First game in 8th (Long post)

[shanewatts]

Greetings all, so I played my first game in 8th edition today. We played a 2k game using the No Mercy mission (the new purge the alien mission.) My opponent played daemons + csm and I played pure deathwatch. Here is a quick army breakdown:

 

DW (Battalion detachment)

Watchmaster x 2

5 vets with combi-meltas in a pod

5 vets with combi-plasma in a pod

solo biker

solo biker

corvus w/twin assault cannon, 2xblackstar missile, halo launcher

corvus w/twin assault cannon, 2xblackstar missile, halo launcher

kill team in corvus w/2xfrag, blackshield w/th/ss, 1 th/ss term, 1 vanguard, 1 biker w/power axe

kill team in corvus w/2xfrag, blackshield w/th/ss, 1 th/ss term, 1 vanguard, 1 biker w/power axe

(all vets have chainsword as second weapon)

 

Chaos (Battalion detachment) (not sure he had 2 hqs after the fact)

GUO

15ish seekers w/champ, musician

15ish plaguebearers

6 bloodcrushers w/champ

4 fiends

8 plague marines w/2xplasma in a rhino

6 plague marines w/2xmelta in a rhino

10 zerkers w/chain axes in a rhino

6 havocs w/4xauto cannon

 

He won the roll off to choose deployment type and side. He chose dawn of war and the side he was on already. This means I deploy the first unit, and looking at all the fast units I determined I needed to split him up. I split my deployment, 1 biker and corvus in each of my corners, as out of LOS as possible. He deployed as centrally as possible. Since I finished deploying first I got the first turn. (He failed to seize.)

 

Turn 1

I chose to wait on my pods, so I moved both corvus' along the board edge and moved the bikers out enough to be at max range to shoot. I was able to cull 3 fiends and 3 seekers (they were on opposite sides.)

 

His turn 1 he advanced with mostly everything, except the rhinos and havocs. His GUO put 3 mortal wounds on a corvus with smite, the havocs put a couple wounds on the same one. His seekers successfully charged the solo biker (advanced 17 inches {3+14} and made the 7 inch charge) and deleted it (first blood.)

 

Turn 2

I chose to bring in the pods this turn (at the end of the movement phase), the damaged corvus with seekers all around it flew over to the other side of the table with the rest of my army. (He had maneuvered the seekers, zerkers, GUO, and plaguebearers all that direction.) I dumped out the other kill team and moved the corvus aggressively past the bloodcrushers. The kill team moved close to the plasma rhino and bloodcrushers. Dropped both pods around 12" away from his army, in support of the kill team. My shooting phase killed 4 of the bloodcrushers, the last fiend, and a bunch of wounds from the plasma rhino. Kill team and solo biker charged the rhino and bloodcrushers, took the rhino down to 1 wound and the bloodcrushers down to just the champ with 1 wound remaining. His champs attacks dealt 3 wounds at -3 and 3 at -1, I chose to take saves on the term, who died from it. Both of us passed morale, my killteam and his bloodcrusher.

 

His turn 2, both squads of plague marines dumped out as close as possible to the kill team, and most of the rest of his army was forced to advance to try and get into the fight from the opposite table side. The GUO did another 3 mortal wounds to a corvus with smite. Most of his shooting was forced to shoot the corvus' as they were the only targets in range and LOS that wern't in combat. He charged with both squads of plague marines into the killteam. At this point, he swings with all the plague marines and managed to kill a few marines. Then he gets to choose one of his squads to fight since it is his turn, he chooses the bloodcrusher champ, who kills the rest of the unit (I literally made zero saves in this combat, and should have re-rolled one of the storm shield saves vs -3.)

 

Turn 3

I dump out the 2nd kill team close to the seekers and out of LOS from the rest of his army. I move one corvus over to the lonely havocs, the other over the plague marines. My solo biker in combat with the rhino falls back (who can still charge!) Both sets of vets with combis moves within 12 of both squads of plague marines. (The watch masters behind them.) My shooting phase kills the rhino with 1 wound, all the plague marines, the kill team takes the seekers down to 2 remaining, and the havocs lose a couple. The kill team finishes off the seekers in assault, the solo biker kamikazes the bloodcrusher who somehow made 8 saves in the shooting phase and dies to the bloodcrusher. I make the mistake of deciding to charge the GUO with my corvus, and it gets destroyed.

 

His turn 3, the plaguebearers and GUO get closer to the combis, the empty melta rhino moves closer as well, the zerkers continue to reposition, the bloodcrusher gets real close to combis. The GUO deals 6 mortal wounds with smite (rolled an 11 on the check, and a 6 for d6 wounds) to the melta combis. A plasma combi dies to bolter fire from the rhino. Both corvus are low on wounds. The solo bloodcrusher assaults the plasma combis and kills 3 more, my solo vet does nothing in combat, and passes morale.

 

Turn 4

The semi out of position kill team moves to get some LOS to shoot, the 2 solo watchmasters position to assault the bloodcrusher, both corvus go to hover, one positions in front of the GUO, the solo vet falls back. The corvus by the havocs kills the rest, the bloodcrusher dies to shooting from the watchmasters, empty melta rhino takes a few wounds from corvus. One watchmaster assaults the rhino and deals another wound.

 

His turn, the plague bearers and GUO move close to the watchmaster and rhino, the zerkers dump out and move close to the corvus that killed the havocs. GUO deals 3 mortal wounds with smite to the solo vet (poor guy.) GUO and plaguebearers assault watchmaster, zerkers assault corvus. The plaguebearers were ineffectual, the GUO destroys the watchmaster (takes like 9 wounds {3d6}.) The zerkers kill the corvus, and consolidate semi behind their rhino.

 

Turn 5

Kill team moves to max range and semi LOS on the zerkers, solo watchmaster moves closer to the plague bearers. A couple pf plague bearers die to shooting, and then a couple more when the watchmaster assaults them (zero zerkers die to shooting.)

 

His turn 5, zerkers advance towards the kill team, rhino moves with them. GUO moves close to the watchmaster. GUO deals 2 mortal wounds with smite to a drop pod. Rhino shoots the kill team to no effect. Rhino charges kill team, GUO charges watchmaster. The rhino takes some wounds, GUO destroys watchmaster (slay warlord.) He rolls a 5 to see if the game goes to 6.

 

Turn 6

Kill team falls back from rhino, positions close to zerkers and rhino. Kill team kills all but 1 zerker in shooting (mostly from frag cannons.) Kill team charges zerker and rhino, kills the zerker, takes the rhino down to 2 wounds.

 

His turn, rhino falls back, GUO and plaguebearers move to pods. The GUO deals 3 mortal wounds to a pod with smite. The plaguebearers charge the wounded pod and fail to hurt it, the GUO smashes the other pod. I roll a 3 to see if the game goes to 7, end of game.

 

Results:

Him: 11pts (9 units killed + slay + first blood)

Me : 8pts (8 units killed)

 

Lessons learned:

 

Pods - As much as their new cost sucks, tactically they still bring a lot to the table. Being able to choose when they come in was super helpful, it allowed me to put all of my army in one place to hit his weakest side. Not being in range for the meltas to deal extra damage sucked, but it still was pretty effective.

 

Combis - Holy hell combis are stupid good right now, 5 combi-plasmas with re-rolls to hit (10 2+ poision rounds and 10 plasma shots within 12" is crazy.) Not sure how much I like melta vs plasma right now, needs more testing.

 

Frag Cannons - Still good, both kill teams did serious work with the frag cannons. Coming out of a corvus allows them an effective threat range of 17" with the frag shot, it worked crazy well. I don't think they will be as effective coming out of a drop pod at this point though.

 

Kill teams - Being able to fall back and shoot/charge is strong, my opponent tried to lock me down with a rhino, only to watch it backfire. With the current costs of the add on units I am not sure what the best load out is at this point, but I think they will continue to be effective, as long as they have a transport.

 

Transports - It feels like 5th ed all over again, every transport (including rhinos) made it to their destination before death. Granted I didn't focus the rhinos right away, but I dunno, again needs more data.

 

SIA - 2+ poisoned rounds are strong, with most shooting attacks wounding on 3+-5+ it really adds some quantity of wounds dealt that we are lacking in bodies (if only they worked on vehicles.)

 

Melee - I think this edition will have a lot more successful close combat armies, his one bloodcrusher champion killed so many marines (it was maddening.)

 

If you all have any questions let me know.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

I honestly never expected the Deathwatch to win based on the Chaos list your friend fielded. I am glad however that your Deathwatch put up quite a fight for you to manage to catch up to him by a bit. Wouldn't it have been better if you replaced one Watch Master with Artemis, though? 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Ordo Xenos Inquisitor

[Vel'Cona]

Good information, here!  It'll be interesting to see how 8th edition evolves as players grind through the new rules, but I did have a hunch that combi-weapons and transports would become much more relevant.  As for melee, it's not something players can ignore anymore as it can deal serious damage and is harder to shut down than before, though retreating does create some interesting tactical situations.

[shanewatts]

I honestly never expected the Deathwatch to win based on the Chaos list your friend fielded. I am glad however that your Deathwatch put up quite a fight for you to manage to catch up to him by a bit. Wouldn't it have been better if you replaced one Watch Master with Artemis, though? 

 

Maybe, the main reason I took Watchmasters was for the re-roll hits vs re-roll 1s (Artemis/Watch Captain.)

[Prot]

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback on your game...

 

 

Lessons learned:

 

Pods - As much as their new cost sucks, tactically they still bring a lot to the table. Being able to choose when they come in was super helpful, it allowed me to put all of my army in one place to hit his weakest side. Not being in range for the meltas to deal extra damage sucked, but it still was pretty effective.

 

Combis - Holy hell combis are stupid good right now, 5 combi-plasmas with re-rolls to hit (10 2+ poision rounds and 10 plasma shots within 12" is crazy.) Not sure how much I like melta vs plasma right now, needs more testing.

 

Frag Cannons - Still good, both kill teams did serious work with the frag cannons. Coming out of a corvus allows them an effective threat range of 17" with the frag shot, it worked crazy well. I don't think they will be as effective coming out of a drop pod at this point though.

 

 

 

Frag Cannons don't seem quite as important, do they? I pretty much sold myself on Combi's with the new rules, combined with SIA and rerolling to hit.

 

Your thoughts on the pods are interesting...  Honestly I wrote them off after the costs, and the fact you can never actually get them within 9" on the drop canceling a few strong prospects. (In fact I thought I misunderstood pods because of that fact).

 

One thing though... I would most certainly try to include a Psyker in my lists. Mortal wounds are just too punishing. Tau, etc have to take the psychic phase but it's much more turned down now, and aside from a few select armies I do feel like having even one defensive psyker actually makes a difference in 8th compared to 7th.

 

So what was your favorite unit/model? 

[shanewatts]

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback on your game...

Frag Cannons don't seem quite as important, do they? I pretty much sold myself on Combi's with the new rules, combined with SIA and rerolling to hit.

 

Your thoughts on the pods are interesting...  Honestly I wrote them off after the costs, and the fact you can never actually get them within 9" on the drop canceling a few strong prospects. (In fact I thought I misunderstood pods because of that fact).

 

One thing though... I would most certainly try to include a Psyker in my lists. Mortal wounds are just too punishing. Tau, etc have to take the psychic phase but it's much more turned down now, and aside from a few select armies I do feel like having even one defensive psyker actually makes a difference in 8th compared to 7th.

 

So what was your favorite unit/model? 

 

As for the frags, 4d6 auto hits that wound on 3+ at -1 ap was pretty nice.

 

A libby for some psychic defense might have been nice, not sure about em yet.

 

Favorite unit.... prolly the Corvus, at least from this game. The mobility was huge for making the kill teams effective, and the shooting was drastically improved as well. Oh and the bomb dealing mortal wounds was pretty cool, was very excited to see bombs actually have an effect on the game.

[Prot]

hehe.. yea the Corvus.... From reading your batrep I was thinking, 'Yes! Corvus should rock this edition!!'

 

I feel like the Deathwatch missing out on the Primaris stuff seems inconsequential. Would you agree? Or too soon to say?

[shanewatts]

hehe.. yea the Corvus.... From reading your batrep I was thinking, 'Yes! Corvus should rock this edition!!'

 

I feel like the Deathwatch missing out on the Primaris stuff seems inconsequential. Would you agree? Or too soon to say?

 

If not for the fact I am buying the box set, I am not sure I would ever use Primaris marines. They don't really seem to jump off the page. So chalking it up to not a loss. Since they have wierd bolt weapons they wouldn't really get SIA anyway, unless it got changed.

[Moostick]

Nice. Good to see combis really are turning out to be our sauce. Hopefully GW doesn't see this as unintended and take away our SIA with combis.

 

Any regrets on taking 2 Corvuses? Seems like a huge investment to bring 2.

 

Did you find high AP or drowning them in low AP wounds to be more efficient?

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Nice. Good to see combis really are turning out to be our sauce. Hopefully GW doesn't see this as unintended and take away our SIA with combis.

 

Any regrets on taking 2 Corvuses? Seems like a huge investment to bring 2.

 

Did you find high AP or drowning them in low AP wounds to be more efficient?

 

The only GW would do that is if they treated combi-weapons as a weapon separate from the boltgun and the special weapon. 

[shanewatts]

Nice. Good to see combis really are turning out to be our sauce. Hopefully GW doesn't see this as unintended and take away our SIA with combis.

 

Any regrets on taking 2 Corvuses? Seems like a huge investment to bring 2.

 

Did you find high AP or drowning them in low AP wounds to be more efficient?

 

Really happy with 2 Corvuses, allows us to bring a true kill team in a transport. Only other option will be a land raider without a biker. A land raider crusader will carry a larger team, (still only 10 models) but costs more, and is less mobile. I think 3 might be too much, but I will probably try it soon.

 

As far as AP, I found both quantity and quality to be effective, truly depended on the target.

[Moostick]

 

Really happy with 2 Corvuses, allows us to bring a true kill team in a transport. Only other option will be a land raider without a biker. A land raider crusader will carry a larger team, (still only 10 models) but costs more, and is less mobile. I think 3 might be too much, but I will probably try it soon.

 

As far as AP, I found both quantity and quality to be effective, truly depended on the target.

 

 

Three Corvuses?! I'm hesitating to bring even one. Is there a rule somewhere outside the datasheets (in the rule book?) that say transports are limited to 10 models? It'll change my plans for the Corvus and LRC if there is.

[shanewatts]

 

 

Really happy with 2 Corvuses, allows us to bring a true kill team in a transport. Only other option will be a land raider without a biker. A land raider crusader will carry a larger team, (still only 10 models) but costs more, and is less mobile. I think 3 might be too much, but I will probably try it soon.

 

As far as AP, I found both quantity and quality to be effective, truly depended on the target.

 

 

Three Corvuses?! I'm hesitating to bring even one. Is there a rule somewhere outside the datasheets (in the rule book?) that say transports are limited to 10 models? It'll change my plans for the Corvus and LRC if there is.

 

 

The Corvus can hold 12 models, but the Kill team is limited to 10 models regardless of type.

[Vel'Cona]

The reason for extra capacity is for mixed teams/character inclusion.  It needn't go to waste if you go for some of the excellent character synergies or Kill Team special rules (the Vanguard Veteran granting semi-"Fly" to the Kill Team is HUGE).

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

 

 

 

Really happy with 2 Corvuses, allows us to bring a true kill team in a transport. Only other option will be a land raider without a biker. A land raider crusader will carry a larger team, (still only 10 models) but costs more, and is less mobile. I think 3 might be too much, but I will probably try it soon.

 

As far as AP, I found both quantity and quality to be effective, truly depended on the target.

 

 

Three Corvuses?! I'm hesitating to bring even one. Is there a rule somewhere outside the datasheets (in the rule book?) that say transports are limited to 10 models? It'll change my plans for the Corvus and LRC if there is.

 

 

The Corvus can hold 12 models, but the Kill team is limited to 10 models regardless of type.

 

 

A Terminator Captain or Librarian could probably fill the final slot.

[Silas7]

I'd have to say you really could have used some defensive psyker support, that GUO was smiting your guys left and right!

[Boyadventurer]

Wait a sec, how were you taking solo bikers?

[Master Avoghai]

Pods - As much as their new cost sucks, tactically they still bring a lot to the table. Being able to choose when they come in was super helpful, it allowed me to put all of my army in one place to hit his weakest side. Not being in range for the meltas to deal extra damage sucked, but it still was pretty effective.

If nor mistaken, you can declare you advance during your movement phase once you deployed from the pod in order to be in range. The drawback is that you'llhit on 4+ but can be worth the extra risk..

 

Also Now with power weapon being cheaper I'm wondering 2 things

 

- are they worth being include on a few vets for extra damage in CC?

- combined with the bonus jumpack now give, are vanguards now the new hype?

 

 

Finally, having played against a vehicle heavy army I.m wondering if plasma pistol or fusion pistol won't be also a compulsory option in a few squads... :unsure:

[shanewatts]

Wait a sec, how were you taking solo bikers?

 

Bikers, Terms, and Vanguard can be taken in units from 1-5. In the points cost section for Deathwatch.

[shanewatts]

 

Pods - As much as their new cost sucks, tactically they still bring a lot to the table. Being able to choose when they come in was super helpful, it allowed me to put all of my army in one place to hit his weakest side. Not being in range for the meltas to deal extra damage sucked, but it still was pretty effective.

If nor mistaken, you can declare you advance during your movement phase once you deployed from the pod in order to be in range. The drawback is that you'llhit on 4+ but can be worth the extra risk..

 

Also Now with power weapon being cheaper I'm wondering 2 things

 

- are they worth being include on a few vets for extra damage in CC?

- combined with the bonus jumpack now give, are vanguards now the new hype?

 

 

Finally, having played against a vehicle heavy army I.m wondering if plasma pistol or fusion pistol won't be also a compulsory option in a few squads...

 

 

You can't advance when arriving from Reinforcements, so no go on that coming out of the pod.

 

I am not super sold on power weapons on regular vets, chainswords extra attack was nice. I certainly like a Thunder hammer or 2 though (on a black shield and sergeant for extra attack.)

 

I am concerned with dealing with a vehicle heavy army for certain, not sure the solution to that yet.

[Boyadventurer]

 

Wait a sec, how were you taking solo bikers?

 

Bikers, Terms, and Vanguard can be taken in units from 1-5. In the points cost section for Deathwatch.

 

I think that's just there for when you're taking one for a Kill Team. On their specific datasheets it's units of 5 (3 for the bikes).

[Moostick]

 

 

Wait a sec, how were you taking solo bikers?

 

Bikers, Terms, and Vanguard can be taken in units from 1-5. In the points cost section for Deathwatch.

 

I think that's just there for when you're taking one for a Kill Team. On their specific datasheets it's units of 5 (3 for the bikes).

 

I made the same assumption, but I was corrected. The page you're referring to is for Narrative Play using Power Level. The page for matched play which he is referring to is noted below. As things stand, Terms/Vanguard/Bikes are limited to unit sizes of 1-5. Also what I was talking about when I said how Deathwatch Kill Teams in matched play does not say it needs 5 Veterans; they should have put 5-10 next to Veterans, and 0-5 on the other models.

 

Because seeing is believing (most of the time)

 

Edit: Before the pitch forks come out - no I am not advocating you try and use Kill Teams without Veterans as legal because that would be clearly abusive.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Moostick

[Boyadventurer]

WHOA, damn that's good. I guess they say that under the datasheet or matched play rules?

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

I'd play it as the datasheet overrules the appendix, so I won't be taking single model units.

[Silas7]

Veteranless kill teams seems like a perfectly plausible tactic when the DW are tailoring the KT for a specific alien/task to crush/secure. FAQ is going to have to reassure some things to make sure RAW is RAI, but when in doubt talk to your buddy if they mind before models hit the table.