Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) It’s only been a few hours, that we know of the upcoming Primaris Space Marines. And we still know very little about them. But this we do know … They are the work of Ten Thousand Years. They are not created as normal Space Marines from young boys, but in Breeding-Chambers. (We don't know that for sure now, but it's not that important) They still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs. They are better than common Space Marines. And … I think the Space Wolves will profit from this. Not because of the rules, not even really in terms of fluff, but more from a broader narrative perspective. I think the arrival of the Primaris sharpens the Concept of the Space Wolves … let me explain that … The Primaris Marines make – by the key facts of their very existence – all other Space Marines look old. And … I can think of no other Legion or Chapter that profits more from this, because “being old” is – in my humble opinion – an important Concept of the Vylka Fenrika, and that at least in three major ways … First the Space Wolves are and always have been anachronistic. They are the last undevided Legion (the Wolf Brothers might as well never have existed). They are the last Legion to defy the Codex Astartes. But more than that, they cling to a culture and a society that is actually nothing more than the Iron Ages. They look like Barbarians, they act like Barbarians and they are probably as far away from the standard imperial Culture as you can get and still be considered loyal. They are anarchonistic and as old as it gets even within the Imperium and have always been so. I always thought that the image of the Wolves descending onto the Tau shows this beautifully … http://lost.space-wolves.company/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/05/old-wolves-vs-young-tau.png … they really look like something from the past, even within 40k. Second – They value Age. The Backbone of the Army are called “Gray Hunters”, and thats because they have lived long enough. Longs Fangs and Wolf Scouts made it even longer and you can hardly see any Mini of them, that has not white hair. And the moste revered of all are the Wolf Priests, old men, who’s primary Attribute is “Wisdom”, something that only really old Astartes find. And I haven’t talked about Ulrik the Slayer or even Björn the Fellhanded. Space Wolves are depicted most often with beards, which is a item you hardly see on young men (except hipsters these days), and it’s no wonder, almost all of the other Chapters Minis are always clean shaved. Third the whole Concept of the Space Wolves refers to the Vikings … which are long dead and gone (except for the one and only Techno Viking of course). You just can’t put them into Space and not bring a notion of something old with it. You can’t think or work with the Concept of Vikings without romanticisation. Bringing up an Viking Legion leads to the inevitable connotation of something “old”. Sooo … that we have Primaris Marines now, that make our Space Wolves look old is – in my humble opinion – heartly welcome. It helps to focus on some of the most important the virtues of Space Wolves. And I already have to smile, when I think about an Pack of seasoned Gray Hunters snarling, when they first fight side by side with these test-tube-born Primaris Pups … Edited May 15, 2017 by Filius IronDrake28, Nuclear Fridge and Miru 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 no where does it state they are made from breeding chambers that I've seen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 i don't know if the the test tube thing is true, bit of an assumption from the community. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) no where does it state they are made from breeding chambers that I've seen. This Image looks a looooot like a breeding chamber … http://lost.space-wolves.company/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/05/GuillimanCawl-in-the-breeding-chamber.jpg … but you're totally right: We don't know that for sure right now. I just "naturally" assumend this from this image. I'll fix it in my initial Post. Edited May 15, 2017 by Filius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) i think they're stasis tanks. like, Belesarius Cawl has had these guys on ice for awhile. feeds into my "what if some of them are stabilized wolf brothers?" theory. :) Edited May 15, 2017 by Wispy Ragnarr 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Wispy, hehe. thats what Im totally going to call these guys in a wolf army. They're not space wolves, but they are the Wolf Brothers of the SPace wolves =D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Even if the Primaris Space Wolves (as it sounds like each Chapter will gain their own variant) are vat grown, I trust the Vlka to know how to beat the attitude out of any Aspirant, no matter their form. Blood Claw born or vat grown, the Vlka will go on, and incorporate new blood into the old as they always have, over time. I'm serious above; I love the idea of Primaris Space Wolves, and the cost of a Chainsword per PSM/PSW should be worth noting, as well. This is a rather interesting idea, and, as noted by the OP, and to which I agree, age is the best teacher of youth and exuberance, as over time, only the old and bold will survive within the Vlka, as it has always been, and so shall it always be. Power 6 compared to Power 5 (Power Level units scale) seems to be about right. Assuming 5 is equivalent to 100 points, 6 should be 120. Or, considering we know that a base Astartes, even a Vlka Grey Hunter without a CCW is 13, well, guesses aside, they are more expensive, and they have +1 W and a 6" range bonus on their Bolt Rifle. I'm pretty sure these are going to make very interesting new blood; yes, the Vlka are old, and very well steeped in ancient traditions, even older than the Dark Age of Technology. The nice part of this is that they are not mandatory, and they are a rather nice boost to a force on the table. What the Primaris Vlka Astartes are like, that, I want to see now. Filius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Ah … and … they call it "A New Breed of Hero" … you have to admid, that it sounds a bit, like they are breeding them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Ahhh … and … another point for the Breeding: It's an nearby explanation where Roboute got the Primaries Marines "Reinforcements" from so quickly for the "bloodied and besieged Chapters", as the Teaser Movie told us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 So the proud Space Wolves are fine with someone messing with their Geneseed and sticking it into non Fenrisians? The only way these will stand alongside my Wolves is after I have converted them into a unit of 'zerkers/proxy Wulfen. Jonny Wolf and Allwinter 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) As Vash said in the other thread, so far the "tactical" version is rather underwhelming. Unless they're really cheap, points wise, their 2 Wounds and Bolt Rifles don't really offer much. That squad is capped at five men, and has zero upgrade options. So far, regular Grey Hunters are looking far superior for flexibility and effectiveness.I'm surprised they aren't much better, frankly, to encourage us to go out and buy lots of them. If they'd have given them upgrade options for a couple Mk2 Cawl-pattern Plasma Rifles (30" range and no gets hot), and a variety of Pistols and Power Weapons for the Sergeant/Pack Leader, I'd be setting aside my next retirement check now. But as these are, there's no impetus to spend, other than the aesthetics of the larger models.With 2 Attacks each (3 for Sergeant), their Assault Squad version might be much more worthwhile, especially if they get some new equipment, too. We'll just have to wait and see what the rest of the squad, character, and vehicle types have to offer. So the proud Space Wolves are fine with someone messing with their Geneseed and sticking it into non Fenrisians?. Been playing Space Wolves for over 25 years, and I've got no problems with it. Edited May 15, 2017 by Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 So the proud Space Wolves are fine with someone messing with their Geneseed and sticking it into non Fenrisians? The only way these will stand alongside my Wolves is after I have converted them into a unit of 'zerkers/proxy Wulfen. Oh … at least I didn't say that. I just said that I like the fact, that they exist (and even only in other Chapters), because it makes the Wolves more of what the Wolves have always been. I would still say: 50:50 Chance for a warm welcome among the wolves, fluff wise. And regarding the Minis: The Diffrences to the regular Minis are so small … it just doesn't matter to me. I'll keep building Terminators and Skyclaws and Wolfpriests. Or better: I'll stick to the plan of building these … Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiltedMarine Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Tubes =/= breeding chamber, necessarily. Plenty of other options are equally likely- stasis pods, treatment vats, etc. Superhuman-sized glass tubes have been a part of the imagery of making an Astartes since RT. Lots of folks assume "vat-grown clones" thanks (I think) to the Star Wars prequels, but that's not the only explanation. I agree that this creates new narrative possibilities for the Vlka Fenryka, but I think you're stuck on the "old" idea to an extent beyond what GW will likely have in mind, or that many of the rest of us do. The anachronistic nature of the Vlka Fenryka needn't mean they eschew the newer brethren or the ability to make their own Primaris brothers- Vikings, though now a dead culture, were in their time highly adaptable and willing to use whatever tools or tactics gave them an edge. I don't personally see this as any different. They'll be anachronistic, but not because they're literally all 200 years old, but because they're carrying cultural attitudes and ideas that come out of a different age. Megalodon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I personally don't see the issue, as unless Cawl fully stabilized, without the loss of the Inner Wolf, the Canis Helix, well, they have to be at least enough Fenrisian to not reject said Canis Helix implant. Imbibing from the Cup that awakens all Space Wolves before they must go out, and earn their return through hard labor, well, I think it's writing on the wall that the Primaris Vlka will also be Vlka first and foremost. There's more information to be found; tubes might be for many reasons, it's the why and the fluff that will be most important. Megalodon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Tubes =/= breeding chamber, necessarily. Plenty of other options are equally likely- stasis pods, treatment vats, etc. Superhuman-sized glass tubes have been a part of the imagery of making an Astartes since RT. Lots of folks assume "vat-grown clones" thanks (I think) to the Star Wars prequels, but that's not the only explanation. I agree that this creates new narrative possibilities for the Vlka Fenryka, but I think you're stuck on the "old" idea to an extent beyond what GW will likely have in mind, or that many of the rest of us do. The anachronistic nature of the Vlka Fenryka needn't mean they eschew the newer brethren or the ability to make their own Primaris brothers- Vikings, though now a dead culture, were in their time highly adaptable and willing to use whatever tools or tactics gave them an edge. I don't personally see this as any different. They'll be anachronistic, but not because they're literally all 200 years old, but because they're carrying cultural attitudes and ideas that come out of a different age. Just so, that we don't understand us wrong: I currently do not know if and how GW will include the Primaris into the Space Wolves. I think both ways could be plausible. My point it more: No matter if and how they are included … they make the the existing Marines look old. The Space Wolves as well as most of the other Chapters, just like the introduction of the Centurions made the Terminators / Dreadnoughts look old, but this time also fluff wise, as GW really introduces them as something new in the fluff. Buuut … unlike most other Chapters, it's a good (or at least "okay") thing for the wolves, because they always had several notions of "old" – really no Matter, if a Primaris will ever set foot in the Fang or not. Or to put it differently: I'm happy to be on the wolf-side of 40k – no matter how the position themselves towards the Primaris. If I were a Mentors-Player/Fanboy by now I would be not so happy, because after all those Millenia of Improvement, Roboute comes along and has something better, than the Mentors ever came up with. Or to put it just another way: If the Wolves welcome the Primaris, I am happy, because I imagine it to be fun thinking of the "old Gray Hunters" snarling at the new Invetions of the Codex-Invention-Casper, and then, after a battle or two, having to admit, that they have the heart on the right spot (and can take a hellotta bullets in the chest). If the Wolves don't welcome the Primaris, I am also happy. The Minis and the (possible) fluff about them is not that cool, that I need to have them in my Army and my Stories. And the Wolves have a history of not caring for the Ideas of Roboute, how ever cool and new the may look. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarr Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now I do not know what I should I think about the new Astartes. Based on first information - simply they are not very in line with fluff. No drinking from Cup of Wulfen? No SW rituals. How such not very Wolfy SM would be part of such specific chapter? Maybe Space Wolves part of new SM are Wolf Brothers with stabilized gene seed and Leman knew it. Wolf Brother just disappeared and in times of the most need they will come.... Who knows? Stats are not very interesting or not for units such as Grey Hunters but for attack squads. In case of Space Wolves new wolves are Blood Claws. So will they all new SM Blood Claw? But I am Space Wolves newbie :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now I do not know what I should I think about the new Astartes. Based on first information - simply they are not very in line with fluff. No drinking from Cup of Wulfen? No SW rituals. How such not very Wolfy SM would be part of such specific chapter? Maybe Space Wolves part of new SM are Wolf Brothers with stabilized gene seed and Leman knew it. Wolf Brother just disappeared and in times of the most need they will come.... Who knows? Stats are not very interesting or not for units such as Grey Hunters but for attack squads. In case of Space Wolves new wolves are Blood Claws. So will they all new SM Blood Claw? But I am Space Wolves newbie If you have worries like that: Remember "Prospero burns"! Remember how Kaspar Hawser became a part of the Rout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarr Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now I do not know what I should I think about the new Astartes. Based on first information - simply they are not very in line with fluff. No drinking from Cup of Wulfen? No SW rituals. How such not very Wolfy SM would be part of such specific chapter? Maybe Space Wolves part of new SM are Wolf Brothers with stabilized gene seed and Leman knew it. Wolf Brother just disappeared and in times of the most need they will come.... Who knows? Stats are not very interesting or not for units such as Grey Hunters but for attack squads. In case of Space Wolves new wolves are Blood Claws. So will they all new SM Blood Claw? But I am Space Wolves newbie If you have worries like that: Remember "Prospero burns"! Remember how Kaspar Hawser became a part of the Rout. Touché, brother. Your're right :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) Just now I do not know what I should I think about the new Astartes. Based on first information - simply they are not very in line with fluff. No drinking from Cup of Wulfen? No SW rituals. How such not very Wolfy SM would be part of such specific chapter? Maybe Space Wolves part of new SM are Wolf Brothers with stabilized gene seed and Leman knew it. Wolf Brother just disappeared and in times of the most need they will come.... Who knows? Stats are not very interesting or not for units such as Grey Hunters but for attack squads. In case of Space Wolves new wolves are Blood Claws. So will they all new SM Blood Claw? But I am Space Wolves newbie If you have worries like that: Remember "Prospero burns"! Remember how Kaspar Hawser became a part of the Rout. Touché, brother. Your're right I mean … it took the talent of a Dan Abnett to make us believe that … but hey … maybe he writes something for the introduction of the Primaris … who knows … Edited May 15, 2017 by Filius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) interesting response from GW's offical facebokm his is from a convo on the facebook page: "Hey Michał, Certainly not every Space Marine Chapter in the galaxy is 100% sold on these new Space Marines. We'll have to wait and see what the Wolves make of them." Edited May 15, 2017 by Triszin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiltedMarine Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 interesting response from GW's offical facebokm his is from a convo on the facebook page: "Hey Michał, Certainly not every Space Marine Chapter in the galaxy is 100% sold on these new Space Marines. We'll have to wait and see what the Wolves make of them." I wouldn't read too much into that, personally. They've explicitly stated elsewhere that all Chapters can play the new units, so I doubt it will be a case of flat-out refusal. Stigma, distrust, uncertainty, sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 As much as I like the look of those new bolter rifles, my Jötunn will be sporting bows and arrows... frost giants welding fenrisian oak weaponry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4741974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I am excited to chop these guys up and merge them with wulfen to make my 13th co troopers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4742011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I am curious if the Grey Knights will get new marines as well. I found it interesting they were not mentioned along with the other "non-standard" Chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4742145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer grimblood Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 On one hand I'm excited about these new marines being included with all other chapters but on the other hand we are the Rout and do not take meddling with our gene seed lightly. Guilliman and Cawl may think these Astartes the Primaris but we are the 6th, the Rout. Bloodied but unbroken we have walked with Gods, found our long lost brothers of the 13th and banished Primarchs back to Hel itself! These new Astartes are pups and must be tempered much like a blade is quenched. If they wish to walk with us Godslayers then they must earn their place among us. Fenris Hjolda!! spacepup, Rand Winters, Khine and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333655-the-primaris-space-marines-and-the-space-wolves/#findComment-4742149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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