The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Triszin]

Natfka did a transcirpt of the face book warhammer team  QNA

[Valerian]

Natfka did a transcirpt of the face book warhammer team  QNA

 

Excellent, thanks.  I hadn't watched the video yet today.

 

@Wispy, I suppose this validates the little discussion we had.  Now it'll just be up to GW to tell us which iconic special characters have started "juicing up" and which haven't.  As you suggested, probably no to Logan and Ulrik, since they recently got new models, and are already old men.  However, probably yes to Ragnar, since he's the youngest Wolf Lord and has one of the oldest models in the game.

 

V

[Triszin]

PRIMARIS RAGNAR!!!! DO IT

[betrayer41]

Well 40k is now indefintiely on hold..They better get to releasing these ASAP!

[Grimtooth]

This Primaris rollout has been just about as messy as the AoS rollout.

 

GW might take the stance that Ulric and Logan can either/or be juiced, but modeling the juiced up version is on the conversion skIlls of the player as they won't provide a model.

 

But it would be very, very odd that the Great Wolf would refrain from taking a hot mjold shot to get Primarisized when all his youngins are around him.

[Garreck]

Who better to "primaris" than the man who stuck an axe in a daemon primarch's chest and lived to tell the tail?

 

That said I agree Grimnar's model is too new to justify the update. But Ragnar is a terrific candidate for refresh!

[Grimtooth]

Just had a thought,

 

Primarisized Bran with Primarisized Redmaw!!!!

[Wispy]

The people want Primaris Ragnar. Do it, Gee Dubs!

[Triszin]

PRIMARIS REDMAW.

 

PRIMARIS WULFENLORD REDMAW

 

no more caps for triszin today

[Valerian]

Don't accidentally leave the Primaris juice out where the Thunderwolves can get to it. Edited May 18, 2017 by Valerian

[Grimtooth]

And then we will have Lukas only Primarisizing "certain" body parts....

[Filius]

At first a Quote from the Q&A regarding the fluff … which was the original Topic here …
 

Few immediate takeaways: Primaris Marines can be taken by all Chapters, and can be raised through traditional recruitment methods rather than being vat-bred. More interestingly, it is possible to update an existing Marine to become Primaris (this suggests, IMO, eventual upgrade of all Marines into Primaris over time).

 
So that looks like it wouldn't be a lot easier for the Wolves to accept the Primaris, as they just "can be raised through traditional recruitment methods". So much on that Topic.
 

I would be willing to bet that after this year (as there might be stuff they want to roll out) you won't see anything for the old scale marines unless it is forgeworld for 30k. GW doesnt mean for two types of marines to be available forever. I don't like it but I realize what is happening. Eventually there will be just one type of marine being sold. Again it all comes down to GW knowing their market (its laughable that we make excuses for them and pretend like they do things on accident- like the Shadow War box sets selling out so quick and folks having to buy the individual box sets that cost more collectively). From a stats perspective the Primas marines arent that hugely impressive. An extra wound, a bit extra range on the boltrifles. Clearly not enough that would make you run out and buy a box if you were making a competitive list. Yet, how many folks have already said they would be buying the models. The Space Marine is an iconic figure for 40k and has been GW's cash cow for years. Now, let's say you are trying to really increase your profits, what's the easiest way to make money.... reboot all the Space Marine models. Sure, they will keep selling the stock of what they have for Land Raiders, Rhinos, Dreads etc- but gradually no more will be produced. If you enter the hobby in 5 years you will probably not know anything but NuMarine 2.0. Please don't take it personally but to think otherwise is folly. I understand GW has made some moves of late that seem to redefine them, but actually this is all cyclical. GW used to be more involved with their player base, they used to attend tournaments and have outsiders play test their games. Many of the rules we are seeing stem from 2nd or 3rd edition rules- they aren't reinventing the wheel. It may seem that way to alot of folks because in order for us to remember this, we have to be 47 years old or so (like I am). If you are in your thirties, you probably started with 4th or 5th edition and have no recollection of these events.

Ultimately the game and company is going to go where it goes, none of us have any control over that. If I was just getting into the hobby I would probably get NuMarine 2.0, but as I have said at this juncture and my age, I have no need for him or any of the other vehicles etc to come. I have 3 dreads already, plenty of rhinos. predators etc I dont need a bigger/cooler version, as long as I have the rules I can always play my existing army with the updated stats.

Filius as far as us getting alot of attention model wise, that isn't a surprise, GW knows SW models sell. They didn't make a dreadnought or thunderwolf cav for us as a favor, they did it to help pay their employees. Several of the vocal players around here in fact despise the thunderwolf cav being introduced to the model line as the Grey Hunter should be the backbone of the SW army. However, as I keep saying, rule of cool (in this case, how a model looks and play on the game board) wins all the time over fluff.

Unfortunately with the SW fluff, which many of us love, there really isn't alot to like with the induction of the new marines. I would guess it might be cooler if we played Ultras.. I personally wouldnt think SW would be the type to take any help from outsiders even given the recent fluff changes and near destruction of their system. In fact I would argue they would take offence to it or take it as a challenge to out perform any of these new marines....

and there you have it, the fluff for using the old marines with new rules. The existing SW pushed themselves, trained themselves to be even more exceptional than they are.

 

I think we can agree to disagree on this. Although I also nearly as old as Ulrik (42 to be exact) and also started with the Franchise in the early 90ies, I didn't play for nearly 25 years and mostly just followed the fluff and the general development. So I definitely lack your experience with the Game. And todays News adds to your direction of Arguments (old Marines can be up-primarised, fluff wise). But I still keep up hope. So … we see at the end of the year what has happend and until then we brush the fur of the Thunderwolves …

[MaveriK]

Okay so on a somewhat different topic regarding how-to model/paint these guys. I had this thought while driving home from work. I'm totally gonna turn these Jötunn into literal frost giants of fenrisian/ancient terran lore. Those without helms will be painted with an icy skin tone. The fluff will just say that mars tech tried to suppress the canis helix only for it to backfire while under stasis, turning the skin into whitish-ice with blue edges. Referred to as the White-walkers by the enemies of Russ and the Jötunn to the Vlka Fenryka. It's gonna be dope!

[Triszin]

Okay so on a somewhat different topic regarding how-to model/paint these guys. I had this thought while driving home from work. I'm totally gonna turn these Jötunn into literal frost giants of fenrisian/ancient terran lore. Those without helms will be painted with an icy skin tone. The fluff will just say that mars tech tried to suppress the canis helix only for it to backfire while under stasis, turning the skin into whitish-ice with blue edges. Referred to as the White-walkers by the enemies of Russ and the Jötunn to the Vlka Fenryka. It's gonna be dope!

stop thinkin' what I'm thinkin'

 

@maverik The ones with power fists, Paint them as Hel frost Fists

[Jarl Caldersson]

Now that the whole "current marines can become Primaris Marines" is set, I can accept them into the Aett as true wolves instead of UM in Wolf skin. I imagine that some of the 1st wave will be more UM-like, kind of like the pre-Russ SW's. Some may integrate and some may not, but eventually they will die out and the Primaris Gene will remain inside the legion. Now to read the lore, and hope that there is some SW-specific models, otherwise might need to learn how to use green-stuff and free hand some knotwork... not something I have done and something I fear.

 

I may use the models as replacement for my Wolf Guard, or if possible, have my Wolf Guard be Primaris marines. The questions still remains, can they use Thunderwolfs, jump packs, bikes etc etc. This would be perfect if I could use  Primaris TWC, as my chapter is supposed to be smaller and I would sacrifice some points to have that small elite pack mentality on the board. My mind is slightly at ease now.

[Valerian]

Now that the whole "current marines can become Primaris Marines" is set, I can accept them into the Aett as true wolves instead of UM in Wolf skin. I imagine that some of the 1st wave will be more UM-like, kind of like the pre-Russ SW's. Some may integrate and some may not, but eventually they will die out and the Primaris Gene will remain inside the legion. Now to read the lore, and hope that there is some SW-specific models, otherwise might need to learn how to use green-stuff and free hand some knotwork... not something I have done and something I fear.

 

Just use the special shoulder pads from the upgrade pack, and then throw on a wolf tail from the current Space Wolves pack on every third dude in the squad.  You can also use some of the bare heads from that same sprue, if you don't want them all with their cool new helmets on.

 

 

 

I may use the models as replacement for my Wolf Guard, or if possible, have my Wolf Guard be Primaris marines. The questions still remains, can they use Thunderwolfs, jump packs, bikes etc etc. This would be perfect if I could use  Primaris TWC, as my chapter is supposed to be smaller and I would sacrifice some points to have that small elite pack mentality on the board. My mind is slightly at ease now.

 

They definitely won't get access to Thunderwolves.  We know that initially, they'll have be very generic, as shown in the Intercessor Squad, already leaked.  There will be other unit types, so I'd definitely expect to see an assault version with jump packs, but I doubt there would be any bikers.

 

Don't forget that your actual Wolf Guard are very likely going to get a special rule that helps them protect your Characters, so you'll probably want to take real Wolf Guard to take advantage of that.  You don't want some Eldar Rangers to snipe out your Wolf Lord, after all.

 

V

[Karack Blackstone]

Awesome news; I hope it's something like 7 or 12 points to upgrade each regular SM in any given SW pack.

Imagine, 10 GH's, 2 special ranged weapons, a 2 W WGPL with the same options, and, to top that off, a special close combat weapon in the squad too.

Likely some ways off, however, if this ever happens, I know an "Always take" upgrade on my WGPL with PF/SS that I have, all six of them!

[Valerian]

I responded to you in the other thread, but I think this one is the more appropriate place, so I'll copy it in here:

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's not going to work like that, Karack.

 

Initially, we'll get all of the same units that we've had in 7th edition, at roughly the same power level (adjusted for 8e balance, of course).  And, we'll get access to Primaris Space Marine squads that will get the Space Wolves keyword, but that will otherwise be Primaris-specific units (like the Intercessor Squad), and not designed like the units that we are familiar with.  We've seen the "tactical squad" version, and no doubt there will be assault and terminator versions (and a few others) ready at release that we'll have access to, as well, but they won't be +1 Wound and +1 Attack versions of Grey Hunters, or Wolf Guard, or anything else that we currently have.

 

They'll have Space Wolves geneseed, Space Wolves special rules (via the flexible keyword system), and Space Wolves paint schemes, but they'll be in Primaris-specific kinds of units.

 

 

I wish it were otherwise, but I'm about 95% confident that the news that there is a process to "upgrade" current Marines to Primaris will only impact our special characters, who will get upgraded over time as new models are released for them at the larger scale.  So, I'd expect we'll get some fluff that says Ragnar has decided to lead the way and give a go at the transformation.  Then we'll get a new, large Ragnar model, and with the model we'll get a new dataslate detailing Ragnar with his new improved stats.  Characters won't get the upgrade until they get the appropriate model released, so some of them will be waiting a while (Logan and Ulrik both have recent models, so I expect they'll be going last, if ever).

 

 

I'd like to be wrong on this, however, and be able to just upgrade Grey Hunters, or Blood Claws, or whatever to improved stats with a per-model surcharge.  I just don't think it'll pan out like that.

[Liege]

Correct me if I'm wrong brothers but in regard to the new marines being true-scale? Aren't they scaled to be the same size that Marines should always have been on the tabletop? But in the fluff they are taller....so the tabletop Primaris are not true-scale as they should be even taller based on the fluff?

 

Also a concern I have is that doesn't it throw off the scale for weapons and vehicles? Say Grimnar's Axe Morkai. Won't it look far smaller in his hands if he becomes Primaris? And if it is still proportionately the same size, how is that explained in the lore?

[Jarl Caldersson]

Weapons can be reforged and corrected to size. Morkai has been reforged more than once, Grimnar broke it, Arjac reforged it, Arjac broke it, Arjac reforged it again. I would not worry about weapon sizes.

 

As for the true scale, I think people are discussing conversions. Making Blood Claws/Tactical Marines out of Primaris models. We also do not know how much larger the Primaris Marines are and it could be they are true scale. Right now we have to wait and see, and hope that there is a SW upgrade kit or a SW specific models.

[Wraithwing]

Just a thought, but Canis Wolfborn is another prime candidate for Primarisation. He can pretty messed up during Curse of the Wulfen. It'd be a cool way to fix him.

[Runefyre]

I've got no issues integrating the new "jotun into my company, for it is a lost one so I can do what I want

[MaveriK]

I'd love for plastic armour chest upgrades for these guys, similar to what we got over at FW with the torsos.

 

More tattoo/viking style etching on the armour would be cooler than the regular pelts or animal fanged necklaces. Subtle, clean and simple.

[LoneViking]

If it wasn't for this whole chaos incursion it would be very easy to integrate them, just go on a bonding trip like Russ did with the first batch of fenrisian SW and the Terran SW's.  Go find a giant Waaagh and launch a lightning strike campaign against them until everyone has spilled blood with one another on numerous occasions

[Ragnarr]

New box is coming - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-launch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/.

 

Jump version seems to be more like destroyers in 30k. But those small shields are really strange :). No close cobat weapons. New ranks - lieutenants. Captain in new TDA. But all looks good.

 

Chaos Marines - look giod but I do not like chaos marines and I really hate plague ones :).