The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Valdr Fell-fist]

 

Really? I missed that. That is … half-strange. On the one hand that's plausible, because they have been raised and trained by Imperial Psykers. On the other hand: The Rune-Priests and their "Kind of Magic" have been the special Snowflakes among the Psyker for so long that it would really feel weird to have a common Librarian among the Space Wolves; even for me.

The Primaris Librarian actually uses the powers from our Tempestas discipline, brother.

Which is a surprise, because iirc the blood/dark angels ones don't get their respective disciplines. So he is a rune priest in all but name, if you're that way inclined.

[Filius]

 

Really? I missed that. That is … half-strange. On the one hand that's plausible, because they have been raised and trained by Imperial Psykers. On the other hand: The Rune-Priests and their "Kind of Magic" have been the special Snowflakes among the Psyker for so long that it would really feel weird to have a common Librarian among the Space Wolves; even for me.

The Primaris Librarian actually uses the powers from our Tempestas discipline, brother.

Which is a surprise, because iirc the blood/dark angels ones don't get their respective disciplines. So he is a rune priest in all but name, if you're that way inclined.

 

 

That is especially irritating … to say the least. If it were the other way round … but that way, that's … very irritating.

[Valdr Fell-fist]

From a background point of view I agree completely. It is mother Fenris who grants her power to her sons, so how does one who-at best- was taken from his tribe ten thousand years ago, never to learn the ways of the Rout?

 

From a gaming point of view...that's an extra point of wound and attacks for what looks to me like the exact same points as a Rune Priest with a psychic hood. That's a damned good deal and makes them more than a passable combat character in my opinion.

 

The model would require a bit of work to fit into the asethetic of the Wolves obviously, but I like my wolves subtler than most.

[Splog]

As has been said by others, I'm not sure how Primaris marines should fit with the SW career/age progression. But then, the SW haven't always been that way.

 

I would have thought the best fit would be using the same army list as we have now, but any model can be 'upgraded' to a Primaris, and all the new 'Cawl' weapons made available to all; I can't see the pragmatic non-conformist wolves having improved weapons reserved for Primaris marines.

 

However, I don't think it will happen that way. So, it would be nice if each 'special' chapter got some 'special flavour' Primaris units. I'd quite like to see something like a Gravis unit all equipped with tempest hammers, and perhaps (the rumoured) flame gauntlets.

[crd26a]

As has been said by others, I'm not sure how Primaris marines should fit with the SW career/age progression. But then, the SW haven't always been that way.

 

I would have thought the best fit would be using the same army list as we have now, but any model can be 'upgraded' to a Primaris, and all the new 'Cawl' weapons made available to all; I can't see the pragmatic non-conformist wolves having improved weapons reserved for Primaris marines.

 

However, I don't think it will happen that way. So, it would be nice if each 'special' chapter got some 'special flavour' Primaris units. I'd quite like to see something like a Gravis unit all equipped with tempest hammers, and perhaps (the rumoured) flame gauntlets.

 

I see it as part this, plus part testing.  We've only seen the fluff up through the Dark Imperium book.  I'm hoping things go sideways for poster boy and the Wolf Spear find their way back to Fenris.  Maybe not all at once, but almost in rotation.  You want to be Space Wolves and call yourself that?  Come take the trial of Morkai.  If they pass (as they were from Fenrsian stock) then they survive.  Otherwise they die in the wilds like they should have to begin with.  As they grew up on the planet, they should "know" what it is like to survive there. 

 

Current roles they can keep, but in the future, they all go through the ranks, which means eventually everyone becomes a Primaris XYZ.  Builds out "true scale" models in each company, doesn't negate current models, and lets the specialty roles they are filling today become more the standard as things are filled out.  Eventually I could build a WG as X, Y, Z, etc. to a minimum and makes army building cleaner (plus modeling more streamlined).

[NightHowler]

 

 

 

 

Really? I missed that. That is … half-strange. On the one hand that's plausible, because they have been raised and trained by Imperial Psykers. On the other hand: The Rune-Priests and their "Kind of Magic" have been the special Snowflakes among the Psyker for so long that it would really feel weird to have a common Librarian among the Space Wolves; even for me. ^_^

 

The Primaris Librarian actually uses the powers from our Tempestas discipline, brother.

Which is a surprise, because iirc the blood/dark angels ones don't get their respective disciplines. So he is a rune priest in all but name, if you're that way inclined.

 

That is especially irritating … to say the least. If it were the other way round … but that way, that's … very irritating. :blink:

It seems to indicate that GW is sticking with the fluff that Rune priests are not librarians, and apparently they're implying that it's not even the training that matters - psychers from Fenris draw their power from Fenris no matter how they're trained. It's the only reason I can think of why our Primaris psychers use our psychic powers while the other chapters' Primaris librarians use the generic space marine powers.

 

If I'm right, then I like it, and if I'm wrong it makes no difference and I'll use my own head canon.

[MaveriK]

Colour scheme wise I'll be sticking to a grim dark grey for their armour. I like my Wolves gritty looking. But I'm still gonna play around with the idea of them being Jotunn (frost giants). Planning to play with the skin tone to be more ice-like thanks to Crawls unnatural tampering and being asleep in stasis.

[Brother Hellion]

Jotunn sounds like a good name for a successor chapter.

[Valerian]

 

 

 

 

 

Really? I missed that. That is … half-strange. On the one hand that's plausible, because they have been raised and trained by Imperial Psykers. On the other hand: The Rune-Priests and their "Kind of Magic" have been the special Snowflakes among the Psyker for so long that it would really feel weird to have a common Librarian among the Space Wolves; even for me. ^_^

 

The Primaris Librarian actually uses the powers from our Tempestas discipline, brother.

Which is a surprise, because iirc the blood/dark angels ones don't get their respective disciplines. So he is a rune priest in all but name, if you're that way inclined.

That is especially irritating … to say the least. If it were the other way round … but that way, that's … very irritating. :blink:

It seems to indicate that GW is sticking with the fluff that Rune priests are not librarians, and apparently they're implying that it's not even the training that matters - psychers from Fenris draw their power from Fenris no matter how they're trained. It's the only reason I can think of why our Primaris psychers use our psychic powers while the other chapters' Primaris librarians use the generic space marine powers.

 

If I'm right, then I like it, and if I'm wrong it makes no difference and I'll use my own head canon.

I think they're going to fix it for the BA and DA in the next round of FAQs. Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page guys indicated as much.

[NightHowler]

 

 

 

 

Really? I missed that. That is … half-strange. On the one hand that's plausible, because they have been raised and trained by Imperial Psykers. On the other hand: The Rune-Priests and their "Kind of Magic" have been the special Snowflakes among the Psyker for so long that it would really feel weird to have a common Librarian among the Space Wolves; even for me.

The Primaris Librarian actually uses the powers from our Tempestas discipline, brother.

Which is a surprise, because iirc the blood/dark angels ones don't get their respective disciplines. So he is a rune priest in all but name, if you're that way inclined.

That is especially irritating … to say the least. If it were the other way round … but that way, that's … very irritating.

It seems to indicate that GW is sticking with the fluff that Rune priests are not librarians, and apparently they're implying that it's not even the training that matters - psychers from Fenris draw their power from Fenris no matter how they're trained. It's the only reason I can think of why our Primaris psychers use our psychic powers while the other chapters' Primaris librarians use the generic space marine powers.

 

If I'm right, then I like it, and if I'm wrong it makes no difference and I'll use my own head canon.

I think they're going to fix it for the BA and DA in the next round of FAQs. Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page guys indicated as much.

 

Personally head canon it is then.

[Jarl Caldersson]

I just dont think Primaris Marines are ready to replace all the old marines. Lets take Salamanders, BA, and SW real quick and compare how Primaris fit into a codex, semi-codex, and non-codex compliant armies.

 

Salamanders- Well known to use flamers and meltas along with master-crafted weapons and armor. They use little to no grav or flying units as they dony work on Nocturne. Primaris have no flamer or melta troops, no mastercrafted weapon and armor. Finally all of the known tanks/transports are grav or flying.

 

BA- well known to use jump packs the hand flamers (or are they melta?) and the Sanguinary Guars us unique chaplains. The Primaris have jump units with very strict gear options.

 

SW-Fast attack melee and unique weapons and unique units. None of this is supported.

 

The other issue is currently no Transports can transport Primaris marines, making all those rhino/land raider/stormwolves useless. This kits are not cheap either.

 

Right now Primaris simply are not ready to replace the old guard. In time when more units come then maybe, but for now they are not. The option to simply upgrade old units may be key to the future, but balance will take time. Can you imagine 2 wound and 2+ WS WG with SS, combi-weapons, and melee weapons for +10 point increase? That would be devastating unit and GW must balance that out before they give us more Primaris. I actually hope we get SW specific models either true scale or Primaris, it is a great future if things go our way.

[Grimtooth]

A Primaris SW Librarian spits in the face of everything our rune priests have ever been and how they even become rune priests.

 

All librarians, in all the Chapters share the common foundation of having been formed under the Librarius Program, primarily designed and trained by Magnus and his "warrior-scholars". This is something that has been established and reinforced by the fluff time and time again. Unless GW decides to have also had Cawl take one of our rune priests back during the HH to not only select, but also train those aspirants that show the potential to become rune priest selectees, then they are not rune priests and frankly no different than any other librarian. Librarians training and philosophy are in direct opposition to that of the teachings of our rune priests.

 

Regarding the previous point about Aggressors filling the niche between Devs and Centurions; Primaris units seem to be doing a lot of niche filling. For SW in particular, Hellblasters and Intercessors fit nicely between our GH/BC and our Long Fangs by delivering 30" supporting fire to either the front or back line when needed. Not to mention that the Repulsor weapon load outs seem to fit into the same niche as their transports.

 

With TWC toned down a bit and the boost to Swift/Sky Claws, Inceptors make a nice drop and pop support unit for this fast assault units so they are not completely overwhelmed by close enemy supporting fire.

 

Haven't seen everything on Reivers yet, but if they can help our carapace armored scouts with "uncloaking" support in assault, that is another niche filled by a Primaris Unit.

[Filius]

I just dont think Primaris Marines are ready to replace all the old marines. Lets take Salamanders, BA, and SW real quick and compare how Primaris fit into a codex, semi-codex, and non-codex compliant armies.

 

Salamanders- Well known to use flamers and meltas along with master-crafted weapons and armor. They use little to no grav or flying units as they dony work on Nocturne. Primaris have no flamer or melta troops, no mastercrafted weapon and armor. Finally all of the known tanks/transports are grav or flying.

 

BA- well known to use jump packs the hand flamers (or are they melta?) and the Sanguinary Guars us unique chaplains. The Primaris have jump units with very strict gear options.

 

SW-Fast attack melee and unique weapons and unique units. None of this is supported.

 

The other issue is currently no Transports can transport Primaris marines, making all those rhino/land raider/stormwolves useless. This kits are not cheap either.

 

Right now Primaris simply are not ready to replace the old guard. In time when more units come then maybe, but for now they are not. The option to simply upgrade old units may be key to the future, but balance will take time. Can you imagine 2 wound and 2+ WS WG with SS, combi-weapons, and melee weapons for +10 point increase? That would be devastating unit and GW must balance that out before they give us more Primaris. I actually hope we get SW specific models either true scale or Primaris, it is a great future if things go our way.

 

Totally right! Just one Sidenote: What's with the Rhino Primaris on Page 47 of Index: Imperium 1? It can certainly transport Primaris and it reads like it would be just a Variant of the Rhino, which means, you could use all your Rhino-Minis for that Unit. But I am not sure about it … maybe someone elese is …  Edit: Sorry! I overread the "cannot". I really shoudl know better, as I try to avoid mistake with my Kids all the time: "Do not jump on the Sofa!" is in my kids' ears "Do jump on the Sofa!". The "not" is just to tiny to notice it …

 

I'm not sure yet, wether your Arguments lead to the conclusion that we will keep the pre-primaris Units and that Games Workshop will extend that part of the Product Line when they are "through" with the first Wave of Primaris. I'm also not sure, where all of this is really heading. But I am also not sure, wether it is really worth to discuss that now. Maybe we should really wait half a year, take a look at the Publications for Christmas, judge then and until then have fun with, what we have been given  … and try to make at least a bit sense of it, fluff-wise.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Filius

[Jarl Caldersson]

Its a forgeworld model that was named before the primaris marines were made. Bad naming on GW half.

[Filius]

Its a forgeworld model that was named before the primaris marines were made. Bad naming on GW half.

 

Plus: It cannot transport Primaris. I overread the "cannot", and edited my post above accordingly. Sorry for the trouble!

[Gherrick]

Regarding Primaris marines, why are we assuming so much about when people were actually selected? Has the timeline been established of when the recruits where actually picked? Cawl has been working for 10k years, sure, but that doesn't mean every candidate was selected that long ago. It could have easily taking him 9.8k of those 10k years to just figure out a workable method, then start "recruiting" within the last century or so.

 

It could also be that the SW Primaris Rune Priests are simply RPs that have undergone the "primaris upgrade". Is there real evidence that Primaris Rune Priests are using the same psyker techniques as other librarians? Couldn't it be that the training of our RPs incuded the Fenrisian connection for their psyker abilities, and are not necessarily repainted SM Libbies?

[Jarl Caldersson]

Regarding Primaris marines, why are we assuming so much about when people were actually selected? Has the timeline been established of when the recruits where actually picked? Cawl has been working for 10k years, sure, but that doesn't mean every candidate was selected that long ago. It could have easily taking him 9.8k of those 10k years to just figure out a workable method, then start "recruiting" within the last century or so.

 

It could also be that the SW Primaris Rune Priests are simply RPs that have undergone the "primaris upgrade". Is there real evidence that Primaris Rune Priests are using the same psyker techniques as other librarians? Couldn't it be that the training of our RPs incuded the Fenrisian connection for their psyker abilities, and are not necessarily repainted SM Libbies?

Yes we know when the recruits were picked up.Yes we know when the candidates were selected. They were on Guillimans command post HH and pre-Guilliman becoming a meat-cicle. It states the candidates were selected during this time.

 

Yes the RP could be librarians but the Wolf Spear are not on Fenris. The Wolf Spear recruit from another planet that isnt Fenris, therefore lack any connection to Fenris and thus no RP's in the future. Instead they would be using normal psykers which is not allowed by the SW's.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

I just dont think Primaris Marines are ready to replace all the old marines. Lets take Salamanders, BA, and SW real quick and compare how Primaris fit into a codex, semi-codex, and non-codex compliant armies.

Salamanders- Well known to use flamers and meltas along with master-crafted weapons and armor. They use little to no grav or flying units as they dony work on Nocturne. Primaris have no flamer or melta troops, no mastercrafted weapon and armor. Finally all of the known tanks/transports are grav or flying.

BA- well known to use jump packs the hand flamers (or are they melta?) and the Sanguinary Guars us unique chaplains. The Primaris have jump units with very strict gear options.

SW-Fast attack melee and unique weapons and unique units. None of this is supported.

The other issue is currently no Transports can transport Primaris marines, making all those rhino/land raider/stormwolves useless. This kits are not cheap either.

Right now Primaris simply are not ready to replace the old guard. In time when more units come then maybe, but for now they are not. The option to simply upgrade old units may be key to the future, but balance will take time. Can you imagine 2 wound and 2+ WS WG with SS, combi-weapons, and melee weapons for +10 point increase? That would be devastating unit and GW must balance that out before they give us more Primaris. I actually hope we get SW specific models either true scale or Primaris, it is a great future if things go our way.

 

 

Totally right! Just one Sidenote: What's with the Rhino Primaris on Page 47 of Index: Imperium 1? It can certainly transport Primaris and it reads like it would be just a Variant of the Rhino, which means, you could use all your Rhino-Minis for that Unit. But I am not sure about it … maybe someone elese is …  Edit: Sorry! I overread the "cannot". I really shoudl know better, as I try to avoid mistake with my Kids all the time: "Do not jump on the Sofa!" is in my kids' ears "Do jump on the Sofa!". The "not" is just to tiny to notice it … :D

 

I'm not sure yet, wether your Arguments lead to the conclusion that we will keep the pre-primaris Units and that Games Workshop will extend that part of the Product Line when they are "through" with the first Wave of Primaris. I'm also not sure, where all of this is really heading. But I am also not sure, wether it is really worth to discuss that now. Maybe we should really wait half a year, take a look at the Publications for Christmas, judge then and until then have fun with, what we have been given  … and try to make at least a bit sense of it, fluff-wise. ^_^

My point is simple: Primaris can not replace the old guard right now. We must wait and see what the future holds and as you said, it is best to wait for more releases later this year. Primaris as they are now cannot stand on their own, but the old guard can.

 

From my personal view, it is unclear ad murky what direction GW is going.

[Garreck]

From my personal view, it is unclear ad murky what direction GW is going.

 

Definitely agree. 

 

In what may be a classic case of confirmation bias, I feel the murkiness is the best evidence that they will ultimately (not soon) make Primaris the single supported marine line.  Their current approach allows them to continue to truthfully claim "all of your old marines are still legit."  The whole strategy for the Primaris release seems to be hinged on delaying the need to say "yeah, Primaris are the new marines."

 

In my unprovable theory, one day we wake up in a world where clear Primaris successors to Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Codex Space Marines have been steadily established (in the hopes of appealing to/retaining legacy players of those armies) and then GW announces they won't be adding new legacy marine content.  They might even continue to release condensed "indexes" summarizing those armies units and keeping them up to date with current core rules...but nothing fresh or new.

[Deadnaughty]

 

 

I just dont think Primaris Marines are ready to replace all the old marines. Lets take Salamanders, BA, and SW real quick and compare how Primaris fit into a codex, semi-codex, and non-codex compliant armies.

Salamanders- Well known to use flamers and meltas along with master-crafted weapons and armor. They use little to no grav or flying units as they dony work on Nocturne. Primaris have no flamer or melta troops, no mastercrafted weapon and armor. Finally all of the known tanks/transports are grav or flying.

BA- well known to use jump packs the hand flamers (or are they melta?) and the Sanguinary Guars us unique chaplains. The Primaris have jump units with very strict gear options.

SW-Fast attack melee and unique weapons and unique units. None of this is supported.

The other issue is currently no Transports can transport Primaris marines, making all those rhino/land raider/stormwolves useless. This kits are not cheap either.

Right now Primaris simply are not ready to replace the old guard. In time when more units come then maybe, but for now they are not. The option to simply upgrade old units may be key to the future, but balance will take time. Can you imagine 2 wound and 2+ WS WG with SS, combi-weapons, and melee weapons for +10 point increase? That would be devastating unit and GW must balance that out before they give us more Primaris. I actually hope we get SW specific models either true scale or Primaris, it is a great future if things go our way.

 

Totally right! Just one Sidenote: What's with the Rhino Primaris on Page 47 of Index: Imperium 1? It can certainly transport Primaris and it reads like it would be just a Variant of the Rhino, which means, you could use all your Rhino-Minis for that Unit. But I am not sure about it … maybe someone elese is …  Edit: Sorry! I overread the "cannot". I really shoudl know better, as I try to avoid mistake with my Kids all the time: "Do not jump on the Sofa!" is in my kids' ears "Do jump on the Sofa!". The "not" is just to tiny to notice it …

 

I'm not sure yet, wether your Arguments lead to the conclusion that we will keep the pre-primaris Units and that Games Workshop will extend that part of the Product Line when they are "through" with the first Wave of Primaris. I'm also not sure, where all of this is really heading. But I am also not sure, wether it is really worth to discuss that now. Maybe we should really wait half a year, take a look at the Publications for Christmas, judge then and until then have fun with, what we have been given  … and try to make at least a bit sense of it, fluff-wise.

My point is simple: Primaris can not replace the old guard right now. We must wait and see what the future holds and as you said, it is best to wait for more releases later this year. Primaris as they are now cannot stand on their own, but the old guard can.

 

From my personal view, it is unclear ad murky what direction GW is going.

 

The best point of reference we have is imo Age of Sigmar.

In which case we will see 0 normal/old marine models released from now on and over the coming year we will see an entire Primaris army pushed out.

[Dantay VI]

It dos not ovrly worry me, as I am going to be cannibalising my existing Space WOlves to upgrade my HH stuff anyways... Mainly heads and the odd axe. Will replace with helms so I can run my 40K hunters etc as 30K Slayers :D

[Wolf in the Shadows]

If the primaris were selected just after the HH thinking of having Bjorn or one of the ancient ones recognise the returning candidates as long lost brothers and ones that can tell the 'newer' members of the rout how it used to be.

[Grimtooth]

If the primaris were selected just after the HH thinking of having Bjorn or one of the ancient ones recognise the returning candidates as long lost brothers and ones that can tell the 'newer' members of the rout how it used to be.

Except the Primaris know nothing about how the Rout used to be since if they were taken by Cawl as Fenrisian Aspirants, they never did anything with the Rout. Nothing indicates they were ever inducted into the Legion other than them being selected to become Wolves but then being whisked away for a 10000 year nap.

[Triszin]

Ramses relax, wait until the books and lore come out. I understand the worry and doom and gloom but it's okay. I suspect there's more to this, after all 13th co are reportedly able to enter titan prison cells and abduct witnesses who saw them. Maybe they snuck in and taught em, all speculation but there's a million possibilities! And when the lore doesn't work subjugated it and implement your own!

[munocat]

I run deathwolves, fluffy made teams based on the information from codexes, curse of Wolfen and the painting guide. There is no primeris marines in the deathwolves.