Codex wishes

[Skaorn]

For me the bikes would depend on how they do it.  Isn't there old artwork with a SoB on one?  Robot horses are kind of silly as a personal form of transportation when you think about it but you could make it work with the army's crusader theme.  I could also go for jetbikes to highlight them being well funded, which was an aspect I always wanted to see more representation of.  Regular bikes I'd want significantly more to work with for a concept than just sisters on bikes though.

 

Some sort of bloodhound unit for actually tracking down mutants, heretics, and witches might be another fun fast attack option. 

[Eddie Orlock]

Some sort of bloodhound unit for actually tracking down mutants, heretics, and witches might be another fun fast attack option.

This raises a question of theme. Just how keen are we to conflate our warrior nuns with the witchhunting inquisition?

 

Now the issue with conventional cav is how to justify the power armoured weight of a trained battle sister. She might be a slender waif, but that power suit is Heavy. Perhaps a solution would be, since the ecclesiarch has more money than sense, Power Barding. Yes. Clad the steed in strength enhancing power armour.

[taikishi]

 

You mean the heavy bolter, heavy flamer and multi-melta? Which land speeders already have?

 

Didn't you just proclaim you wanted options that were LESS Marine like?

I think you could write rules for a model that isn't a marine speeder, but another fast skimmer design. I mean, tactial squads have heavy bolters heavy flamers (BA do at least) and MM, they're basic parts of the Imperium armory. I wouldn't want just the SM land speeder kit but with Sisters bits added in. It would need to be an entirely new model, preferably with a different placement/number of weapons than the SM land speeder.

 

Or Skaorn's idea. Like Skaorn said, it's all about presentation, it would have to look like a Sisters unit and not just a blinged-up land speeder.

 

Edit:

 

 

I saw your original post ;) Relax a little, I'm just poking at you -- wasn't trying to "call you out" as much as just give you a playful hard time of things is all :)

 

That said, I disagree about the land speeder thing as much because I don't think GW would make it that different. But the bikes? Black Knights have plasma guns built in, give us flamers and meltaguns! As for Skaorn's idea, I'm not sure I agree even with' presentation' because I think it would end up looking every bit as goofy as Grimar on his chariot. Then again, I'm one of those who like the more militarized look of the Forge World exorcist launcher than the original pipe organs.

 

Also, I think bikes alongside Seraphim, Dominions and Celestine (or a JP canoness) would make for a very fast, tactically flexible force.

 

I also want additional missile options for the Exorcist, which I think would set it apart from (at this point) a Leman Russ since atm it's basically a Russ without the sponsons.

[Servant of Dante]

Yeah, sorry for letting myself get a bit out of hand

 

In any case, bikes could probably be done well for Sisters, it would just take me a bit to get used to the idea. The land speeder is in the same spot. It could be done well. I should note that the Exorcist is one of my favorite GW models, period. Militaristic is good, but I like the "walking gothic cathedral" theme Sisters have, and the Exorcist just exemplifies that (and I really like the idea of singing war hymns as a choir during battle, with organ accompaniment).

 

But now I'm stuck on the idea of Power Armored Sisters riding either robot horses or horses in power-barding I want. Find a forge world, and drop piles of money on it from orbit till it happens!

Edited July 28, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Skaorn]

 

This raises a question of theme. Just how keen are we to conflate our warrior nuns with the witchhunting inquisition?

 

 

This would probably more for rooting out mutants and heretics then for tracking down psykers in my mind, so I think it could be a useful tool to a witchhunter to call on but not something they'd really need for their own regular forces.  Part of my thinking is what would be scary to face when dealing with psycho religious fanatics as I've been throwing things out.  Getting chased down by angry dogs was one.  It's also why I'm sort of stuck on the idea of fire breathing mechanical horses now, because the unicorn horn idea isn't as visually scary for me even if they were the barrel of a machine gun lol.

[Servant of Dante]

I don't want hounds or horses that breathe fire

 

just normal horses (or mechanical horses that are otherwise normal). It doesn't need to be too silly (hounds just don't fit my image of the Sisters' aesthetic).

[Skaorn]

I don't want hounds or horses that breathe fire

 

just normal horses (or mechanical horses that are otherwise normal). It doesn't need to be too silly (hounds just don't fit my image of the Sisters' aesthetic).

I wasn't honestly suggesting the fire breathing as an actual thing, just that my brain is stuck on it. I'd go with mechanical as horses are delicate animals and then there is all that fire.

[Servant of Dante]

 

I don't want hounds or horses that breathe fire

 

just normal horses (or mechanical horses that are otherwise normal). It doesn't need to be too silly (hounds just don't fit my image of the Sisters' aesthetic).

I wasn't honestly suggesting the fire breathing as an actual thing, just that my brain is stuck on it. I'd go with mechanical as horses are delicate animals and then there is all that fire.

 

Well, that's why we have power barding :D

[CaptainMarsh]

I like horses a lot more than bikes. Of course I hate bikes in 40k with the exception of Orks universally.

[RedSquig]

A typical nun ride is on a .... spoiler

 

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2015/1/21/1421841825172/Powered-by-her-sandals----008.jpg

 

But seriously, maybe something more unique, the imperial guard has horse, the marines bikes, the sisters should have something more unique.... maybe we should focus on the skies, like angels, some kind of flying pulpit as a flying transports of celestians and priests.

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QpSrjFtvXYw/TZPiR2sONFI/AAAAAAAABD8/Gvgr3vBmRfs/s640/20000611mag-phenomenon.1.jpg

 

like this but cooler

 

 

Like the priests on the pulpit and the celestians hanging in the botton of the pulpit as an open topped vehicle from where they can fire

 

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/english-pulpits/pic_2.jpg

 

Change in your imagination the carving for celestians and a priests on the pulpit with the harangue

Edited July 28, 2017 by RedSquig

[Atrus]

Flying robo horse angels? Velkyrie :p

 

You could easily do sone mods to Karamazovs chair. Giant walking pulpits.

[A.T.]

like this but cooler

 

There is the space wolf sled - i've been meaning to convert one up as an anti-grav pulpit for my priests for a while now. Just needs the wolf iconography greenstuffed out.

[Gen.Steiner]

I can't get behind the idea of horses, I'm afraid.

I'd rather have Sisters on motorbikes - or perhaps quad-bike things with gun mounts?

[RedSquig]

Ministorum anti-grav Pulpit

 

WS 5+ S6 T5 W10 Ld8 Sv4+

6-10W 14" Bs 3+ A3

3-5W 10" Bs 4+ Ad3

1-2W 6" Bs 5+ A1

 

Open-topped, Fly, Shield of faith

Transport: The pulpit can transport 1 Ministorum Priest and 6 Adeptus Ministorum infantry or jumpack units.

 

While the pulpit is transporting a Ministorum Priest, you can apply the war-himms ministorum priest rule from the Pulpit and up to 12".

 

Weapons, you can upgrade the Pulpit with a:

 

Heavy flamer or Heavy bolter or Multi-melta

[radionausea]

or perhaps quad-bike things with gun mounts?

Quad bikes, that I can get behind!

[Montford]

Bring back the Sarissa and allow each Celestian to have one.

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

Sisters on bikes just seems too Spess Mahreen to me.

Not if they're repentia bikers! It combos making repentia better with having 100% melee focused bikers which is fairly rare.

Except that that makes no sense for the repentia's fluff, the whole point is that they just have their Evicerator.

Which is a big part of why they're consistently terrible. They need something more than 'pray they ignore our rhino'.

 

Sidebar: Horses were dumb in world war 2 and an army with access to jumppacks using horses is...just awful.

Edited July 28, 2017 by ERJAK

[Noeh]

Penitent engines make me think Repentia on bikes makes sense. "I'll purge heretics on my bike that offers no real protection but goes faster". Either that or some for of jump pack melee squad. I've always wished Sisters had melee seraphim.

[Beams]

 

 

 

 

Sisters on bikes just seems too Spess Mahreen to me.

Not if they're repentia bikers! It combos making repentia better with having 100% melee focused bikers which is fairly rare.

Except that that makes no sense for the repentia's fluff, the whole point is that they just have their Evicerator.

Which is a big part of why they're consistently terrible. They need something more than 'pray they ignore our rhino'.

 

Sidebar: Horses were dumb in world war 2 and an army with access to jumppacks using horses is...just awful.

I don't know if you've used Repentia this edition, but they melt pretty much anything they hit. I've killed Kharne, Hellbrutes, Centurions, Pedro Kantor, and a ton of Tyranid monsters on the charge with them. I'm not sure why people hate them this edition, but it's not justified.

[A.T.]

I'm not sure why people hate them this edition, but it's not justified.

 

Comparison to other assault units - arcos, cultists, berzerkers, etc. Repentia often work out inferior point for point (on the charge at least) while being more fragile and having greater reliance on support characters and rules to get the best out of them. And I think some added disappointment of their performance against the common T7 vehicles that they used to be able to blow right through.

[Servant of Dante]

Well, having bad rules is no excuse to murder their fluff

 

And yeah, horses aren't practical on a battlefield. Neither are bikes the way marines use them, but this is 40K. It's fantasy in space with guns.

 

I'm not a fan of the flying pulpit thing, I guess I want something a liiiiitle less crazy looking.

[Beams]

 

I'm not sure why people hate them this edition, but it's not justified.

Comparison to other assault units - arcos, cultists, berzerkers, etc. Repentia often work out inferior point for point (on the charge at least) while being more fragile and having greater reliance on support characters and rules to get the best out of them. And I think some added disappointment of their performance against the common T7 vehicles that they used to be able to blow right through.

I know they are more expensive in PL, but they cost the same as Dcults (17 pts each), and if your not taking a priest with Dcults, you're losing tons of attacks.

 

I'll probably do a simulation later just to argue it, but Dcults are good against some things. Youre throwing out 5 attacks per model as opposed to 3, both rerolling hits.

 

Dcults hit more, but are wounding t4's on 5's and T6+ on 6's, and are only doing one damage apiece.

 

Repentia hit slightly less, but are wounding t5's and less on 3's, t6's on 4's and t7 through 11's on 5's, which headmath here means about the same number of wounds inflicted on average as Dcults, but dealing 2 wounds each.

 

Another point of interest is Repentia have the (order) keyword, as well as AoF, so they can fit inside a Repressor while Dcults can only go into a rhino, which after they exit is practically worthless.

 

The AoF means if you are charged or manage to get tied up, you get to swing twice, or you can double move (14") plus charge to cover a ridiculous distance. Sure, you might ditch your support characters doing so, but it's still an option that can either be planned for, or used as a "that unit needs to die this turn, and this is a way to do it" end game tactic.

 

I've used them alot, and the people I play with absolutely fear them.

 

Also, since 1 mistress and 1 priest buff multiple squads, you can take 2 squads of Repentia with 1 of each, and have a truly terrifying counter charge. Or take 1 Repentia and 1 Arco/DCult if your worried about different units.

 

 

All of that side, I wouldn't be opposed to a point reduction, an increased Sheild of Faith, or an option to upgrade the squad (3-5 ppm?) To take "real" eviscerators...

 

 

EdIT:

With power fists dropping 8 pts, I'd expect the Cannoness eviscerator to do the same.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Beams

[Servant of Dante]

They should just have real Evicerators all the time. They are the only ones that really use them, it's just that sometimes characters have one for themselves. The rules distinction makes absolutely no sense in the fluff, and the nerf was completely unnecessary. I don't really use Repentia (I know it's weird I love VH but don't run Repentia much) but it still bothers me that their evicerators have been changes to evicerator-juniors. I'd be like if suddenly the Emperor's Champion had a lesser version of a Black Sword, but a BT Captain could get a full-on Black Sword.

[A.T.]

Dcults hit more, but are wounding t4's on 5's and T6+ on 6's, and are only doing one damage apiece.

Dcults are strength 4.

 

Against marines they manage an average of 1.185 wounds, Repentia 0.889, and with a mistress 1.333 ... _but_ you have to halve those repentia numbers against single wound marines where the eviscerator is less efficient. Same story against guard (T3 5+).

 

Against rhinos they don't even match the death cultists with a mistress in tow. You have to get to the big targets like landraiders for the repentia to pull ahead, and even then only meaningfully with the help of the mistress and for only modest damage.

 

 

The repentia just lack that edge. They can't even speed off with faith without ditching their mistress and priest. I don't mind that they suffer against infantry but they really shouldn't be so poor against vehicles - the gimpvisercator hurts them there.

[Noeh]

The mistress being a separate model suggests an intention to have you run multiple repentia squads close to each other and the mistress, but they cost far too much for that. Overall I just find repentia as they currently are pretty bad. If your opponent knows what they do they'll just blast them off the map before they get to the target they should be hitting.