The 8th Edition Learning Curve with Astra Militarum

[Rob40k]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry for the radio silence, as said above, I’ve been away and it turns out Wales doesn’t have phone signal haha. But, as you’re reading this, I’m back baby!!! And ready to start playing 40k again, in fact a good friend of mine is on his way over for a day of gaming tomorrow!

 

We’ve agreed a 2000pt limit as he preps for a big event here in the UK in a few weeks time. Shame I’m not able to go!! :(

 

Today, I want to share the list I’ve been working on! One good thing with having no signal is that I’ve had an unbiased look at Astra Militarum, so, this is my list, I’m sure I will have missed something obvious! So please, please point it out! It’s very spammy, I know, but, I want the list to be efficient as possible.

 

So without further delay, here is my 2000pt list!! :)

 

Battalion Detachment: Astra Militarum

HQ1: Company Commander = 30  

HQ2: Company Commander = 30  

HQ3: Company Commander = 30  

Troop1: Militarum Tempestus Scions: 2 Plasmaguns, 2 Hotshot Lasguns, Plasma Pistol = 66

Troop2: 30x Conscripts = 90

Troop3: 30x Conscripts = 90

Elite1: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite2: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite3: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite4: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite5: Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns = 72

Elite6: Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns = 72

Fast1: 5x Rough Riders: 3 Hunting Lances, 2 Flamers = 60

Fast2: 5x Rough Riders: 3 Hunting Lances, 2 Flamers = 60

Transport1: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

Transport2: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

Transport3: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

 

Vanguard Detachment: Astra Militarum

HQ4: Tempestor Prime: Command Rod = 40

HQ5: Tempestor Prime: Command Rod = 40

Elite7: Tempestus Command Squad: 4x Meltaguns = 84

Elite8: Tempestus Command Squad: 4x Plasmaguns = 64

Elite9: Tempestus Command Squad: 4x Plasmaguns = 64

Elite10: Tempestus Command Squad: 4x Plasmaguns = 64

Elite11: Commissar: Bolt Pistol = 31

 

Spearhead Detachment: Astra Militarum

HQ6: Yarrick = 130

HQ7: Creed = 70

Heavy1: Manticore: Heavy Bolter = 133

Heavy2: Heavy Weapons Team: 3 Lascannons = 72

Heavy3: Heavy Weapons Team: 3 Lascannons = 72

 

Total: 1999

 

Tactics are pretty simple!

 

Conscripts screen the static shooting elements of the list, Yarrick and Creed buff the Manticore, Heavy Weapon Teams and the Conscripts, while the Company Commanders join the Command Squads in the Chimeras which are the aggressive enemy killing units, with the Tempestus units deep striking in to cause havoc. Rough Riders have 1 of 2 jobs to do which is to either act as counter assault, or outflank and flamer the enemies backfield units.

 

On paper and in my head, at least, this list works. Its VERY glass hammer, which I like. It seems to hit hard, with 31 Plasma Weapons, 12 Meltaguns, 6 Lascannons to name but a few special weapons!

 

Thoughts and opinions wanted/needed?

 

My opponent is running Orks, I have no idea what he’s running, it’s a new army to him! So this should be fun! :)

 

Battle report to follow asap! 

[Tallarn Commander]

Your list looks to be quite good as is. With all those chimeras and command squads you have an impressive amount of mobile firepower.

 

I do have one suggestion, consider changing your battalion over to a brigade for the extra command points. They sure do come in handy. You could do this by:

 

1. Moving the spearhead detachment units over to your main detachment.

 

2. Dropping Creed and one of your company command squads, you already have plenty of orders.

 

3. Adding a 3rd fast attack, perhaps a cheap sentinel to escort your Chimeras.

 

4. Convert both conscript blobs to 6 infantry squads with lasguns and give each squad a flamer. This will give you enough troops for the brigade. Conscripts might not last too long against mobs of boyz, whereas MSU style IG might last longer.

 

Just food for thought.

[Rob40k]

Yoooooo!!!

 

So, its been a while... so.. err yeah. I have no excuse bar work being busy, new born twins and me being tired in the evening oh and I've only played 2 more games.. sorry guys.

 

But fear not, I am back!!!

 

With a tournament around the corner, its that time again, thats right, another army list. But first, going back a couple of weeks. I played 2 games of 8^th edition.

 

So I took the list above (on page1).

 

Both games were against an Ork army with a mix of things, from memory: Maukanaught, 2x Trukks, Lootaz in Battle Wagons and Tank Busters with 30 Grotz and 5x 5 Kommandoz, with Big Mekk on bike and 2x Warbosses on bikes.

 

Game1 I ended up losing, quite badly. I made some huuugggee mistakes, even in a friendly game we had a no take back agreement.. I lost track of turns and ended up keeping my reserves off the table until turn 4!!??

 

I stole the initative, but in reality I only had the manticore in range.. so that was a waist of a turn and was the reason I lost track of turns.

 

I made loads of positional mistakes, blocking in Yarrick and Creed so issues if Aura's became a huge problem.

 

In the end I was nearly tabled...

 

So, we set up again

 

Game2: This one went MUCH better, the previous game I trapped my own Chimeras, this game was much better with the Command squads doing much better, Plasma was awesome, Chimeras did a lot of work, not being reduced to much by taking damage with Heavy Flamers felt great.

 

My target priority was much better, using 2 waves of command squads, the first with Melta taking out 2 Trukks, then turn2 the Plasma coming down to kill the key enemy units.

 

I did however, make some more mistakes, I deployed the Manticore as one of the first units???? So my opponent who kept his Tank Busters back, set up opposite and wrecked the Manticore in one volley. (Dawn of War deployment).

 

In the end, a narrow victory. But, the list needs a lot of work and with the new FAQ taking away the ability to spam Command squads. Which makes sense!!

 

So back to the drawing board I went, coming up with this list:

 

**Regiment: Catachan

 

Battalion Detachment:

Company Commander (30) Plasma Pistol (5) Power Maul (4) [39]**

Company Commander (30) Plasma Pistol (5) Power Maul (4) [39]**

Yarrick [130]

 

Platoon Squad (40) Flamer (7) Heavy Bolter (8) Plasma Pistol (5) [60]**

Platoon Squad (40) Flamer (7) Heavy Bolter (8) Plasma Pistol (5) [60]**

Platoon Squad (40) Flamer (7) Heavy Bolter (8) [55]**

Tempestus Scions (45) 2 Hotshot Lasguns (2) Plasma Pistol (5) 2 Plasmaguns (14) [66]

Tempestus Scions (45) 2 Hotshot Lasguns (2) Plasma Pistol (5) 2 Plasmaguns (14) [66]

Tempestus Scions (45) 2 Hotshot Lasguns (2) Plasma Pistol (5) 2 Plasmaguns (14) [66]

 

Command Squad (24) 4 Plasmaguns (28) [52]**

Command Squad (24) 4 Plasmaguns (28) [52]**

Sergeant Harker [50]**

 

Manticore (125) Heavy Bolter (8) [133]**

 

Chimera (75) 2 Heavy Flamers (34) [109]**

Taurox Prime (60) Taurox Gatling Cannon (18) 2 Autocannons (30) Storm Bolter (2) [110]

Taurox Prime (60) Taurox Gatling Cannon (18) 2 Autocannons (30) Storm Bolter (2) [110]

 

Vanguard Detachment:

Tempestor Prime (40) Command Rod (0) [40]

Tempestor Prime (40) Command Rod (0) [40]

 

20x Conscripts [60]**

 

Tempestus Command Squad (36) 4 Plasmaguns (28) [64]

Tempestus Command Squad (36) 4 Plasmaguns (28) [64]

Commissar (30) Bolt Pistol (1) [31]**

 

Spearhead Detachment:

Tempestor Prime (40) Command Rod (0) [40]

 

Tempestus Command Squad (36) 4 Plasmaguns (28) [64]

 

Heavy Weapons Team (12) 3 Mortars (15) [27]**

Heavy Weapons Team (12) 3 Mortars (15) [27]**

Heavy Weapons Team (12) 3 Mortars (15) [27]**

Heavy Weapons Team (12) 3 Heavy Bolters (24) [36]**

Heavy Weapons Team (12) 3 Heavy Bolters (24) [36]**

2x Hyrdas (230) 2x Hydra Quad Autocannons (0) 2 Heavy Bolters (16) [246]**

 

Total: 1999

 

So a few things to note, I'm not 100% sold on Hydras, I like them in theory, with lots of Flyers (and Fly keyword) around, but, BS3+ is better (Taurox Prime) as it hits everything on 3's... But I don't have the models and wont until next month, so I need something as a quick fix for the tournament.

 

I could drop the Hydras for a Veteran squad in a Chimera. Thoughts on this?

 

Or Special Weapons teams? - probably with flamers as they're BS4+.. :'(

 

With the drop in Command squads, Scions are the next best thing so thats why they're in.

 

I really struggled for range anti-infantry, Grots were a massive pain, I didn't want to waste Plasma Shots at them and Conscripts did nothing but block a charge and act as area denial for the Kommandoz. Which isn't a bad thing. But, I want more.

 

So, Platoon squads are IN! Hitting on 4's seem MUCH better, with the added Flamer and Heavy Bolter, they have the potential to do some of the lifting for the army.

 

And to help kill infantry, the Spearhead detachment, Mortars are okay, Heavy Bolters are also good. So, I'm gonna try them out!

 

Tying the army together are the characters, I feel at the moment, I have a lot of characters, maybe too many?? (8 Characters???). But I need them for Command Squads and/or have amazing abilities. But is it a case of too many and not enought bodies?

 

Yarrick and the Commissar go to the front meaning stuff wont run/die in the Moral phase, Harker at the back of the army with the Heavy Weapon Teams and the Artillary. So this gives me 2 blocks of re-rolling 1's to hit. Which seems awesome on paper.. 

 

Primes and Commanders go where ever they're needed, I can deep strike the Tempestor Primes or deploy them, Commanders most likely in the Chimera with Command squads.

 

So, there we go! What do you think?     

[WarriorFish]

Early games are where you make the mistakes to learn from, so as long as you're learning and adapting that's what counts :) Looks like a capable infantry list, you'll want lots of commanders to dish out the tasty orders for that so I think your character count is ok. Got any pictures of your games?

[Rob40k]

Early games are where you make the mistakes to learn from, so as long as you're learning and adapting that's what counts Looks like a capable infantry list, you'll want lots of commanders to dish out the tasty orders for that so I think your character count is ok. Got any pictures of your games?

Very true! 

 

No pics of these two games, we both were using proxies, so the pictures would be confusing (Grav tanks as Chimeras, Brimstones as Grots, Space Marine bikers as ork bikes to name but a few haha) 

 

Hoping for a game or two this weekend tho! As I have most of my army now, pics should be okay! 

[NatBrannigan]

I like the Hydra, there's so much with the FLY keyword about it's bound to have something to hit on a 3, and 8 Autocannon shots is nothing to be sniffed at! Of course mines been shredding Assault squads in recent weeks and won't always have such juicy targets to aim at.

 

Just sniggering looking at the costs of those heavy weapon teams... So cheap!

[Rob40k]

I like the Hydra, there's so much with the FLY keyword about it's bound to have something to hit on a 3, and 8 Autocannon shots is nothing to be sniffed at! Of course mines been shredding Assault squads in recent weeks and won't always have such juicy targets to aim at.

 

Just sniggering looking at the costs of those heavy weapon teams... So cheap!

Yeah, thats true, however, Flyers are still hit on 4's due to the -1 to hit rule :-/ 

 

Yeah, dude, those Mortar teams are CHEAP!! I also like the Heavy Bolters. I tried Lascannons, at 72pts for 3, they're okay. But I needed Anti-Infantry fire power. 

[Gen.Steiner]

Rob40k - depends on the target flyer's datasheet. Some flyers are -1 to hit but that's still 4 hits statistically with a Hydra. Have you seen the FAQ and the limit of Command Squads to 1 per officer?

[Rob40k]

Rob40k - depends on the target flyer's datasheet. Some flyers are -1 to hit but that's still 4 hits statistically with a Hydra. Have you seen the FAQ and the limit of Command Squads to 1 per officer?

Ah true, but mist flyers are -1 to hit. I think Taurox Primes are better overall, as they start at bs3+ and have much more flexible fire power.

 

Yeah, the faq hit my original army badly, but this list complies with the 1 command squad per commander. The ruling makes sense .

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, they probably are mathematically. Not as cool though ;)

Oh. Woops. I totally missed your new list. 'scuse me.

 

...

 

Well, it looks powerful, but it's definitely not a list I'd make. Also why go for three seperate Detachments rather than a single Brigade Detachment? Not enough HQ slots? What was your reasoning there? I'm curious.

[Rob40k]

 

Yeah, they probably are mathematically. Not as cool though ;)

 

Oh. Woops. I totally missed your new list. 'scuse me.

 

...

 

Well, it looks powerful, but it's definitely not a list I'd make. Also why go for three seperate Detachments rather than a single Brigade Detachment? Not enough HQ slots? What was your reasoning there? I'm curious.

 

 

No worries dude, so I had 2 practice games over the Weekend, Hydras are dropped #spoiler

 

I've not taken any fast attack choices (I'm not really impressed by anything I've seen in that force org slot), otherwise I'd be all over those 9 command pts. :)

[Rob40k]

The TO finally released the tournament rules over the weekend for next weekends tournament (15th of June).

 

3 games, 2000pts, battle forged armies. Limited to 3 detachments.

 

Missions:

Game 1 - Tactical Escalation / Spearhead Assault

Game 2 - Cleanse And Capture / Frontline Assault

Game 3 - Deadlock / Search and Destroy

 

As duplicated detachments aren't banned... I'm tweaking my list.

 

But.... first, I played 2 games over the weekend vs Ynnari Eldar and Harlequins!

 

Game1, my opponents first game of 8th edition.

 

His list was something like:

Troupe Master (Warlord) with str5 combat and a Fusion Pistol

Troupe Master (Warlord) with str5 combat and a Fusion Pistol

3x5 Troupe in Starweavers - Troupe were all armed with the Str5 -2 Ap Combat weapons and some were armed with Fusion Pistols

 

2x5 Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents with -1 to hit them upgrades and 2 Shuriken Cannons

 

10 Warp Spiders

5 Warp Spiders

5 Warp Spiders

 

2x Autarch's with Warp Jump Packs and Fusion Pistols

 

Brief thoughts on the list:

I felt that if I could use the Conscript meatshield with Infantry squads behind, I could by my Mortars, Heavy Bolters, Taurox's and Manticores enough time to whittle down the deadly but fragile Eldar. Being Ynnari was a pain, being able to Soulburst into my lines when I kill stuff would cause issues!

 

Game1: Well, things didn't go well for my opponent.

 

Obviously my opponent chose to go first, I failed to Seize, so he moved and advanced forwards with pretty much everything.

 

His shooting was more deadly than I first thought, the Warp Spiders deleted the Conscripts, then a Infantry squad thanks to Soulburst, the Wave Serpents and Starweavers killed a Heavy Bolter Weapon Team and another Infantry squad!

 

At this point, I think I'm pretty much dead!

 

The Chimera moves into Heavy flamer range of a 5 man Warp Spider unit and the Command squads jump out with a Commander, the other Commander jumps out to support the remaining infantry squad, Yarrick falls back a bit. At this point, all the deep striking Scions and Command squads come down. All the squads land 12" away from lots of targets.

 

My return fire is DEADLY, The Manticore Targets the large unit of Warp Spiders that flickerjump, but thanks to Harker and a roll of 11 shots, gets 7 hits!! This kills 6! A Heavy Bolter team kills another 2!

 

I then switch focus and target the Wave Serpents with Tempestus Command Squads both Serpents are reduced to a couple of wounds each. The remaining Mortar Teams chip away at the 5 Man Warp Spider squads. killing a couple from each squad. At this point, I start to finish stuff off. The Chimera kills the remaining 2 Warp Spiders from the larger squad, the Hydras then finish off both Wave Sepents and the Taurox Gatling cannons kill the Fire Dragons with the Autocannons stripping a couple of Wounds from each Starweaver.

 

Finally remaining Scions finish off a Starweaver and the inside! Finally the Infantry squad kills the rest of 2 units of Warp Spiders with some good rolling to finish of a squad with shooting and a charge into combat finishing off the 2 man squad infront of them.

 

This left 2 command squads to tackle a Starweaver, both had to combine fire to kill that.

 

At this point my opponent had 2 Autarch's 2 Troupe Masters and 5 Harlequins.

 

So we played pretty quick, the Troupe Master died to the Flamer in overwatch which was funny, 6 hits, 6 wounds and 4 failed saves!!! (even with a command re-roll)

 

In the end he was tabled turn2! Brutal!

 

Game2:

 

Went pretty much the same, he did a lot of more damage tho and took the game to turn4.

 

Basically he stayed a little further back this time and worked his way into my army, still taking out the meatshield turn1, then surviving much better due to better placement of units and better saving throws. I did little, all the Scions and Command squads dropping turn1, but only able to kill a unit of Warp Spiders and a Wave Serpent, the Manticore wrecked a Starweaver. Everything else pretty much whiffed.

 

My opponent was then able to move up and charge into my lines, using Soulbursts from killing my things. But in the end, the Mortars and Heavy Bolter teams did enough to whittle the enemy to nothing.

 

The next games for me will be the tournament next weekend.

 

But I think the list would be helped greatly by another Manticore, its fire power is deadly! and I think a Wyvern could be a good investment. The tournaments terrain is either all walls blocking LoS or no LoS blocking. These replace the Hydras! Who did okay vs lots of Fly special rule stuff, but didn't impress me enough!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Rob40k

[WarriorFish]

Great job on showing them who's boss! Remember: the only good xeno is a dead xeno ;) I'm thinking that the indirect fire options we have are pretty solid now as it means there's nowhere to hide, so if an enemy takes it slow to avoid the main gaze of your guns you can still whittle him down and if you're lucky force him to rush and make a mistake :)

[Rob40k]

Great job on showing them who's boss! Remember: the only good xeno is a dead xeno ;) I'm thinking that the indirect fire options we have are pretty solid now as it means there's nowhere to hide, so if an enemy takes it slow to avoid the main gaze of your guns you can still whittle him down and if you're lucky force him to rush and make a mistake :)

Very true, Xenos scum! ;)

 

Thats exactly how these games felt.

 

Being bum rushed was scary, to have all these nasty units in my face from turn1 was not pleasent. So being able to 1 deal with, but 2 fell like the army survived and could have survived for longer felt good.

 

As the aim of the thread is to be a source of tactics to help with the learning curve. Lets talk tactics for a quick second.

 

This goes back last edition when fighting Ynnari, my target selection was to thin the heard of Warp Spiders, but, not killing a full unit, this stops other Warp Spider units Soulbursting, then, as my opponent was still mech'd up, I could target a transport, kill it, then kill the contents, agian stopping Soulbursts as Transports cannot do it. Moving along the line. It took every gun to reduce my opponent to handful of models. But it was only turn1!!!

 

My plan had things not go well, was to use the heavy weapon teams block assaults (as best I can) to the Taurox's, then behind them went the Hydras (Although these have now been dropped for another Manticore and a Wyvern).

[Gen.Steiner]

Artillery tanks seem to be a good buy this edition.

I'm surprised you're not impressed by Hellhounds and Sentinels; I'm a big fan of the Inferno Cannon and the little chicken-legged walkers, but then again... I don't really play tournaments!

[Rob40k]

Artillery tanks seem to be a good buy this edition.

 

I'm surprised you're not impressed by Hellhounds and Sentinels; I'm a big fan of the Inferno Cannon and the little chicken-legged walkers, but then again... I don't really play tournaments!

I'm only really going on what looks good on paper to myself. 

 

Hellhounds are too random for me, D6/D3 hits isn't enough to be reliably good imo, much like Battle Cannons, they just don't look effective enough to me. I could be totally and utterly wrong. 

 

Sentinels are a good shout, I don't own the models tho, but I like where they're going. I'd use them more as a counter attacking unit, as I won't be ever going first haha! 

 

Do you arm them with Heavy Flamers and Chainswords? They look the best to me.. 

[Inquisitor Fox]

When I made a Sentinel thread here it seemed most people were going for Scout Sentinels with heavy flamer and chainsaws.  I'm not sure I'm entirely going to go that route as my intention was for them to be the heavy weapons with range for my Stormies and Inquisitorial mob, but I definitely see the appeal :)

[Gen.Steiner]

My Sentinels are almost all armed with multi-lasers to be honest. 3 shots at S6 is what I like to see. I have one with a heavy flamer, one with a rocket launcher, two autocannon armoured Sentinels and a lascannon armoured Sentinel - and the other four have multilasers.

If I was going to build another Sentinel Company I'd probably go for more multilasers! They're just a good, solid, jack-of-all-trades gun I think

[Inquisitor Fox]

I was thinking of running a unit of Scout Sentinels with multi-laser, then a unit of Armored Sentinels with autocannons.  Figured that'd give me a pretty good bunch of "heavy weapons" to support my stormies with special weapons, backed by things like DCA's and Inquisitors and other various characters, then the vehicle transports as more heavy weapons fire.  So honestly it's mostly a Militarum Tempestus army with select weird bits nowadays.

 

But yeah, Sentinels are a good, cheap source of Fast Attack since you can have them in "units" of 1 :)

[Gen.Steiner]

For a very small points investment you get three Fast Attack slots that can zoom about the board, irritating your opponent and taking Objectives, not to mention spreading some wounds about. It all helps unlock that sweet sweet Brigade Detachment.

[Withershadow]

Armoured Sentinels don't seem worth it, a lot of points for one inaccurate gun.  Scout sentinels are good due to their reposition move, which can prevent alpha strikes dropping on top of your head turn 1.  I think the loaders are the best version of them.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Withershadow

[Gen.Steiner]

Armoured sentinels are good for long-range support that can reposition rapidly and take cover more easily than a tank. Think of them as durable heavy weapon teams. Plus they give you plasma cannons!

[Withershadow]

I guess.  One with an autocannon costs as much as a full heavy weapon squad of autocannons.  From what I've seen of how damage works out in this edition, three models with 2 wounds each are more survivable than a single model with 6 wounds each.  Not sure if +2T and a 3+ save are enough to compensate for volume.  As far as cover, infantry can receive it a lot easier, since they get it from barricades or craters, and don't have to be obscured when in ruins.

 

Plasma cannons are terrible if you plan on moving them, because then you overheat on 1 or 2.  No thanks.  Ouch!

[Inquisitor Fox]

Plasma only overheats if you supercharge it, there's little to no risk if you stay on the regular strength.  Quite a lot of characters in my forces suddenly found their holstered pistol was actually a plasma pistol now ;)

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, plasma on 'standard' strength is plenty punch for most things.