Die for the Emperor, or die trying - AM 8th Index review

[duz_]

Folks, Vendettas have been out of the Imperial Guard codex ever since it became Astra Militarum several years ago (I can't even remember, was it 2015? 2014?).

Forge World has said they will be releasing data slates for all of their models before the end of June.

Being upset over Vendettas not being in the index is like being upset that Death Korps of Krieg aren't in there. You've needed forgeworld to field those rules for years. So nothing has changed. I think FW may have even said their data slates will be free but don't quote me on that. Not to worry, as long as they're still selling Vendetta kits there will be rules.

They're actually in the most recent codex we have and were also mentioned in the Montka formations too

They only time they've been neglected recently was Death From the Skies

Either way they will come back one way or another

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

They're actually in the most recent codex we have and were also mentioned in the Montka formations too

They only time they've been neglected recently was Death From the Skies

Either way they will come back one way or another

I stand corrected, there they are.

I guess I'm getting senile in my old age, because I definitely thought they were not in the codex and even remembered people being upset about their ommission. I guess it was their omission from Death From the Skies that people were upset about and I misremembered.

[Plasmablasts]

I certainly wouldn't be too surprised if they repackage the Valkyrie with an upgrade sprue for the Vendetta (and some new variants perhaps) eventually.

[Brother Talarian]

An additional points to consider when fielding armor, due to the sheer amount of CP we're likely to have we can re-roll some of our dmg/hit rolls of D6. This has the potential to swing some dmg in our favour. 

 

This point was brought up on Warhammer TV. The example given was the battle cannon, compared to the Lascannon. D6 hits D3 dmg. Roll low for your hits? (1-2) Re-roll for a chance to roll higher.

 

I thought this could be pretty cool, especially as guard players where we can abuse some re-rolls. 

[Lord Marshal]

I'm wondering if it's worth investing - real life dosh - in some Mortars now. I've always loved the idea of them, but I've never had a reason to really field 'em in years now.

[H311fi5h]

I'm wondering if it's worth investing - real life dosh - in some Mortars now. I've always loved the idea of them, but I've never had a reason to really field 'em in years now.

 

Mortars are dirt cheap in bitz shops. Just get some bases and two dudes and you should get mortar teams for ~2 bucks.

[micahwc]

10 scions with 4 plasma guns and combi plasma deep strike 9" away from a target. They rapid fire plasma and put 10 st7 shots into a target. Seems pretty nasty.

 

Edit: tempestor cant take combi plasma so only 8 plasma shots, still. Nice.

[Brother Talarian]

10 scions with 4 plasma guns and combi plasma deep strike 9" away from a target. They rapid fire plasma and put 10 st7 shots into a target. Seems pretty nasty.

 

Edit: tempestor cant take combi plasma so only 8 plasma shots, still. Nice.

 

Get yourself a commander in there for the orders as well ;) supercharged plasma.

 

I forget if the scion commander can provide orders.. presumably he can.

[WarriorFish]

Best bit about the mortars is that they don't need to share any bits, so you can assemble them in addition to another HWT - you just need a base and more Guardsmen :D

[Withershadow]

Super heavies and Stormtroopers are much better.

 

Chimeras are a worse transport than a Taurox, unless you need room for support units.

 

For example, an infantry squad, 2 support squads, a commissar and a commander can all fit in two Rhinos, and you have 2 orders and battleshock mitigation.

[duz_]

Given you can no longer shoot from vehicles I would say Taroux is the better unit for transporting standard 10 man squads.

Unless you really want the fire power of a chimera or the 2 extra bodies I don't think the difference in durability is reason alone.

 

Fortunately that works for me as I like the Taroux models. :)

[Withershadow]

3. Units

Master of Ordnance (HQ)

A single Character.

Verdict: Meh - quite disappointing due to his minimum range limitation (come on, artillery has lost that! Why hasn't he?!), but still valuable in some artillery-heavy armies.

Command Squad (Elite)

Verdict: Good - despite their limits, I guess they are a convenient choice. Best used as a cheap tiny boost to nearby units or as a suicide squad. In the former case, give them only 1-2 among vox, medic, and standard, and nothing else. In the latter, give them 4x plasma/melta and, likely, a transport. They become a point sink if tooled up more than this.

Ogryns remain pretty useless (as does poor Nork Deddog).

Heavy Weapons Squad (Heavy)

Still there. 3 teams.

Verdict: Meh - a missed opportunity. Yes, they are not too bad. Yes, they are better than in the previous codex, but only seem worth it if you really spam them. Could be funny, but I don't like the concept.

Tempestor Prime (HQ)

Militarum Tempestor Scions (Troops)

​​Verdict: Interesting - these are now your proper elite BS 3+ infantry. I'm not sure that having them as Troops makes complete sense, but MT players are people too. MT are short-range specialists, that can now hurt almost all infantry due to the new AP mechanic. I'd go safely with volleyguns and plasma in their squads, basically filling the gap left by the Vets. Or, give them melta and mount them on their remarkable transport...

Ratlings (Elite)

Close, but no cygar.

Verdict: Not convinced - a 5-ratling unit is very cheap and might achieve something, with some luck. Still, with most character now having 3-4 wounds or more, I don't think we can rely on standard sniper rifles that much. Maybe try to concentrate fire from more units.

Master of Ordnance is expensive at 38 points, I am not sure if he's ever worth it. Opportunities to shoot at 36"+ will be limited, so you're likely paying that much for two one-time-use abilities. The only advisor that really seems interesting is the Astropath for his save buff, but since you can't run mega character-loaded units anymore, not sure how useful this will be. Still, Bullgryns with a 1+ armor save may be a thing. The Officer of the Fleet will be useful once we get Vendettas and Vultures.

I like the Command Squads, especially with their support gear (medipack, vox, standard). For weapons I'd probably just leave them off to keep them cheap and unnoticeable. Since my command squad models are Kriegsmen, I will probably cough up the 4 points for a pair of sniper rifles (company sharpshooters).

Nork is also great to my eye. He is a solid close combat fighter with 6 attacks when charging, and dealing multiple wounds with each attack. You can set up a daisy chain with Kell and Nork to basically give creed a bunch of extra hit points (that you then heal as needed with the medipack).

12 points for the base heavy weapon squad seems amazing to me. 57 points for three autocannons, 27 points for three mortars! Although they are still squishy at T3, they are more likely to get use out of that second wound than before, unless your opponent likes wasting heavy firepower on such cheap units. They don't even really care about leadership that much. If you lose one heavy weapon platform, you need a 6 on the battleshock test to lose a second one, leaving the remaining one fearless. If you lose two platforms, you only lose the unit on a 5+, again leaving the remaining one fearless otherwise. You can spam the crap out of these, and slots aren't really a concern with the new detachment system. The only potential concern are victory points. All in all, I think this is a great unit to shove into buildings and fortifications.

Stormtroopers are amazing now. I would take all the plasma guns and bring a Prime to command them.

Prime, power fist, command rod - 50

10x Stormtroopers, 4x plasma-guns, 4x hotshots, vox caster, Sgt with axe/ppistol - 133 points

10x Stormtroopers, as above - 133 points

311 points that can appear anywhere you want 9.1" away from the enemy, and unload with 18 BS3+ plasma shots re-rolling 1s. You could even risk the overcharged profile. You should land 14 hits on average, which is enough to kill 9 Primaris if overcharging. That's not counting the 8 hotshot lasguns or the potential 3D6 hits from the Prime's and vox operators' grenades.

Ratlings I think are also better than they seem at first on the damage output (average 3 wounds and 1 mortal wound vs a T4 target, which is deadly for support units like Commissars), but their morale is awful. Having a commissar nearby will defeat the purpose of their special deployment. They are probably not worth burning command points over to keep in play.

Speaking of snipers, the Vindicare seems pretty great. Only one shot, but ignores cover, ignores invulnerable, wounds all infantry on 2+, rending -3, and D3 wounds (D6 on a roll of 6). All for less than 100 points. I have 3-4 assassins of each Clade, I am going to try to run a Vanguard detachment with like 12 assassins. You have been sanctioned!

I am really excited to see the FW Index.

1. Siege Engineers and Hades drills - gotta find a good use for those vet models, because vets are really bad now!

2. Crewed artillery - curious how they will handle this since multi-profile units are pretty much gone.

3. Death Riders - the base guys are actually quite interesting to me, so I am hoping the Death Korps really turns it up a notch.

[micahwc]

I imagine you could run your vets as alternate scions, storm troopers from a different regiment.

[Feral_80]

Updated the first post with some second thoughts and feedback from the discussion. Things start to get better after a test game I've done, also.

I'm still a bit in doubt about the Valkyrie grav-chutes, however.

 

Also, I found some of the Baneblade variants rule puzzling: some can embark X models, and X/2 can fire from the top. However, heavy weapons team count as 2 models for the embarking rule. Do you think this means that they do *not* count as 2 when firing out?

[duz_]

Embarking != Firing

 

Given bulky USRs are gone I'd say it counts as two for capacity requirements but only 1 for firing.

 

As for the Valk if it counts as disembarking as opposed to deep strike then I would say they can still move normally. Unless this happens at the end of the movement phase in which case its more hazy.

[Withershadow]

Keep in mind that a model gets to fire all of its weapons, so a heavy weapon team can fire both the lasgun and the heavy weapon, while counting as a single model that is firing.

[Gothical]

I posted this in the other 8th ed thread, but the post is relevant to units in this review:

 

It has occurred to me that Valkyires are pretty amazing, if somewhat expensive by the standards of Russes/Predators etc.

 

Hellstrikes are no longer one-use and hit as hard as a Vanquisher Cannon and you can have a Lascannon in the nose for further AT punch.

 

Rocket Pods and Heavy Bolters really shine though, especially since you can shoot all your guns at any one target visible to any part of the model, so those door gunners can hit the same target now (pilots learned to pivot at last) - this means you can put down 8-18 S5 AP-1 shots in a single turn (averaging 13 shots).

 

Now, BS4+ is as mediocre as ever  - and it might even be 5+ due to all weapons being Heavy plus having a minimum move distance. I had heard Fly over-rides restriction but not seen it anywhere myself nor seen it mentioned since.

 

The solution is the Officer of the Fleet, who allows the Valkyrie to re-roll 1s at targets within 18" of the Officer. This might be hard to engineer with minimum move distances, but here's the clever part. The Strafing Co-Ordinates rule is measured at the start of the shooting phase, not at the start of the turn. The Valkyrie can carry 12 models and has a unique deployment method to move and then disembark the passengers. This means that you can deliver a full squad (in my case Veterans) to where you want them AND drop off the Officer at the same time to pick out your chosen target for the accuracy boost for the lovely guns on the Valk.

 

It's really quite tough too, especially when it is not hovering and has Airborne and Hard to Hit active and on top of that it has the toughness of a Dreadnought and more wounds than a Leman Russ!

[Kierdale]

Door gunners :tu:

 

"If they run they're a cultist. If they stand still, they're a well-trained cultist!"

[Shamansky]

And where is Sly?

[Harrowmaster]

Not in the book

[RedGabe]

Chimeras not being amphibious!? And no shooting from the combat hatches!? Noooo!

Thank you Feral_80 for the most excellent review! Much appreciated. Very informative, well written and a few laughs. Thanks.

[Sentinel Guy]

Valkyrie missiles are no longer single shot as far as I can tell. That's a boost.

[Truesight]

So I've been looking at the Shadowsword.  It has some interesting changes that I think change the way it's played.  The new steel behemoth rule and its attacks means it actually wants to be in combat, and honestly, is pretty damn terrifying when in it.  It can fire all its weapons even in the midst of melee, volcano cannon and lascannons at other targets (any targets) and 8 heavy flamers at the poor sods being grinded under its tracks (average of 9 dead marines a turn for the flamers and d3 damage tracks to grind out monsters).  Speaking of the volcano cannon, this thing is ridiculous.  It can one shot a knight quite easily. Save your reroll for the shots and enjoy the bonus to hit and reroll wounds against anything dangerous the enemy is fielding.

 

Add a primaris psyker to improve its save and an enginseer to repair it and you have a vehicle that is T8 2+ with 26 wounds that regenerate d3 per round. 

 

It is expensive, 644 with 4 sponsons of lascannon and twin heavy flamers, but I honestly think it could be worth it now.

[Tallarn Commander]

Kierdale, nice quote.

 

When I'm advancing IG squads in urban terrain and they are getting picked off by enemy fire it sometimes teminds me of that film's depiction of Hue. :)

[Otto von Bludd]

 

Chimeras are a worse transport than a Taurox, unless you need room for support units.

 

 

 

Well you will need support units for your squads, so that is a big point in the Chimera's favour, but I think the Chimera is still our best transport for a number of reasons.  Remember your transport is going to be moving so your Taurox is going to hit on 5s.  So will your Chimera, but give that Chimera x2 Heavy Flamers and it is now a completely different beast.  Not only is it tougher, which is a big deal for a transport, but it is much more deadly at close range (which is where your transports will be most of the time) and will help to protect your Gaurdsmen from melee.  I still really cant see a reason to take a Taurox to be honest.  It carries less, it's weaker, and it is stuck hitting on 5s most of the game.

 

Remember, turn 1 charges are not an uncommon thing now.  We have to find ways to prepare for that and I think the Heavy Flamer is going to be our premier melee deterrent and defense. Chimeras are going to be great for the close quarters battles we are going to be seeing.