hopes, dreams, and fears for sisters in 8th

[taikishi]

Probably pretty hard when you consider what they're out of stock on ;)

Valorous, I'll reply to you later. I spent 30 minutes typing up a reply only to have it time out on me. It's almost 1am here, and I have work in the morning. I'll give you a TL;DR, though, then the full response when I have time:

 

TL;DR, you completely misunderstood my points -- especially comparing "my list" (which you have no clue what my list is) to "making the Sisters of Battle army functional enough to use its special rules". This is entirely about the latter, after all Imperial Fists (currently) can use their special rules more than once per turn without some type of unit tax. So can Tau and other armies, and I'd wager there's a very good chance they still will. Why are we limited to once per turn without some type of tax?

[A.T.]

I don't understand the comment that AOF do not scale. You get 1 standard (2+), plus 1 for Celestine (auto), and an additional plus 1 per Imigifyer (4+).  AOF scale with imigifyers, take more get more.

 

AoF depends somewhat on how the sisters are priced and balanced against other factions.

 

If the sisters are an even match against the others without any AoF at all then fair enough, buy in miracles with Celestine and Imagifiers like any other bonus/wargear and the whole thing makes sense.

 

If on the other hand the sisters are set weaker than other factions on the basis of using AoF to catch up then having to pay a surplus for that AoF is taking one step back for a 4+ chance of getting one step forwards.

 

 

They may work much better on the tabletop than early indications suggest. Time will tell.

[Atrus]

Guess the only thing to hope for now is to be an even match for all the other armies and not just something to be curb stomped by them.

 

I am disappointed that we still don't have a huge amount of customisation for canonness. Was really hoping for the dual wielding jump canonness * sigh* as it stands we can't even give a seraphim an inferno pistol. Just the standard old plasma pistol and Keller weapon (yes I know she can jump around with bolt pistol and plasma pistol but that's not as cool as twin plasma or inferno or mix)

 

So yeah, just hoping we can go toe to toe vs other armies.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I really don't understand what's going on with Power Levels. Repentia are 3 Power for three, while Death Cult Assassins are 1 Power for two ... and yet they're both 17 point models with no alternative equipment options.

[A.T.]

I really don't understand what's going on with Power Levels. Repentia are 3 Power for three, while Death Cult Assassins are 1 Power for two ... and yet they're both 17 point models with no alternative equipment options.

 

Seems best to ignore power levels entirely.

[Banjulhu]

I really don't understand what's going on with Power Levels. Repentia are 3 Power for three, while Death Cult Assassins are 1 Power for two ... and yet they're both 17 point models with no alternative equipment options.

It makes perfect sense if you consider that the Sororitas were only looked at half-arsedly during development of 8th ed.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I've just accidentally thrown together a 2,000 point list in 8th while calculating the value of my units and it clocked in at 180 points more expensive than the same in 7th. I don't think that's too bad at all when Celestine and the vehicles basically came in 300 points more costly.

[Beams]

Storm bolters look like they cost 2 PTs, so it's looking like they finally have a place now.

[Commander Dawnstar]

They cost four points. Don't ask me why we pay more for them than Marines or the Guard.

[Banjulhu]

The rest of the bloody Imperium only pays 2 points a model.

[taikishi]

Possible cost inflation because of Acts of Faith? If so, why do we only get to use them once a turn?

[Ficinus]

Reading through the Imperial Guard leaks, I was horrified to see that their foul witches still get to use templates!  I mean, it's a line template, but still.  I will have my flamer templates back and no heretic, witch, or daemon of the Immaterium can stop me!

[Servant of Dante]

AoFs are scalable, if you spend points and Elites slots.

 

They are not inherently scalable, in that the mechanic does not adjust itself automatically based on game size. You are forced to spend 2 resources on scaling it.

 

I think I'm fine spending points on Inagifiers. What bugs me more is how many Elites slots we'll need. We go from maybe 1 or 2 Elites choices in a list to needing more than 3 :P

 

And yeah why the crap would we pay more for a freaking storm bolter :D

[Banjulhu]

I'm not fine with how acts of faith work.

 

At 500 pts my army has paid a tax of Xpts for the Acts of Faith rule whilst at 1000pts my army would have spent 2Xpts to have access to the rule, but at either size of game I will still only get 1 Act of Faith on a 2+ roll.

If I'm paying twice for something I would like to benefit from it twice as much that's kind of how spending points in wargames works... unless you are a battle sister.

[Beams]

Dang

That's upsetting that we pay 4 for storm bolters. Is that 100% confirmed?

 

Huh. Still, dominions are 10 PTs, so for 1 pt more than a space marine you've got a sister firing twice as fast.

[A.T.]

Dang

That's upsetting that we pay 4 for storm bolters. Is that 100% confirmed?

 

Apparently the whole point of having prices and unit rules on different pages are for clean and easy updates based on feedback - so perhaps mentioning to GW that sisters pay twice the price for no benefit at all would result in a change.

 

 

edit - price page leaked, stormbolters are indeed 4 points for sisters.

 

However there are a few notable 0 pointers - repentia eviscerators, death cultist power blades, arco-flails, and stormshields (though with the cost of their sword Crusaders total out at 15 points)

[Beams]

They were prolly worried about dominions being able to take 5. At two points we'd be paying 60 PTs or 10-20 shots as compared to 45 for 5-10. At 4 we're paying 70 for double the shots, but half the wounds... Not as good, but still not bad.

[taikishi]

I'm not fine with how acts of faith work.

 

At 500 pts my army has paid a tax of Xpts for the Acts of Faith rule whilst at 1000pts my army would have spent 2Xpts to have access to the rule, but at either size of game I will still only get 1 Act of Faith on a 2+ roll.

 

If I'm paying twice for something I would like to benefit from it twice as much that's kind of how spending points in wargames works... unless you are a battle sister.

 

 

Moreso, Imperial Guard orders just work as long as you're within 6" of a character with the Voice of Command rule and those characters eat both HQ and Elites slots, PLUS they still have command squads -- which extend the range to 18".

 

@Valorous Heart:

 

I've tried, twice, to reply to you now and both times the post has been eaten or I've been timed out of the site. I'm a little irritated by that so it may be a while before I reply to you but I will because, son, you need to hear what I have to say. But I will say this: you need to go to the discussion forum and read. The rules are all there, leaks for armies are there, and it's abundantly clear in those leaks that you pay for every piece of wargear from bolters and frag grenades to lascannons to dreadnaught power fists. It just happens that some of these items cost 0, some don't.

[A.T.]

<salt>

There is a hit and run special rule in the game.

The seraphim do not have it.

</salt>

[Commander Dawnstar]

Yeah, but the only loss there is being able to charge as the Fly keyword means they can still shoot after using a Fall Back action.

[Servant of Dante]

<salt>

There is a hit and run special rule in the game.

The seraphim do not have it.

</salt>

 

Yeah, but the only loss there is being able to charge as the Fly keyword means they can still shoot after using a Fall Back action.

it's still annoying, but then I have a thing for Seraphim and close combat :P

[sedibear]

<salt>

There is a hit and run special rule in the game.

The seraphim do not have it.

</salt>

 

Seraphim don't fly??

 

Also 

 

No need to hit and run if the enemy dies before your movement phase (insert thinking black man here)

I also cannot wait to slice open a flier with Celestine. :D

[A.T.]

Seraphim don't fly??

They do, the <salt> was just the rule name - such a longstanding part of the seraphim :p

 

 

Having read a bit more of the rules i'm thinking what sisters could do with is the ability to trade command points for acts of faith - command points scale with the game size and the stratagem costs can be adjusted as required for balance.

[sedibear]

Hah i see.

 

Lots of hidden stuff in our sheets that needed a few readings to spot.

 

Like Crusaders having Acts of Faith, or Imagifiers letting our vehicles use Acts of Faith (Imagifiers specify that you can perform an Act of Faith with a unit that has the <ORDER> keyword, which our vehicles have).

 

On a 4+, shoot twice with an Exorcist, rerolling with a Canoness? Don't mind if I do.

[Banjulhu]

That is debatable sadly. The writing is not definitive enough and they could very well intend the imagnifier to only work on units with the act of faith rule and the matching order keyword.