Chaos codex release date 8/5/17

[Panzer]

I may be the only one but I really didn't expect him not to be there.

[THUNDERFISTS]

Crossing my fingers that Powerfists are reduced to 12 (?) points like in the SM codex. Make my Berzerker squads a little cheaper, like they need it 

[Panzer]

Pretty sure wargear will cost the same in all Codices in the end.

 

I'm more interested in what they are going to do with Fiends. They're already weaker than Helbrutes while costing more points and now Helbrutes got access to Legion Traits as well which makes them even better. Fiends either need a HUGE buff or a HUGE point decrease (like costing around 120p with weapons or such).

[ChaosReigns]

Sadly I have nothing worthwhile to contribute with regards to the Black Legion rules, but I want to make a few comments here.

 

First of all, I'm fairly pleased with the Word Bearers' "legion tactics" thus far. Battleshock can be quite punishing if you roll poorly, so the re-roll in conjunction with a Dark Apostle (and maybe an Icon of Vengeance here and there) effectively means you can wash your hands of morale altogether on units that actually count. Personally, even if I take blobs twenty Cultists I'm not expecting them to accomplish much, and if they draw my opponent's fire even for a turn or two they've done their job. I'm more excited about the morale re-roll as regards big units of Chaos Space Marines, or full-sized squads of Possessed or Chosen or other elite units. At any rate, in terms of the Cultists, yes, is it possible that your squad of Cultists will lose so many models in a single turn of shooting that even leadership 9 (from a Dark Apostle) and a re-roll will not be enough to save you from losing several more to battleshock. That being said though, even in that circumstance, let's say you roll a 5 or a 6, thus failing your morale test, you can now re-roll that die and you might roll a 1 or a 2, so you will get some utility out of that ability IMO even if it's not as great for running huge blobs of traitorous dregs as the Renegades & Heretics infantry options with Enforcers.

 

I want to also just say a thing or two about the "new" Games Workshop. Since I'm the first person to criticize Games Workshop ferociously when they make mistakes (as is the rest of the Chaos community too, naturally ) it's only fair that I acknowledge what great work they seem to be doing here. I thought it might just be a fluke when the index came out, and a lot of the trashy units that have been bad for several editions, languishing with the same old rules and legacy points costs - Rubric Marines come to mind - were suddenly much improved. Now we're hearing that Possessed will have 2 wounds, which is exactly what they needed to go from a profoundly mediocre unit to actually good. I have 20 Gal Vorbak, so I'm beyond stoked, and my usual opponents who learned to fear the Gal Vorbak while I was using the Horus Heresy rules for Word Bearers in 7th will quail to face the Blessed Sons of Chaos once more.

 

Hopefully Obliterators and some of the other units suffering in the indices will be similarly improved.

 

After years of not getting rules for the Traitor Legions, suddenly we're getting them again, and they actually look pretty good for the most part. Not only that but our codex is also being released in a timely fashion - great for the Fate of Konor campaign. I assumed that the Chaos Space Marines book was going to be dropping in late August or early September, so this is fantastic news, and a very perceptive move on the part of Games Workshop. Any concerns about them rigging the campaign turn out, much to my surprise, to be misplaced. Not to mention the swiftness with which they're putting out FAQ's and Errata's now. They've really upped their game. A lot is changing, and most everything seems to be changing for the better.

 

For the first time in a long time I think Chaos players can afford to be cautiously optimistic about the future long-term. We can only hope that this new paradigm lasts.

Edited July 31, 2017 by ChaosReigns

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

I was about to argue that, despite dakka rhinos being good, the havoc launcher that is a big part of their output is a heavy weapon and wouldn't benefit from the trait, but then I remembered that rhinos aren't infantry, bikes, or helbrutes, and thus they don't benefit from the trait, anyway.

 

As for shooty armies like tau, unless they're full of fliers (as, admittedly, tau can be), you're still probably better off charging, to force withdrawals on the following turn, temporarily shutting some of those guns up.

Oops. Totally forgot about the Rhinos. Good catch.

 

Tau can largely withdraw without anything in the Flier battlefield role and still shoot you. Devilfish and almost all of the suits have the FLY keyword, and can therefore do so. Dunno if that's what you meant. Suitspam (particularly multiple Commanders) is a big thing right now....and multiple Commanders with Counterfire Defense System and 3 weapons each will do serious damage in Overwatch.

 

I wouldn't overestimate T'au Overwatch tbh. They can't use Markerlights to hit better than 6+ anymore so the best thing they can do is getting re-rolls of 1s and helping with nearby units (which can't Overwatch that phase then anymore!).

Also nobody really takes Counterfire Defense System as T'au. Other Support Systems or even just an additional weapon is usually a much better choice. The real problem, as already mentioned, is that you can't really bind T'au in melee anymore and that their Suits are pretty damn durable now. Especially with Drones nearby.

 

Anyway, my understanding is that you can't advance with warptime.  And even if you can, then deep strike plus warptime should get you into short melta range anyway.  And if it won't due to bubble wrapping, then advance probably won't make the difference.  And if you're deep striking and warp timing, you might as well charge too, which, again, no advancing.

 

Maybe if there's a general 'advance and charge' stratagem that isn't too pricey?  We'll see.  Again, I'm not ruling the BL trait out, I'm just skeptical at the moment.

I'd agree. It clearly says "move" not "advance". Those are two different actions in the movementphase. And if you advance you can't charge a nearby unit which means the enemy can shoot at you without having to fall back with a unit.

 

Been seeing Counterfire in a few lists, probably depends on meta.

 

EDIT: Just checked some more lists online and it's specifically called out in most of the related threads as a meta adjustment  for tourneys where you expect the locals to be CC heavy.

Edited July 31, 2017 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Panzer]

 

I wouldn't overestimate T'au Overwatch tbh. They can't use Markerlights to hit better than 6+ anymore so the best thing they can do is getting re-rolls of 1s and helping with nearby units (which can't Overwatch that phase then anymore!).

 

 

Also nobody really takes Counterfire Defense System as T'au. Other Support Systems or even just an additional weapon is usually a much better choice. The real problem, as already mentioned, is that you can't really bind T'au in melee anymore and that their Suits are pretty damn durable now. Especially with Drones nearby.

Been seeing Counterfire in a few lists, probably depends on meta.

 

Sure, local meta is a thing. But even with CDS it's just a re-roll on a 6+ roll. That's hardly good. Considering what else they could have taken for that Support Slot I'd actually be happy to face that one (4++, 6+ FnP, improved AP on weapons, one more weapon, EWO, re-rolling 1s when shooting with all weapons on the same target, ignoring movement penalties).

I'd say an additional flamer would usually work much better against charges than the CDS.

 

EDIT: reducing the quote

Edited July 31, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Closet Skeleton]

Just had a read though the White Dwarf & in case of any worry, Cypher & the Fallen are still part of codex Chaos Space Marines.  Page 147 comment on this in the White Dwarf.

seems strange that he's not getting a solo release along with Voldus then.

[Lord Asvaldir]

First of all, I'm fairly pleased with the Word Bearers' "legion tactics" thus far. Battleshock can be quite punishing if you roll poorly, so the re-roll in conjunction with a Dark Apostle (and maybe an Icon of Vengeance here and there) effectively means you can wash your hands of morale altogether on units that actually count. Personally, even if I take blobs twenty Cultists I'm not expecting them to accomplish much, and if they draw my opponent's fire even for a turn or two they've done their job. I'm more excited about the morale re-roll as regards big units of Chaos Space Marines, or full-sized squads of Possessed or Chosen or other elite units. At any rate, in terms of the Cultists, yes, is it possible that your squad of Cultists will lose so many models in a single turn of shooting that even leadership 9 (from a Dark Apostle) and a re-roll will not be enough to save you from losing several more to battleshock. That being said though, even in that circumstance, let's say you roll a 5 or a 6, thus failing your morale test, you can now re-roll that die and you might roll a 1 or a 2, so you will get some utility out of that ability IMO even if it's not as great for running huge blobs of traitorous dregs as the Renegades & Heretics infantry options with Enforcers.

 

 

 

Completely agree with you about the WB trait, assuming that is that rumor is true. Finally unlike with the 7th traitor legions supplement every WB basic marine will actually benefit from our trait instead of just daemon summoning sorcs. Sure reroll moral isn't a super powerful rule, especially compared to the better traits but it seems like a very thematic trait for WB. I also prefer running bigger squads in general, so a ten man marine/possessed/chosen unit with icon of vengeance and the WB trait seems like it will be much less likely to lose troops to failed ld tests. 

[Brother Aiwass]

So, Corsair zerkers disembark 3"move, advance, and charge? That's juicey!

[Sception]

Just had a read though the White Dwarf & in case of any worry, Cypher & the Fallen are still part of codex Chaos Space Marines. Page 147 comment on this in the White Dwarf.

Frankly, this makes me /more/ worried, because it means two other units with probably better claim to be there will be dropped instead.

[Marshal Loss]

EC look great. Would love to do them in 40k sometime, but not without a model overhaul.

[Sception]

Pretty much.  I'd love to add a noise marine unit to my Black Legion, but that's dependent on them going back to sonic weapons that actually look like electric guitars.  Yes I'm aware there's third party options, but none of them really do it for me.

[Lord Abaia]

If the Night Lord trait really let's you devastate morale this hard, then I think I just found the use for the Infernal Gaze power, taking out commissars.

 

I love, love, love that I can now fit two 5-man infantry units in a single transport now. I'm going to pick one side of the board and turn it into the carpool lane of terror.

[Kizzdougs]

EC look great. Would love to do them in 40k sometime, but not without a model overhaul.

This 100%!

 

The current Noise Marine minis are trash, and while the Kakophoni minis are fantastic, they just aren't Chaotic enough for my taste. If we get a range of minis on the level of the Thousand Sons/Death Guard/Dark Vengeance Chosen I'll be all over that

 

Edit:

Lucius actually has a pretty great mini (for its age at least) it's just unfortunate that GW didn't follow up the release of Lucius with some better upgrades/minis for the EC/Noise Marines.

 

 

Something like this would be fantastic!

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Kizzdougs

[Panzer]

Love the armor design of the one with the topknot. I'd be very happy if all Noise Marines would follow that design. Tho I also like the Kromlech Bedlam torsos quite a bit. ^^

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

 

 

 

White Dwarf just arrive.

​ADB Black Legion novel is on advance order the 12th & release 19th August, both standard & limited ed.  Article/guide on Chaos Marines from page 72.

 

It's pre-orders from the 5th, information must have changed since publication.

 

Mind saying what the hint is for next week month's White Dwarf? Anything Nurgle related?

 

 

Codex Chaos Space Marines is still the 5th, release 12th.

 

​ADB novel, Black Legion is advance order 12th, release 19th

http://www.blacklibrary.com/coming-soon/august/black-legion-ebook.html

 

Edit - Nothing on Nurgle.  But we saw Space Marines been release by the end of July (weekend just been) & then codex Chaos & Grey Knight both been release on the same day.  So who know, maybe see something end of September??

 

 

It's the 5th, says so down the bottom of the page.

 

http://i.imgur.com/sBENrkg.png

 

And damn. I still expect DG in September, but I also expected a teaser message like 'Angel of Decay' or something, seeing as Space Marines got Index Astartes for their release month.

 

edit: just realised that 'Index Astartes' referred to the article not their codex, so I guess the lack of a hint means nothing

 

 

Got a email today, Black Library web site is the right release date.  Not the one in the White Dwarf - they tend work three month in advance if I remember.

 

Also really like the Slannesh article yesterday.  But no need guess how hype I am about today one!!!!!!

 

Kizzdougs - Where did you find the art work?  I think I've seen sort same style for a few other, I rememeber one for the Iron Warriors I've got save somewhere.

They do look cool & if there ever any new plastic wouldn't mind them been release.

 

[MoGuy]

Death Guard will come in September, I guarantee it! Think about it: GW wants to release 10 Codices before Christmas. So far we have three (SM, GK, CSM). That means GW has to release 7 more Codices in four months. It just wouldn't make sense if Death Guard didn't come out in September since it is among the first four Codices to be released. 

[Sception]

Certainly won't be later than september.  Wouldn't surprise me if the preorder was in august.

[Ghorgul]

NL trait is nice, but it isn't that awesome. Many armies can ignore morale (AM, Tyranids, Orcs to some level), and then if playing against Space Marines and they go MSU, 5 man max in one unit the Ld modifiers dont probably do anything at all.

 

Lets see, you get 2 NL units next to 5 man space marine squad and kill 1-2, then enemy will roll a die, in this case they would lose more if they roll 5+, but then they have a re-roll due to ATSKNF so it is not very likely that you do much at all. Then if you stack up 3 units within 6" its overkill, or if you kill 3 the unit is almost done for already. 

I don't think the NL trait is that awesome.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Ghorgul

[Ashe Darke]

To be fair though marines wouldn't run from Night Lords so at least it lines up with expectations. It's just not to great against most people's meta.

 

Need to see what it actually says I suppose, Plus there will be more stuff that we haven't seen yet that will hopefully help.

[Panzer]

NL trait is nice, but it isn't that awesome. Many armies can ignore morale (AM, Tyranids, Orcs to some level), and then if playing against Space Marines and they go MSU, 5 man max in one unit the Ld modifiers dont probably do anything at all.

 

Lets see, you get 2 NL units next to 5 man space marine squad and kill 1-2, then enemy will roll a die, in this case they would lose more if they roll 5+, but then they have a re-roll due to ATSKNF so it is not very likely that you do much at all. Then if you stack up 3 units within 6" its overkill, or if you kill 3 the unit is almost done for already. 

I don't think the NL trait is that awesome.

I disagree. Put two 5 man units in a Rhino, disembark and charge with both + maybe a character and you already got a -3 modifier. Now you only need to kill one of the enemy unit to cause additional casualties on average despite their re-roll.

[Galron]

Liking the Alpha Legion and IW traits. NL as said is pretty decent except the most common armies have a counter and MSU is starting to appear to be the way this edition is going minimizing the effect.

 

I haven't gotten a chance to really hit the rules with a fine toothed comb. Even though I am less mechy than I was, if a unit has some sort of infiltrate like AL has, does their dedicated transport infiltrate too? I might end up having to do a total revamp on my force since the rules have changed so drastically. I need to quit putting squad markers on their shoulder pads. Really interested to see what chaos lords get. I use Dynat as my warlord and currently have to field his hammer as a simple power fist. Maybe I will make a dedicated hand to hand squad for once, I haven't had a reason to before. I think my NLs are still going to be decommissioned so I will have plenty of terror troops to convert to nice clean Alpha Legionnaires.

 

IW doesn't really change my play style and I still cant use a good chunk of my terminators :( Where the hell did we send all our Tyrant terminator suits? I mean really, we fight loyalist marines all the time, salvage some cyclones. I was hoping for an immunity to shooting morale checks which they seemed to have forgotten. I might make them a more long range artillery force than I currently have them because why not. Is it -1 to enemies cover and +1 to their own save that I read somewhere else? Because that would cement my idea I think.

[Ghorgul]

 

NL trait is nice, but it isn't that awesome. Many armies can ignore morale (AM, Tyranids, Orcs to some level), and then if playing against Space Marines and they go MSU, 5 man max in one unit the Ld modifiers dont probably do anything at all.

 

Lets see, you get 2 NL units next to 5 man space marine squad and kill 1-2, then enemy will roll a die, in this case they would lose more if they roll 5+, but then they have a re-roll due to ATSKNF so it is not very likely that you do much at all. Then if you stack up 3 units within 6" its overkill, or if you kill 3 the unit is almost done for already. 

I don't think the NL trait is that awesome.

I disagree. Put two 5 man units in a Rhino, disembark and charge with both + maybe a character and you already got a -3 modifier. Now you only need to kill one of the enemy unit to cause additional casualties on average despite their re-roll.

 

Well then you are using 2x 5 man CSM squads + rhino + character with Jump pack or Bike to kill one 5 man squad? Doesn't sound very efficient to me. That amount of units should be able to wipe that unit out anyway.

 

Trying to wipe multiple units, that could work, but enemy can counter it by just splitting up their units more. 6" is quite short range still.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Ghorgul

[Kizzdougs]

 

Kizzdougs - Where did you find the art work?  I think I've seen sort same style for a few other, I rememeber one for the Iron Warriors I've got save somewhere.

They do look cool & if there ever any new plastic wouldn't mind them been release.

Do you mean this piece?

 

 

It's by Mikhail Savier. A super talented dude :tu:

[Panzer]

 

 

NL trait is nice, but it isn't that awesome. Many armies can ignore morale (AM, Tyranids, Orcs to some level), and then if playing against Space Marines and they go MSU, 5 man max in one unit the Ld modifiers dont probably do anything at all.

 

Lets see, you get 2 NL units next to 5 man space marine squad and kill 1-2, then enemy will roll a die, in this case they would lose more if they roll 5+, but then they have a re-roll due to ATSKNF so it is not very likely that you do much at all. Then if you stack up 3 units within 6" its overkill, or if you kill 3 the unit is almost done for already. 

I don't think the NL trait is that awesome.

I disagree. Put two 5 man units in a Rhino, disembark and charge with both + maybe a character and you already got a -3 modifier. Now you only need to kill one of the enemy unit to cause additional casualties on average despite their re-roll.

 

Well then you are using 2x 5 man CSM squads + rhino + character with Jump pack or Bike to kill one 5 man squad? Doesn't sound very efficient to me. That amount of units should be able to wipe that unit out anyway.

 

It's common that people for some reason have the misconception that you have to fight units 1v1. It's WAY better to let 2 of your units fight 1 of the enemy units so you have less casualties instead of having two units punch each others faces until both are depleted.

Edited August 1, 2017 by sfPanzer