Panzer Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Looks like the power creep is beginning. I don't see how existing codices are going to compete with any of this. Honestly I don't agree. The rules are strong, yes, but ultimately Death Guard will suffer from the same problems other elite armies do...low model count. It has always been a problem and nothing in 8th changed about that so far. Are they strong? Likely. Will they be broken? Nah, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Regarding the Herald, can't we just summon one in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 We will not know till the codex comes out. It is the primary reason I have not posted an analysis of their strategies and tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Looks like the power creep is beginning. I don't see how existing codices are going to compete with any of this. Honestly I don't agree. The rules are strong, yes, but ultimately Death Guard will suffer from the same problems other elite armies do...low model count. It has always been a problem and nothing in 8th changed about that so far. Are they strong? Likely. Will they be broken? Nah, I don't think so. You are correct, but please note that I said 'existing' codices, which are all also elite and low model count. I am worried that DG will be like Grey Knights were in 5th ed. It all does depend on their points costs of course. But assuming plague marines don't get much more expensive, its not looking good. Personally, I won't be sad if DG are top dog above other marines for awhile (at least until other Chapter/Legion codices come out.) But what we're seeing of their powers and stratagems is a nasty threat to the codices we already have. I'm more worried about what it says about GWs ability to write rules than I am about the actual effects on the metagame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Death Guard have pox walkers and various daemons. Yes, a small hyper-elite army focused on stacking mortal wounds will suffer against many swarm lists unless they can scalp out the morale mitigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissah Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Thanks for the answer Jeske. I know I got anti infantry covered but anti tank is always a weak point in Death Guard lists. I still know that from the years when I used to play a lot. Been out of the game for about 4 years now but coming back in with these amazing looking models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 doesn't even have to be anti tank sometimes you are going to finish something off, or plain require a model that can do melee and non anti chaff shoting without the need to be baby sited by other units[which in small point games is always a problem for elite armies], plus it is a case of target saturation lets say you want to try out a 2xshroud 1xcaster 1xtyfus 1x"normal" termis build, and dreads just fits better in to such a list at small points. Plus when the codex comes out you are going to see that from pure micro managing points point of view[if you do not happen to use power points in your games], makes the hellbrute a bit more efficient and easier to fit. Taking the drone offten in 1k pts may end up with you either not taking a pred or trying to give it bad weapons etc ah in small points dreads also make a much better "formation" with a pred then a drone that operates on its own . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 I wonder why the Herald is not included? Like...it seems like such an odd exclusion as he's a pretty vital dude if you're running Plaguebearers. So it's confirmed that DG gets everything from the index, but not everything gains disgustingly resilient. I still think Possessed have a good showing (or at least a better showing) in DG compared to regular CSM due to buffs from Contagion and the amazing Stratagems that have been shown. Being able to get those guys into the fray without any losses will be a big deal. Herald will be out because he has a different discipline. Possessed will be better in DG because their rivals aren't around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterkho Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 So let's say we want to go hardcore competitive with DeathGuard 2000 points, which units are we going to need? My initial thoughts are putting a bunch of plague marines and characters in a kharybdis droppod so you can start getting of those proximity mortal wounds straight away and backed up with drones and hell brutes in the back for fire support.. I just don't see any combination with pox walkers or footslogging working in a competitive environment or am i missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Possessed will be better in DG because their rivals aren't around. Instead they get new rivals (hopefully) tho. :P So let's say we want to go hardcore competitive with DeathGuard 2000 points, which units are we going to need? My initial thoughts are putting a bunch of plague marines and characters in a kharybdis droppod so you can start getting of those proximity mortal wounds straight away and backed up with drones and hell brutes in the back for fire support.. I just don't see any combination with pox walkers or footslogging working in a competitive environment or am i missing something? Unless you already have the Codex it's kinda impossible to say just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 So let's say we want to go hardcore competitive with DeathGuard 2000 points, which units are we going to need? A you don't play hardcore mono DG at any points, but lets assume your trying to make an as good as possible DG lists at 2K pts] B you either make a mortal wound spam list with more, shroud, terminators and support HQs[4 should fit in to 2k pts along side mort, if you keep the termis msu]. or C you make an artilery based lists with pox walkers, 2 squads of pms, 2-3 clam shells ,2-3 preds [or a mix of those, but never in a such a way that there is only one pred or one clam]. led by tyfus D if you make a "good enough" [aka not ment for tournaments, am not playing vs quad faction builds or have to worry about people spaming real top tier tournament lists AND there is no tailoring being done. a pox/cultists +pms+ knight/morty could do ok. with all the lists aside for the mortal wound spam one the list becomes a class better, if you take FW units, mix more then one codex/index. Also that feel when your kidneys say no all of the sudden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterkho Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Possessed will be better in DG because their rivals aren't around. Instead they get new rivals (hopefully) tho. So let's say we want to go hardcore competitive with DeathGuard 2000 points, which units are we going to need? My initial thoughts are putting a bunch of plague marines and characters in a kharybdis droppod so you can start getting of those proximity mortal wounds straight away and backed up with drones and hell brutes in the back for fire support.. I just don't see any combination with pox walkers or footslogging working in a competitive environment or am i missing something? Unless you already have the Codex it's kinda impossible to say just yet. this waiting is just killing me?!!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 I think the rules on the tank is going to be a big deal to how DG can be played. R&H prove that poxwalker spam could be played with massive artillery support. Will our stinky new tanks be good enough? I have no faith in plague marines however. I have already played with them several times and while durable they do not do anything else for their points cost. Disgustingly resilient will mean nothing for them when they start getting hit by multi damage weapons. Hopefully the new terminators will have a good weapon option or 2 as we know terminators are pretty decent right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterkho Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 plague marines are perfect for holding objectives. after 2 turns of shooting of 2 wyverns, taurox and some scions my 5 plague marines we're still holding it haha. but yes, their damage output is not noteworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 I kind of wish there was a bonus for taking exactly 7 Plague Marines in a unit :p Has anyone gone beyond 60 pox walkers? I always assumed trying to keep Typbus and the bell ringer in formation to buff more than that was unmanageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 A DG Hellbrute list would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Please note how awesome Leviathans are. Please note Leviathans are Helbrutes. Please note how awesome Leviathans are with Disgusting Resilience. Yeah... I kind of wish there was a bonus for taking exactly 7 Plague Marines in a unit There is. You get subtle nods of approval from those in the know. *nods sagely* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radionausea Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Please note how awesome Leviathans are. Please note Leviathans are Helbrutes. Please note how awesome Leviathans are with Disgusting Resilience. Yeah... Am I missing something? Helbrutes don't and won't get Disgustingly Resilient, it says so explicitly in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Yeah Helbrutes only get the trait which is that they can move and fire with no penalties however due to how it's worded only Helbrutes get it and not stuff with the Helbrute Keyword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Is that accurate? The Helbrute is bolded, so it's talking keyword. It's not like the stratagem which is specifically talking about the Helbrute unit entry (and is a call back to the old fire frenzy rules). Regarding DR, I could have sworn one of the stratagems or powers was something that gave a FNP to a DG/Nurgle model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikB Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Is that accurate? The Helbrute is bolded, so it's talking keyword. It's not like the stratagem which is specifically talking about the Helbrute unit entry (and is a call back to the old fire frenzy rules). Regarding DR, I could have sworn one of the stratagems or powers was something that gave a FNP to a DG/Nurgle model. Pretty sure this was FAQd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Nope Helbrute isn't highlighted like infantry which means only Helbrutes can be affected excatly like that strategem which only affect Helbrutes, probably an error that will require a FAQ/ errant but for now none of the FW dreads can gain the trait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Ah, I was just calling back to the Legion traits in the Chaos codex, which has bolded Infantry, Biker, and Helbrute units. That's something, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Wow! Suppurating Plate on a Daemon Prince looks very competitive. Without any AP, attackers will take on average take 2.5 times more wounds from the plate than they will deal in combat...and that isn't even counting the rumored Disgustingly Resilient or any warlord trait buffs! I can see competitive chaos folks cramming in a detachment of Deathguard just to bring him as a tool for dealing with hordes. One thing I find a little interesting is Autogun and Heavy Stubber cultists actually benefit from the legion trait, while CCW cultists and Poxwalkers don't at all. If they remain at 4 points, I believe they may be the best way to fill cheap troop slots and get access to more command points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 That's what I was thinking for my Plague Wing, Typhus, Plaguecaster, 2x Death Shroud Squads, 3x Cultists, Mortarion, then a Vanguard with a LoCon, 3x Grave Warden squads. Assuming points allow. That gives me 7 CP to throw around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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