The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Grimtooth]

 

 

The new Grav Tanks can be dropped from Orbit?! Holy Cannoli!

Dark Imperium Page 112

 

"Three Repulsor grav-tanks fell from the sky like stones, decelerating rapidly and coming to a gentle halt a couple of metres above the ground, right by the flanking Iron Warriors."

Not a single stat leak in the Repulsor has mentioned oribtal drops or the like, which would be huge news to link. Not sure that a BL excerpt is going to be the best reference to use on this, but good luck to the Repulsor on getting it. Granted it would have to be priced along the lines of a Landraider plus a drop pod, so like 500+ points?

[Guest]

 

 

The new Grav Tanks can be dropped from Orbit?! Holy Cannoli!

Dark Imperium Page 112

 

"Three Repulsor grav-tanks fell from the sky like stones, decelerating rapidly and coming to a gentle halt a couple of metres above the ground, right by the flanking Iron Warriors."

Not a single stat leak in the Repulsor has mentioned oribtal drops or the like, which would be huge news to link. Not sure that a BL excerpt is going to be the best reference to use on this, but good luck to the Repulsor on getting it. Granted it would have to be priced along the lines of a Landraider plus a drop pod, so like 500+ points?

 

 

We can never rely on the tabletop to demonstrate the lore properly. If that was the case Arjac would be demolishing multiple monstrous tyranids by himself. Daemon Princes would be paper compared to some Chapter Masters. 

 

But seeing as we are discussing a lore topic of Ragnar taking over the Wolf Spear, it is fitting to use lore references to discuss this. Tabletop does not care for lore only for stats and rules. For all tabletop cares Lukas could be the Great Wolf as long as his stats fit the role.

 

As for as "leaked rules" we only have to look at the reivers. Some leaks have them having Outflank, others have them not having it. We don't know until SM Codex drops if the Primaris are in there. Then again each chapter might have a unique spin on a Primaris. Who knows, we don't.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Caldersson

[Grimtooth]

No weapons stats and transport capacity was leaked for the Repulsor.

 

Ragnar has an set of rules and lore have in the past support each other. So you are basically saying that the established rules and lore of Ragnar will align with what leaked lore we have now, which so far does not point to an assault themed army with the Primaris. Even the articles pointed out that despite the extra wound and attack, Primaris would still need dedicated assault units from the normal SM line to be effective. That doesn't suggest a planetary assault like army at all.

 

I would much expect a new HQ release with model for the Wolfspear that will just basically be a Primaris Captain ++, not one of the lore and rule established wolf lords to suddenly change a lifetime of experience or try and teach a lifetime of experience to a force not suited to their role.

 

Can't teach and old dog new tricks.

[MaveriK]

completely off topic and I apologize ahead of time but from what I've read on here it's been roughly about 100+ years since wrath of Magnus right? Would it be safe to hypothesize that wulfen are no longer a secret amongst Astartes and some within the Inquisition. Midgardia debris no longer toxic and can serve as a asteroid belt shield. Frostheim repopulated and rebuilt. The Fang rebuild with stronger wards. If anything the war showed the Wolves their weaknesses in security and defenses. Also I was thinking. What if. Those natives who were taken "killed" by the Inquisition, what if... it was all a cover for Crawl to resupply Fenrisian stock aka more Primaris reinforcements for the Wolf Spear? 100+ years can make a lot of difference within the fenris system! Just a thought.

[Gherrick]

Has there been any official "response" from the Inquisition concerning the Primaris?

[Guest]

completely off topic and I apologize ahead of time but from what I've read on here it's been roughly about 100+ years since wrath of Magnus right? Would it be safe to hypothesize that wulfen are no longer a secret amongst Astartes and some within the Inquisition. Midgardia debris no longer toxic and can serve as a asteroid belt shield. Frostheim repopulated and rebuilt. The Fang rebuild with stronger wards. If anything the war showed the Wolves their weaknesses in security and defenses. Also I was thinking. What if. Those natives who were taken "killed" by the Inquisition, what if... it was all a cover for Crawl to resupply Fenrisian stock aka more Primaris reinforcements for the Wolf Spear? 100+ years can make a lot of difference within the fenris system! Just a thought.

The indominus crusade alone was 112 years long, plus fall of cadia events, plus time between wrath of magnus and cadia. So we are looking at what 200 years?

 

A lot of lore cane be rewritten in 200 years. We dont know what GW is planning and they have 200 years and a whole slew of events to reforge the Space Wolves. If all the current Wolf Lords are alive since the Fall of Cadia, we still are missing 2 plus a successor chapter.

 

The index as we already know is already had changes to it and further changes could be made. We are missing multiple Primaris units. I fully expect GW to make some major changes to all the chapters.

 

We dont know the full details of the SW and the Primaris and the Wolf Spear. Grimnar could have bargained with RG (like the DA did and he seemdd reasonable) to have a successor chapter but all recruiting been done from Fenris. We could have embraced the Primaris also.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Caldersson

[Sun Reaver]

I am really hoping some of the current named characters get the Primaris treatment. Ragnar, Dante, Seth, Sammael, Khan, Shrike, etc - those would be sick! 

[Grimtooth]

I am really hoping some of the current named characters get the Primaris treatment. Ragnar, Dante, Seth, Sammael, Khan, Shrike, etc - those would be sick!

I would advise against you holding your breath on that hope. Expect an unarmed Gravis Captain with access to SW armory. Those special characters are not giving up centuries of combat experience within a specific tactical doctrine to lead the Primaris.

[Sun Reaver]

 

I am really hoping some of the current named characters get the Primaris treatment. Ragnar, Dante, Seth, Sammael, Khan, Shrike, etc - those would be sick!

I would advise against you holding your breath on that hope. Expect an unarmed Gravis Captain with access to SW armory. Those special characters are not giving up centuries of combat experience within a specific tactical doctrine to lead the Primaris.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the older models got the treatment. The transition to Primaris doesn't involve "giving up" anything, especially combat experience. The characters themselves will become faster, stronger, and more durable so that they can continue to lead their warriors/chapter to glory.

 

This makes even more sense if you think about all the chapters that suffered grievous losses around the same time RG came back. The Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Scythes of the Emperor, and many more will now have numerous Primaris marines within their chapters, perhaps even entire companies. And then, when all the "regular" marines die out, they will ALL be replaced by Primaris marines. 

 

Either these guys are going to die out with the old marine variant or evolve alongside their own chapters.

 

I am willing to bet that GW won't kill off Ragnar, Grimnar, Dante, Seth, Calgar, Shrike, and the Khan. In fact, imagine how many people will buy a Primaris version of Ragnar or Dante. GW will be laughing all the way to the bank my friend. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sun Reaver

[Dantay VI]

I am guessing the Logan model is too new to be primarisized, although it would be one way of keeping t "very" old wolf alive a bit longer. He & Ulrik must be true ancients, as they were old before the 110+ year Indomitus crusade kicked off.

[Lord Blackwood]

Id like to see Ragnar get that treatment , a new model , with a dynamic pose  

[Grimtooth]

As mentioned there is no way that they are going to take an existing wolf lord and have him basically dump all his gathered combat experience fighting as a Wolf to fight as a Primaris. It makes no sense lore wise at all when we are already short two companies due to Wrath of Magnus which they can easily slot in a generic Primaris captain with access to the SW armory.

 

With the upcoming SM codex release, if there is a named Primaris captain in that codex, then you might be able to expect a named SW Primaris when our codex drops. But don't expect it as once an existing special character, but possibly a new Primaris "wolf lord" to lead a Primaris GC.

[Guest Triszin]

I've been thinking on the drivers, i think they make for great 13th co shock troops in conjunction with wulfen.

 

Aggressors look awful, skipping them.

 

Converting standard primaris Marines to my blood claws and grey hunters

 

Skipping redemptor dread.

 

Really curious to see the full rules kit for the repulsor tank

[Grimtooth]

I was expectIng Reivers to have something like infiltrate or scout or something but it appears to just be the scary masks?

[Valerian]

I was expectIng Reivers to have something like infiltrate or scout or something but it appears to just be the scary masks?

 

We haven't seen their codex rules yet; I assume they'll get the same "Deploy more than 9" away from enemy units" that everybody else with a special deployment type gets.

[Guest Triszin]

I think they'll be decent troops to deal with mass infantry, not elites

[MaveriK]

I was expectIng Reivers to have something like infiltrate or scout or something but it appears to just be the scary masks?

I can see a disgruntled lone wolf scout with a sniper rifle looking through his scope. Sees the reivers and laughs. Terror troops? The Wolves and the night lords knew of terror before it became mainstream! Nice mask. Might as well be a bullseye target LOL

 

Out of principle I dislike the idea of these new troops because they take away the uniqueness of certain troops that gave each specific chapter it's wow/cool factor. There was a time when our Long Fangs were the only squad/pack that could split fire. Now many can do it. There was a time Wolf Scouts stood out because of their fluff and rules. Now it looks like they are replaced or in direct competition by these Reivers.

 

I guess only time will tell. There are a few decent models that I could play around with and kit-bash. Just waiting for the fluff and SW book to come out and see how this all relates and fits in the chapter.

 

The Aggressors are a disappointment. The groin lantern thing just tells me the person who sculpted the thing was just LAZY. Shame on you if you're reading this!!!!

 

Surprised they don't have a techmarine. Chaplain looks cool, more so if you're a DA player. I wonder how Calgar feels now that all the new guys have similar gauntlets. Pssst, you're not special anymore.... :(

Edited July 16, 2017 by MaveriK

[Valerian]

Surprised they don't have a techmarine. 

 

 

Those will likely come later.  Probably just weren't a priority enough to make the first wave.  

[Lord Blackwood]

As mentioned there is no way that they are going to take an existing wolf lord and have him basically dump all his gathered combat experience fighting as a Wolf to fight as a Primaris. It makes no sense lore wise at all when we are already short two companies due to Wrath of Magnus which they can easily slot in a generic Primaris captain with access to the SW armory.

 

With the upcoming SM codex release, if there is a named Primaris captain in that codex, then you might be able to expect a named SW Primaris when our codex drops. But don't expect it as once an existing special character, but possibly a new Primaris "wolf lord" to lead a Primaris GC.

 

Mentioned by who exactly ? 

 

You just sorta threw that out there like you throw out a lot of baseless claims stemming from your personal bias. 

 

Its not outside the realm of possibility at all for them to turn  Ragnar into a Primaris Hero just as its not outside the realm of possibility that  doing so would not change anything about him outside of making him stronger faster and bigger than regular marines. 

 

It would be a great way to give space wolves a new  Release and a hero character thats been prominently featured in  our fluff to get behind. 

 

It would be worth it for  how they could sculpt frostfang alone. 

[Valerian]

"Reivers, on the other hand, are a versatile and powerful unit in a Raven Guard army and function well with other assault units; they’re almost as mobile as jump troops with their grapnel launchers and grav-chutes..."

 

Like I was saying.

[Sun Reaver]

 

As mentioned there is no way that they are going to take an existing wolf lord and have him basically dump all his gathered combat experience fighting as a Wolf to fight as a Primaris. It makes no sense lore wise at all when we are already short two companies due to Wrath of Magnus which they can easily slot in a generic Primaris captain with access to the SW armory.

 

With the upcoming SM codex release, if there is a named Primaris captain in that codex, then you might be able to expect a named SW Primaris when our codex drops. But don't expect it as once an existing special character, but possibly a new Primaris "wolf lord" to lead a Primaris GC.

Mentioned by who exactly ? 

 

You just sorta threw that out there like you throw out a lot of baseless claims stemming from your personal bias. 

 

Its not outside the realm of possibility at all for them to turn  Ragnar into a Primaris Hero just as its not outside the realm of possibility that  doing so would not change anything about him outside of making him stronger faster and bigger than regular marines. 

 

It would be a great way to give space wolves a new  Release and a hero character thats been prominently featured in  our fluff to get behind. 

 

It would be worth it for  how they could sculpt frostfang alone. 

 

 

Dude, Lord Blackwood, you hit it exactly on the head.  

 

Expressing  your dismay and disdain in regards to Primaris Marines and their assimilation into the Space Wolves chapter is fine; people have every right to express their opinion. What I don't agree with is how certain folks have been making things up and creating baseless arguments with no substantial evidence. 

 

Do not claim its the truth when you can't cite it. 

 

Also, according to fluff that has been confirmed and reinforced numerous times, a marine doesn't "dump" their combat experience when they upgrade to Primaris status. They just gain 3 new organs. That is literally it. All their memories, combat experience, personality, etc - those things do NOT change. 

 

In fact, not only are they better due to faster speed, greater strength, and superior healing capabilities, they also would learn, understand, and eventually master the newer technologies and fighting styles that the Primaris have introduced. This would make any marine, especially a Wolf Lord, even more well-rounded which would result in GREATER combat experience. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Sun Reaver

[Guest Triszin]

grav chutes and grapples for my count as 13th co shock troops

[Lord Blackwood]

Everything i hear about this unit makes me want to field them. 

[Grimtooth]

Yea, I dthink don't put and "I" in there before mentioned, because it was I that mentioned it earlier. But of course it was enough to trigger you Primaris nuthuggers into conniptions. Seriously, you guys are the 41k version of snowflakes!

 

If it is your wishlist/nocturnal omission that one of our special characters is going to become a Primaris Marine bas d upon assumption and you choose to post it, then I can just as easily and rightly so disagree with it and respond and should be able to on the same basis of evidence that all of you insist; conjecture and opinion.

 

And to be clear, of course you do not lose combat experience through the Primaris "upgrade". I never once mentioned that at all. But if your modus operandi of combat involves planetary assaults via drop pods with tons of Blood Claws and whatnot, it would be tactically IDIOTIC for your leader to then dump you into an army full of Primaris units that do not follow that combat doctrine. That would be akin to making Erik Morkai the Jarl of a full mech great company. The whole great company concept is based upon round peg in the round hole.

 

So while I make my assumptions on keeping the combat experience of special character preserved within their established combat doctrines, you can keep basing your assumptions on wishlisting.

 

Now, the exception to the rule would be giving Ragnar the Primaris upgrade while keeping him as jarl of his great company that specializes in lightening fast planetary assaults. Well then ok, his GC could probably have Primaris elements in it, but then Ragnar is basically removed in his role of leading his BC and GH in said planetary assaults due to transport restrictions placed upon Primaris units. So again, another assumption by me based upon tactical considerations.

 

But lo and behold, what does mesh tactically with basically almost every Primaris unit? A HQ bubble that allows reroll to hits for small 5 man units of Hellblasters and Intercessors as well as a 3 man units of Aggressors. InterestIng that a generic Gravis Captain with access to the SW armory would fill that role perfectly. Maybe even toss a name on him from his time in the Wolfspear that gives his some rules that make him Wolfy while cementing his tactical combat doctrine in leading Primaris units.

 

But hey, you guys are tired of having a voice that proposes actual reason and thought into a discussion. So do me a favor and just ignore me after this as I have you. Deal?

[Garreck]

I'm jazzed about integrating primaris with the space wolves and all, but I think a "primarisized" existing named SW character is the height of wishlisting. Fun to talk about and hope for, but hardly defensible as a prediction.