The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Wolf_Lord_Hardrada]

From my understanding, whilst the Cup of Wulfen is itself an important item for the Wolves, it is just a cup and its the liquid contained within that's really important. Given the 30k lore and look the Wolves are as pragmatic as they are anything else. If they had to have the aspirants drink out of their boots to get the Canis into them, they would. So I see no issue with further future successors having their own Cups.

 

As for the Test of Morkai...my understanding when first reading the Ragnar books (all those moons ago) was that it was a test preformed by the chapters Priests. So that's something that can easily be done on other planets.

 

I know that the old Ragnar era fluff (that is 90s/early 2000s) is a lot more cheesy than the way the legion is portrayed in HH, and whilst yes there is 10,000 years of legion evolution in that time, I personally prefer the newer less goofy aesthetic. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Ragnar crushing on Inquisitors if he wants to but those books were written in a different time and 40k has grown up somewhat since then. Having said that, the same pragmatism I talked about earlier is there in those books too. Whilst Ragnar does get 'punished' for loosing the Spear of Russ, he also undoubtedly saved a vast number of wolves and worlds in doing so, not to mention poking Magnus inna' eye. So I think that if the 6th have to start doing things a little differently, and if those differences mean that we have more power to strike back against the traitors then are they aren't so bad.

 

Besides, I hate those Thunderwolves so the first change can be to get rid of the damn things!

 

Oh also, I can very much see the Primary-Sues fitting into the warrior ethos of the Vlka. Just as being chosen to join the Gods is a glory to be obtained by Fenrisians, perhaps being granted elevation to the Jotunn is a new glory for Wolflings to chase? Just as a warlord might grant arm-rings and wealth to his greatest warriors, mayhaps the Old Wolf will grant this glory to those he finds fitting?

 

Also also, I've decided not to buy the Dark Imperium box set, I'm not a fan of clip together models and from what I've seen of the sprues I can't swap out any shoulder pads for wolf specific ones.

Edited June 5, 2017 by WarriorFish
Swear filter dodge removed

[Gherrick]

For the record, I love the TWC, so I'd like them to stay, please :) I'm not loving the 8e rules for them, as they seem in all ways inferior to bikes, but I digress.

[Wolf_Lord_Hardrada]

I just never liked the idea of them, though the models are freakin' sweet :)

[Triszin]

lady atia on war of sigmar said gravis IS the new termi armor =(

[Runefyre]

lady atia on war of sigmar said gravis IS the new termi armor =(

That's actually good news, it means that primaris won't have a unit that steps on terminators monopoly on the 2+ save market.

[RikuEru]

lady atia on war of sigmar said gravis IS the new termi armor =(

...for now.

Until the Primaris need a new Release next year and Cawl has done a modern Version of the Saturnine Terminator Armor or some such.

[Grey Mage]

Thing is that Fenris (although being such a nice place to live on and with such a high rate of birth) won't be able to provide enough recruits for two or more chapters.

 

Until now, it kind of makes sense for me. Let me explain:

 

- the Nordic themed worlds: we always had those; Midgardia, Frostheim, Garm were all somehow connected to Fenris; don't know it they are indeed Nordic but that was an assumption by Riku which would make sense to me (IMHO)

- if Cawl took about 1000 or more recruits from Fenris and turned them into Primaris Marines, it'd be ok. Why not? We don't know yet how many Primaris were released from slumber (assumed we might not even get the real numbers at all), so we can have 1k or even way more

- we were close at getting some successor prior to the Battle of the Fang but I assume that Cawl does have way more (and better) resources to work with on Mars; that's why I think he succeeded where even Fabius failed

- about the people of Fenris spread across the enclosed realm: I mean, why not? A lot can happen in 10K years. Don't forget about the staff and soldiers of the Aett (forgot their name...sham on me), their descendants could have spread on several worlds. And we got some decent population on other worlds of Fenris prior to the events of Warzone Fenris as well. Midgardia was populated. Was it on Valdrmani or Svellgard? On one of them did we have some dome cities which were highly populated. So there are indeed a lot of Fenrisians (calling all people of the Fenris system) to recruit from.

- The world soul thing is still a better solution than to let our Rune Priests take their powers from the Warp, revealing them to be hypocrite.

 

I know how you feel. There are still a lot of big question marks in my head as well! That's why I stopped working on a Primaris successor. I'll wait until we got real facts and until we got some real stuff in our hands. Right now, we only have rumors, leaks (which are quoted out of context) and a lot of suggestions and discussions.

 

Let's wait until we got more, ok?

I mean.... it was enough to support a legion of 15,000 or so.... minimum.

[Valerian]

Or even up to 100,000, after they retconned it up an order of magnitude.

[Grey Mage]

Indeed. All things considered Im sure we can keep a dozen or so chapters running smoothly off our homey lil deathworld eh?

I really need to get this book with Magnus coming down to play though, Im seeing things about us feeding power off of the tyranids?

[Wispy]

That's a good point. If Fenris could support a legion, it could support a bunch of Chapters.

 

A wide network of Space Wolves chapter worlds, with Fenris as its hub? 

That said, given events of Wrath of Magnus, the Fenrisians would need a babyboom for sure.

[Wolf_Lord_Hardrada]

That's a good point. If Fenris could support a legion, it could support a bunch of Chapters.

 

A wide network of Space Wolves chapter worlds, with Fenris as its hub? 

That said, given events of Wrath of Magnus, the Fenrisians would need a babyboom for sure.

 

Like a feudal kingdom, each a power unto their own, but ultimately reliant on the support and approval of a greater lord.

[Triszin]

That's a good point. If Fenris could support a legion, it could support a bunch of Chapters.

 

A wide network of Space Wolves chapter worlds, with Fenris as its hub? 

That said, given events of Wrath of Magnus, the Fenrisians would need a babyboom for sure.

cawls got pills for that. and chambers 

[Grimtooth]

Thing is that Fenris (although being such a nice place to live on and with such a high rate of birth) won't be able to provide enough recruits for two or more chapters.

 

Until now, it kind of makes sense for me. Let me explain:

 

- the Nordic themed worlds: we always had those; Midgardia, Frostheim, Garm were all somehow connected to Fenris; don't know it they are indeed Nordic but that was an assumption by Riku which would make sense to me (IMHO)

- if Cawl took about 1000 or more recruits from Fenris and turned them into Primaris Marines, it'd be ok. Why not? We don't know yet how many Primaris were released from slumber (assumed we might not even get the real numbers at all), so we can have 1k or even way more

- we were close at getting some successor prior to the Battle of the Fang but I assume that Cawl does have way more (and better) resources to work with on Mars; that's why I think he succeeded where even Fabius failed

- about the people of Fenris spread across the enclosed realm: I mean, why not? A lot can happen in 10K years. Don't forget about the staff and soldiers of the Aett (forgot their name...sham on me), their descendants could have spread on several worlds. And we got some decent population on other worlds of Fenris prior to the events of Warzone Fenris as well. Midgardia was populated. Was it on Valdrmani or Svellgard? On one of them did we have some dome cities which were highly populated. So there are indeed a lot of Fenrisians (calling all people of the Fenris system) to recruit from.

- The world soul thing is still a better solution than to let our Rune Priests take their powers from the Warp, revealing them to be hypocrite.

 

I know how you feel. There are still a lot of big question marks in my head as well! That's why I stopped working on a Primaris successor. I'll wait until we got real facts and until we got some real stuff in our hands. Right now, we only have rumors, leaks (which are quoted out of context) and a lot of suggestions and discussions.

 

Let's wait until we got more, ok? :)

Frostheim was the only ice planet said have people like Fenrisians other than the planet that the Wolf Brothers were taken from. Midgardia is a toxic jungle planet and Garm isn't even in our system. It is just a planet saved but Jarl Garm that has some Wolves guarding the Shrine of Garm.

 

As for rune priests, we had a Terran rune priest in Prospero Burns. He had power and was not a Fenrisian born, so a connection with the world spirit of Fenris must have taken place at sometime after Russ was united with his Legion. Of course we already had gothi as part of Fenrisian culture who I believe were attuned enough to recognize Kasper for the maleficarum he possessed when he first crash landed on Fenris.

 

But extremely lazy to just say, "hey we got these guys from the Heresy" and that suddenly solves the whole integration thing. Kinda crap on Bjorn being the oldest somewhat alive SM if we have other Heresy era Wolves now running around not to mention that it seems they missed on a long history of the hard times and challenges the chapter faced. We also know that Russ knew the chapter had to be reborn, not only after the issues with the AL in the red nebula, but also with his appointment of Bjorn as his successor when he left. Yet apparently these guys missed out on all that, plus more.

 

Wish it would have just been taking existing SW Blood Claws or aspirants.....=(

[Jarl Caldersson]

So reading the book, and I am not done yet and will update later, it seems that only the Primaris Marines are "successors" but even then are not happy about it as they want to return to Fenris.

 

MY THOUGHTS: It seems like they were forced. The rest of the SWs are still united. This may cause friction between the SW and Guilliman and Russ will not be happy his sons were forced apart.

 

As of right now, again I am not done with the book, we have not divided willingly and we I have not read Grimnars response, if there is one. Keeping a Wolf from returning home will not be looked upon favorably. It even mentions how Russ denied the codex and how we do not use it, and this is Guillimans doing. I hope this is not the first steps of making us codex compliant.

 

I have been keeping notes and references about all things connected to the wolves. So no "hazy blurbs" but actual information. I will start another thread so we can start fresh and, mods allowing, lay out a few rules to allow less confusion and separate fact, personal thoughts, and rumors.

 

As a side note, when I started reading this book I felt slight relief how Guilliman had fixed a lot of the issues. Now though it grows monotonous, how everything Guilliman or Cawl touches is better and/or improved with no side effect. Battleships have 10% better subsystems but no drawback such as high maintenance or power drain or instability.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

As a side note, when I started reading this book I felt slight relief how Guilliman had fixed a lot of the issues. Now though it grows monotonous, how everything Guilliman or Cawl touches is better and/or improved with no side effect. Battleships have 10% better subsystems but no drawback such as high maintenance or power drain or instability.

 

Well to be fair, they ARE from an age where using machines required thought and intelligence, and not prayers.

 

Their improving poorly maintained tech is hardly surprising. 

[Kelborn]

Oh...yeah...you're right. Fenris was able to support an entire Legion....*facepalm*

 

Forgot about that, sorry.

 

I kinda liking the idea of Fenris being the center of a SW-ish domain of Wispy.

 

Regarding the Primaris Wolves. Well, that's the info we got from Dark Imperium. We still have to see, how GW will implement them in the coming codices.

 

But until then, yes, I agree with you, Brother Ramses. If the explanation will only be like: Those guys are Fenrisians from the past. Go and take accept them as your brothers! - It is a poorly one.

 

And don't forget about ideologies, etc. 30K Wolves were different than 40K Wolves. I assume that 30K Wolves -> Primaris were more living the executioner role /  saga than the rebellious, people caring 40K Wolves. If done well, there is potential for some great interactions of what it means to be a son of Russ in the 42st Millennium. Could be cool if they make the Wolfspear chapter like the Russ' Wolves of 30K. But I fear that GW will just adept them, assigning them to the 40K Wolves with no cultural differences and whatsoever. :/

 

But as for now, I'd like to offer you my hand, Ramses and apologize for my latest posts and my inappropriate tone.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Kelborn

[RikuEru]

Guys, those aren't 30k LEGIONNAIRES taken into the Primaris Project. They are Aspirants. Boys from 10-14. I doubt they know anything about the 30k 6th Legion, the whole Executioner thing or qhat happened at Prospero (unless they learned that during hyperindoctrination history class).

They never WERE part of the 6th Legion itself.

 

 

But what they DO know is Fenrisian Culture. They know that becoming a Skywarrior is the highest honor to achieve. They heard of Russ, a Son of Fenris, being the Son of the Allfather himself. They know how to throw an Axe and to honor the Elders.

 

 

What I'd like to see, would be our Successor Chapters to be mostly Fleet based (Similiar to how the Great Companies work already). Fenris as the "Main base", to fuel up, get ressources and so on and other posts, (old ones like Garm and newly established ones) being reinforced as outposts.

To expand on the whole Viking theme of sea-faring, etc.

 

 

And I doubt we will EVER become Codex-Compliant. Neither Codex 1.0 nor 2.0.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chapter-/Lineage-Specific Primaris Units in a year or two. (Similiar to how the Stormcasts get more and more Specializations for the different Chambers)

[Grimtooth]

Ideologies is what I was talking about.

 

Russ left the Wolves with Bjorn as his successor to lead the Wolves in a way that he knew they needed to be led and took his older wolf guard with him thus leaving the chapter in "new" hands so to speak. So I question it as well as how will they integrate two different eras and how much really will a Heresy era Wolf listen to a "pup" like Logan?

 

If what has been revealed already about one of the Heresy era Wolves being loud and boisterous, they have already killed the grim and taciturn image of the Wolf Legionaires and look to have adopted the Ragnar book series humor style of the Wolves.

[Fang_Guard23]

why not set the wolfspear up on the planet that the wolf brothers used, likely it should still live

[Triszin]

they are on the planet that was the last planet conquered in the indominus crusade. 

 

god I need this lore on them, must read

[Jarl Caldersson]

they are on the planet that was the last planet conquered in the indominus crusade. 

 

god I need this lore on them, must read

 

I almost done doing the notes that pertain to the wolves in this book, but the SW handbook is taking my time also.

[Graymane]

You know, i have to admit, i didnt like the new marines at first on principle. Thought it was a slap in the face to the wolves i know and love.

However, i find myself looking at the new models over and over again. With the exception of the new jump packs (really not convinced there, but hey - conversion opportunity) they are really nice. It is good to have the story move on a bit and i am shamelessly going to be building an army of wolves or suitably fearsome successor chapter (bears maybe?) from this new material. 

I am already mentally pulling them apart and converting them.

I think it will be fun and they will look good.

Bring 'em on! :)

 

Cheers,

 

GM 

[KiltedMarine]

I'm not at all averse to the idea of SW Successors- the historical Viking parallel of settlement and conquest has already been pointed out.

 

I'm going to be mightily :cuss ed off if Veteris Astartes actually just get written off in the fluff, because it's one thing to advance the timeline, but entirely another to introduce the idea of obsolescence into a setting that hasn't ever contained it.  Primaris "Jotun" marines fighting alongside the Wolves?  Sure, bring 'em on.  All Marines shifting to 2W 2A "Primaris forever" would rankle deeply.

[Filius]

 

*snip*

 

I have been keeping notes and references about all things connected to the wolves. So no "hazy blurbs" but actual information. I will start another thread so we can start fresh and, mods allowing, lay out a few rules to allow less confusion and separate fact, personal thoughts, and rumors.

 

*snip*

 

That's a great Idea. I'm curious as hell, how the fluff handled the Wolves and it certainly deserves to be an own thread, as the main topic of this one, was a pretty much pure specualtion on the meta-narrative level. Thanks in advance!

[Miru]

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned so far (Sorry, I did not read all the comments yet, but saw he title and wanted to pass this info):
 

In the "Dark Imperium" Novel a Spacewolves Successor Chapter. I think it was called "Wolfspear". 

 

Livery yet unknown, though.