The Primaris Ultramarine

[IronDrake28]

I'm going to only get a few squads, maybe the dread whenever it comes out. I'm just using them an allied detachment. I think I'll paint them as Novamarines, as I've always loved that scheme and never got around to painting it. Edited May 24, 2017 by IronDrake28

[phoenix01]

I'm planning on cycling out some of my older third company Marines in favor of the new Primaris. Those cycled out will be either repainted as second company or broken down for placement into the reserve companies as necessary (sixth, eighth, and ninth).

 

I'm wondering if the Codex limitations are being lifted. By that I mean are we still dealing with Codex Astartes planned 1000 man chapters with one 100 man veteran company, four 100-man battle companies, two 100-man reserve tactical companies, one 100-man reserve assault company, one 100-man reserve devastator company, and one however-many-you-have-man scout company. Will we still have 10-man squads as a maximum?

[Brother Captain Ed]

 

I'm wondering if the Codex limitations are being lifted. By that I mean are we still dealing with Codex Astartes planned 1000 man chapters with one 100 man veteran company, four 100-man battle companies, two 100-man reserve tactical companies, one 100-man reserve assault company, one 100-man reserve devastator company, and one however-many-you-have-man scout company. Will we still have 10-man squads as a maximum?

 

I don't know about individual squads, but I am getting the strong impression that the days of full strength chapters are no more.  The limit may be in place, it may not...but it doesn't matter because no one will ever sit at it again.  The bit about the Cicatrix Maledictum says that EVERY world in the Imperium is now engaged in some fashion with either the xenos powers or the Great Enemy.  With a million active battlefields across the stars, no chapter is possibly resting and growing.

[Jonny Roxtar]

I love these new Primaris Marines, but my Ultras wont be getting any.

They seem like they will play totally diferently from a normal Marine chapter and I want to explore that with a new Army, so I want a new Marine army of Primaris only. I will wait and see what the new chapters they mentioned look like. If i dont like the look of any of them ihave 2 options.

1. Go Novamarines (great minds, IronDrake )

2. If they have cool bikes, I`ll be going White Scars.

[phoenix01]

 

 

I'm wondering if the Codex limitations are being lifted. By that I mean are we still dealing with Codex Astartes planned 1000 man chapters with one 100 man veteran company, four 100-man battle companies, two 100-man reserve tactical companies, one 100-man reserve assault company, one 100-man reserve devastator company, and one however-many-you-have-man scout company. Will we still have 10-man squads as a maximum?

 

I don't know about individual squads, but I am getting the strong impression that the days of full strength chapters are no more.  The limit may be in place, it may not...but it doesn't matter because no one will ever sit at it again.  The bit about the Cicatrix Maledictum says that EVERY world in the Imperium is now engaged in some fashion with either the xenos powers or the Great Enemy.  With a million active battlefields across the stars, no chapter is possibly resting and growing.

 

Well, with the speed in which the Primaris Astartes are being generated compared to normal Astartes, I imagine the days of full strength chapters to the galactic south of the Cicatrix Maledictum would be at the greatest since the days of the Great Crusade. Consider that from the events of the return of Lord Guilliman to the "birth" of the first Primaris Astartes is maybe a few months as compared to the decade long process of making a normal Astartes. I'm sure that Lord Guilliman would ensure that his own sons at least would be to full strength at the onset of the new Indomitus Crusade. What would likely be a limiting factor to getting the Primaris to the battlefield would be the production of new Mark X power armor and Cawl pattern bolt rifles and other weapons and equipment.

 

But I'm curious if Lord Guilliman is relaxing the post-Heresy Codex pattern to resemble something more like the legion setup from the Great Crusade. The Hellblaster Devestator squad with all special weapons seems to reflect a loosening of the Codex.

[Prot]

Edit first post to add the Inceptor squad and Gravis Captain.

[Joukernaut]

I don't exactly know how this works, but it seems a bit weird to me that the gravis captain can't change any of his weapons according to the datasheet.

I really like the fist, but I would have loved to give him one of those new jump packs.

I'll be getting the new box and my friend who plays deathguard will as well.

So I'll have a very decent amount of primaris marines right away.

If only I was a quick painter.....

[Seahawk]

Unfortunatley, this is the way 40k is going: monopose models with no weapon options. It's far less cost for a company to produce a figure that is just one way only, and then provide rules for it. Is it regression to 2nd edition or earlier? Yes, even though there is far more detail per model. As mentioned elsewhere, the Primaris marines are going to be the ultimate "noob" army, in that they'll be super easy to build and play with, greater for beginners.

 

That being said, I'm thinking Inceptors will be a decent addition to any army. Swift and exceedingly shooty, basically you treat them like more mobile heavy bolter centurions that can hit in combat if need be. Like an assault squad that's better suited to supporting a gunline army.

[Frater Cornelius]

I wonder if Primaris will get their own tank or if the Marine one will be the universal model.

[Prot]

I guess the Inceptor's won't have the 'fly' ability? Or could it be part of the jump infantry rule? It would be cool if they did because their weapons are pretty short range and I think they're going to be heavily targeted by assault units that will try to use them to crawl up to your main lines.... 

 

But if they had "fly", my understanding is that they could simply leave close combat and fire normally. 

 

I'm a fan of all of this stuff. I do like the models, and one of my favorite things is that I really don't feel that my 'normal' marines are being invalidated at this point. I see room for both marine types. I can see some games I probably will try full Primaris... maybe with Guilliman. Some games no Primaris will be involved, and for all I know those are the games Guilliman is better used in?

 

I agree about the static loadouts, however this is the 2 player set, and I think it's pretty normal right now to see that. 

[Seahawk]

Inceptors have the Fly keyword, so of course they do! They can deepstrike turn 1 wherever you need them so they can unload at least once before dying. Then they have a move of 10", on top of the Fly bonuses. Still wonder what the jump pack keyword entails.

 

Right now I see a place for the Inceptors and the Captain/Hellblasters noob toob combo, but regular primaris just don't fit in other than as a Troops tax filler.

 

Remember, it's not just these models that are monopose. Also are:

 

- The Primarchs

- All clam-pack generic characters, of which every army has some

- Kill-team Cassius

- Ogryns/variants

- Custodes

- Sisters of Silence

- Electropriests

- Tzaangors

- Plague cultists

- Plaguebearers

- Bloodletters

- Horrors

- Wracks

- Mandrakes

- Grotesques

- Most of the Genestealer Cults range

 

For some of them, maybe it would look too silly to be multi-part posable dudes. The problem is that so many peoples' armies and models are just all same same same, due to the lack of customizability. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Seahawk

[Prot]

Most of that list makes sense to me. I hope that isn't the case with all the Primaris stuff for obvious reasons. I guess I'll always have my Deathwatch for posing articulation if the Primaris are mono pose.

 

But then again unless this is a very slight preview on the full Primaris release, I really don't envision using tons of them. Especially as you note the troop ones. They're so vanilla it hurts.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Well, the Primaris style redemptor Dread video is out.... guess that's it for the closet o' Dreadnoughts I hoped to use this edition. Lol

Edited May 27, 2017 by Prot

[phoenix01]

I'm wondering if the Codex limitations are being lifted. By that I mean are we still dealing with Codex Astartes planned 1000 man chapters with one 100 man veteran company, four 100-man battle companies, two 100-man reserve tactical companies, one 100-man reserve assault company, one 100-man reserve devastator company, and one however-many-you-have-man scout company. Will we still have 10-man squads as a maximum?

I don't know about individual squads, but I am getting the strong impression that the days of full strength chapters are no more. The limit may be in place, it may not...but it doesn't matter because no one will ever sit at it again. The bit about the Cicatrix Maledictum says that EVERY world in the Imperium is now engaged in some fashion with either the xenos powers or the Great Enemy. With a million active battlefields across the stars, no chapter is possibly resting and growing.

Well, with the speed in which the Primaris Astartes are being generated compared to normal Astartes, I imagine the days of full strength chapters to the galactic south of the Cicatrix Maledictum would be at the greatest since the days of the Great Crusade. Consider that from the events of the return of Lord Guilliman to the "birth" of the first Primaris Astartes is maybe a few months as compared to the decade long process of making a normal Astartes. I'm sure that Lord Guilliman would ensure that his own sons at least would be to full strength at the onset of the new Indomitus Crusade. What would likely be a limiting factor to getting the Primaris to the battlefield would be the production of new Mark X power armor and Cawl pattern bolt rifles and other weapons and equipment.

But I'm curious if Lord Guilliman is relaxing the post-Heresy Codex pattern to resemble something more like the legion setup from the Great Crusade. The Hellblaster Devestator squad with all special weapons seems to reflect a loosening of the Codex.

These images might hint an answer my question.

Note the Primaris in the corner; his tactical squad designation is XII.

That one has a tactical squad designation of XI.

So, more than ten squads in a company. Granted that Primaris are limited to five men per squad, but it looks like things may be changing in the Codex Astartes.

[ShVagYeR]

Wow, kudos for spotting that. I was wondering how Primaris would fit into the Company structure. Now it seems that they went the minimum impact way so that if you have a full company painted with codex markings, you can still add Primaris to that same company without having to change squad numbers. I like it and I'm eager to know more.

[Frater Cornelius]

A friend and myself have been testing Primaris. We played 1000pts or Tyranids vs Primaris with the new Repulsor (treating the gatling like a twin-HB and doing the points according to the power level). The result was... disappointing. The game was carried by the re-rolls of the Captain and the other HQ guy. The Hellblasters did a very good job against the Monsters. However, Primaris are simply bad. They are too low model count, no bubble wrap within their own faction, their transport is too expensive for mass usage and they themselves are tough, but every lost model hurts a lot. And they will die with the high amount of multi-damage weapons around. Tyrands simply swarmed me and the only reason I won (with one model remaining) is the 4+ D3 MW from the Repulsor in melee.

 

But the worst offense? They are simply... boring. All carry the same typ of gun, no customization and too few models to take them seriously. There is no reason to not take Sternguard with Combi-Plasmas instead of Hellblasters and no reason to take Preds instead of the Repulsor if you need LC. Tacs are almost always better than Primaris (the old Paladin vs Termiantor debate, more weapons always trumps durability up to a certain point that Primaris do not reach). I do not see a viable army at 2000, no matter what they get. When you are paying between 45 and 75ppm for models that actually do something (no, Intercessors do not do anything noteworthy), you can not build an army that can stand its ground when all you have is Marines with more wounds.

 

There is yet hope with the Dread and more special rules once they get characters and a codex. However, for me the hope is slim. I may like the look and style they offer, but on the table I see no reason to not use miniMarines.

[Prot]

Wow. Thanks for the info.

 

I know this sounds a tad self serving, but this is pretty much exactly how I was reading them on paper. I saw them as cool looking (to me), but aside from the captain I really saw zero threat to the existing Astartes. To me there was no way the extra wound and toughness was going to carry these guys, especially with such vanilla load outs. If those changes were going to be strong, I wouldn't have to watch so much complaining over Paladins in the GK forum, ( yes, I know you use them! Just speaking generally)

 

That is exactly why I saw no threat to old school lists of marines working with Guilliman in a competitive environment.

 

All of that being said there is one thing that disappoints me about your assessment.... that they are 'boring'. While I never thought they were going to be strong, I really hoped they would be fun!

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Frater Cornelius]

They are different. That is it. Mind you, I was slightly agitated, despite winning the game, so I may have across a bit negative and critical. Those problems are real though.

 

Instead, let me say what would fix it. First, I do not think the tank will be 300, more like 220-250. Second, the Dread will be very useful, if gou bunch up your dudes behind him, so he can block melee threats. Next, psychic support that can enter the Repulsor, meaning Primaris Characters. Lastly, squad sizes. After testing things some more, the alpha strike is real. Lascannons will break your mech. Primaris can use the advantage of low model count to always go first. 2 units of 10 Intercessors would be far better.

 

They remind me of Stormcast. Monopose starter box and thus very limited rules, hinging on unplayability. Then they got their real boxes and things got far better. So yes, I believe everything I mentioned above is coming. I may whine a bit, but I will wait until they get their boxes and book before I make my final judgement. Right now I say they are alright, if somewhat lacking, but with an optimistic outlook :)

[Prot]

So do you think the Primaris rules will actually change upon a proper release?

 

I don't really know anything about the new Dread or the new tank but I'm really hoping that they add some punch to the Primaris because quite honestly I wanted to play them instead of painting more vanilla marines. Again to me they look really cool.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I hope you give them another shot.

[Ordo Machinum]

Wow, kudos for spotting that. I was wondering how Primaris would fit into the Company structure. Now it seems that they went the minimum impact way so that if you have a full company painted with codex markings, you can still add Primaris to that same company without having to change squad numbers. I like it and I'm eager to know more.

 

Couldn't it be:

 

1 two-lieutenant HQ unit

12 five-marine intercessor TAC units

6 three-marine inceptor ASLT units

4 five-marine hellblaster HVY units

------------------------------

100 Primaris

Edited June 4, 2017 by Rashbold

[stuanor]

Did they mention if there are one or two more Primaris units coming out? If the Primaris marines are meant to "interlock" with the other space marine units, a very Gulliman trait and method of warfare, what new unit types could be brought in, perhaps a breacher unit to assist the JPA and the terminator units?

[Frater Cornelius]

So do you think the Primaris rules will actually change upon a proper release?

 

I don't really know anything about the new Dread or the new tank but I'm really hoping that they add some punch to the Primaris because quite honestly I wanted to play them instead of painting more vanilla marines. Again to me they look really cool.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I hope you give them another shot.

Well, change is the wrong word. They will become what they were designed to become. I wouldn't put much stock in the current rules seeing as they are based on monopose models from the box.

 

Having said that, I do hope they will receive their own publication (like being included in the Warzone Ultramar with the Deathguard) and not stay part of the Marine lineup. That would be annoying to say the least.

[Ishagu]

I think the basic Intercessor is too expensive. Yes they have two wounds, but they aren't as useful as two separate Marines which only cost a marginal ammount more.

[Redrandy93]

I like the models and pre ordered the box set from my local store on Long island.       

[OrkPlayer137]

 

Wow, kudos for spotting that. I was wondering how Primaris would fit into the Company structure. Now it seems that they went the minimum impact way so that if you have a full company painted with codex markings, you can still add Primaris to that same company without having to change squad numbers. I like it and I'm eager to know more.

 

Couldn't it be:

 

1 two-lieutenant HQ unit

12 five-marine intercessor TAC units

6 three-marine inceptor ASLT units

4 five-marine hellblaster HVY units

------------------------------

100 Primaris

 

I thought it would be like this too, but curiously the squad numbers on the transfers in the box are (for the Ultramarines): 3, 6, 9, 11, 13 

And for the Dark Angels: 

1, 2, 8, 10, 16 

 

Which means none of them are appropriate for the Hellblasters in that configuration, as they would need to be numbered 19-22.

 

Perhaps the answer is that some companies are mixed - presumably the 3rd company is now all Primaris because of the Warhammer Fest photos showing Intercessors numbered 11 and 12, but other companies are likely reinforced with Primaris only when replacements are required. There could then be a company with mixed numbering a bit like this to explain how the transfers in the box fit in:

1-2 Tactictal 

3-6 Intercessor 

7-8 Tactical 

9-11 Inceptor 

12 Assault 

13-16 Hellblaster 

(no devastators) 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Curiously, the new miniatures in GW's photos (Ultramarines Second Company painted by Eavy Metal) appear to have been painted without the new transfer sheet - they are numbered 8 for Inceptor and 10 for Hellblaster, just like the old numbering, which doesn't fit with the new smaller squads. I imagine that they made a mistake there....

 

I hope that there is more clarity on this at or shortly after the release, or else it won't be possible to finish the new models with decals until Codex Space Marines is available.

Edited June 9, 2017 by OrkPlayer137

[Confused Word Bearer]

If they give me a Primaris Telion and Primaris Scouts, I will be all over them. I do like their models, however.