

[BitsHammer]

 

... That'd be like tying Chapter Tactics to Command Points: utterly pointless (sic).

One of the mechanisms in eighth edition to help make things much more tactical and help reflect not only your army selection but your army's play style is definitely command points ... now those command points can be used for some things that are in the core rule books, so one of them is you can re-roll a die, one of them is that in the combat phase you can interrupt the chargers going first thing ... these generic command point things are going to be in the books, but as we do codexes in the future ... another thing they're {codexes} going to have is a whole suite of things you can spend your command points on in there that will be different thematically by the way that your army fights, so if you're a space marine for example it'll be super tactical, if you're orks it'll be super choppy ... that not only reflect the big armies such as space marines for example, but also reflect the different flavours of space marine armies ...

Recall that for the 'get you by' lists in the third ed rule book there was no account of faith at all. That only showed up in a chapter approved article. There is the precedent that we won't have bespoke faith rules at the start of the edition.

 

Now, as I interpolate this transcribed passage command points are going to be one of the ways they'll implement things like 'chapter tactics' and 'the power of the waaugh', so it doesn't seem out of line that this is how they'll implement 'the faith of the sisterhood'.

 

On a more positive note, they do mention that it will likely get further refined to reflect further force specialisations. Raven Guards may have slightly different tricks than Silver Skulls. This gives me some hope that we might see the prayers of missions descended from Ebon Chalice will differ a bit from those of the Argent Shroud. Or, at least we might get the choice between convents sanctorum and prioris.

 

From a mechanical stand point, having a limited number of points to be spent on special effects is very similar to the implementation we had in the witch hunters years when each faithful unit awarded us a point to spend on a special effect.

If I have to pay Command Points to use Acts of Faith to gain rules other armies get for free all the ime, I am shanking someone wih a melta. Why a melta? It's the bluntest weapon in our army.

[Noeh]

 

 

... That'd be like tying Chapter Tactics to Command Points: utterly pointless (sic).

One of the mechanisms in eighth edition to help make things much more tactical and help reflect not only your army selection but your army's play style is definitely command points ... now those command points can be used for some things that are in the core rule books, so one of them is you can re-roll a die, one of them is that in the combat phase you can interrupt the chargers going first thing ... these generic command point things are going to be in the books, but as we do codexes in the future ... another thing they're {codexes} going to have is a whole suite of things you can spend your command points on in there that will be different thematically by the way that your army fights, so if you're a space marine for example it'll be super tactical, if you're orks it'll be super choppy ... that not only reflect the big armies such as space marines for example, but also reflect the different flavours of space marine armies ...

Recall that for the 'get you by' lists in the third ed rule book there was no account of faith at all. That only showed up in a chapter approved article. There is the precedent that we won't have bespoke faith rules at the start of the edition.

 

Now, as I interpolate this transcribed passage command points are going to be one of the ways they'll implement things like 'chapter tactics' and 'the power of the waaugh', so it doesn't seem out of line that this is how they'll implement 'the faith of the sisterhood'.

 

On a more positive note, they do mention that it will likely get further refined to reflect further force specialisations. Raven Guards may have slightly different tricks than Silver Skulls. This gives me some hope that we might see the prayers of missions descended from Ebon Chalice will differ a bit from those of the Argent Shroud. Or, at least we might get the choice between convents sanctorum and prioris.

 

From a mechanical stand point, having a limited number of points to be spent on special effects is very similar to the implementation we had in the witch hunters years when each faithful unit awarded us a point to spend on a special effect.

If I have to pay Command Points to use Acts of Faith to gain rules other armies get for free all the ime, I am shanking someone wih a melta. Why a melta? It's the bluntest weapon in our army.

 

I raise you the fact that priests carry books. Shank them with fifty books..then strap them to a limbless penitent engine so they can relive their sins for eternity.

[taikishi]

Honestly, based on what we've seen of weapon profiles so far? I (at most) expect MM to be 2d6 or d6+x wounds and even then that's a stretch. If anything, my gut says they took a nerf.

[A.T.]

Early pricing suggests a move away from special weapon(s) and minimum meatshields if the special weapons have had a big price hike. More of a focus on the quality of the basic model.

 

Interesting that the multimelta is the high cost weapon though, rather than a lascannon, plasma cannon, or grav cannon. Hope that doesn't bike the sisters too hard in the ass.

[Eddie Orlock]

Honestly, based on what we've seen of weapon profiles so far?

Based on the number of things I've seen hark back to weird hybrids of 3rd and 2nd ed I expect it to be the Molly-Melta to be Strength 8, 24" range, d6 damage with the melta-esq reroll at half range, but to be heavy d3 because way back in the day it used to be a medium blast.

[Beams]

To be fair, I only have a single multimelta, and it's never been used. Hopefully, the new rules will make it worthwhile, instead of just getting more and more reg. Meltas.

 

 

I'm thinking a sister will either need a significant boost in power (Faith points returning and hopefully giving powerful AoF) or we need to be 9 points to justify the -1 in WS, S, T and lack of chapter tactics. Assuming of course that our WS stays a point below a space Marines.

[A.T.]

I'm thinking a sister will either need a significant boost in power (Faith points returning and hopefully giving powerful AoF) or we need to be 9 points to justify the -1 in WS, S, T and lack of chapter tactics. Assuming of course that our WS stays a point below a space Marines.

 

Statistically, between basic melee and shooting (assuming marine melee is S4 AP-), two marines are the equal of three sisters. Excluding ATSKNF, chapter tactics, faith, and the marines superior armoury and other benefits of the higher statline.

 

So 8-9 points would be a solid start.

[robofish7591]

Heavy d3 would be interesting, that could explain why it got more expensive. I think for the price I would want a flat two or three shots though, since I know I'll roll lots of 1's and 2's! But since they seem to be taking inspiration from older editions, making it equivalent to what a small blast would be in 8th makes some sense.

[BitsHammer]

 

From Facebook:

Q: So, now my big hope is for a faction spotlight on the Sororitas. :) Cmon Warhammer 40,000, show a little faith!

http://i.imgur.com/ae5KfIq.jpg

A: It's happening. Have faith, Brother Devon!

 

Note they said a Faction Focus for the Sisters, not the Imperium, was coming.

[Knight of the Raven]

I'll start piling up the salt-poisoning medicine.

[Noeh]

No no, it's fine. They still have time to fix it if it's bad..pffffahahaha! Who am I kidding, this is GW. It'll just be a copy paste of the original codex again with the excuse "Oh we thought it was fine just as it was! Did a major rule change happen or something?"

[Knight of the Raven]

"We never thought people would take two daemon princes!"

 

Oh god I love that one. And they never corrected it with an errata either.

[Noeh]

Two? The main guy that works at my flgs is making an army out of four of them...

[BitsHammer]

Two? The main guy that works at my flgs is making an army out of four of them...

One for each "god"?

 

The corruption of such players by their devotions to such "gods" is why my army worships a man:

[BitsHammer]

No no, it's fine. They still have time to fix it if it's bad..pffffahahaha! Who am I kidding, this is GW. It'll just be a copy paste of the original codex again with the excuse "Oh we thought it was fine just as it was! Did a major rule change happen or something?"

Can't really just Copy and Paste the codex directly. Mostly because of new statlines.

 

That and if we get 10 point multi-meltas Marines are going to lose their helmets.

 

According to what we've heard from Jervis Johnson on a Twitch stream all armies were worked on the same time to better tighten up the edition. Doesn't mean we're getting new toys, but it does mean this is probably the most dedicated focus given to Sisters since 2nd edition.