8th Ed Codex on the way

[Mitchverr]

Ah ok, well, it works on the whole force for now, which is great

 

(inb4 nerfs lol)

Edited September 18, 2017 by Mitchverr

[hermanista]

Ordered 3 more ironstriders and 2 more boxes of Fulgerites today.

 

God I hope I can paint the Stygies scheme...

 

Or just go for desert and use whatever.

 

That 20 man infiltrate should play different to anything else I play.

 

 

Was their any more clarification on knights - no keyword for FW variants I heard somewhere?

[OnboardG1]

Man I'm genuinely torn between making my Skitarii from Lucius or Stygies. I read through the fluff for both and they're both really cool. A planet with a sun in the middle? It's very mechanicum level bonkers. The Stygian obsession with xenotech and deception tickles my pickle though too. Gamewise I like the Lucius strat better but the Stygies dogma more.

 

I might end up buying a lot of skitarii...

[Kilofix]

I am going to find a way to make Ryza work even if it means having to build another 200 Plasma Destroyers and Fist Robots.

[Mitchverr]

I am going to find a way to make Ryza work even if it means having to build another 200 Plasma Destroyers and Fist Robots.

 

I have kind of given up, every list i write up i just think "x forgeworld does this better" lol.

 

Good luck with it, and do report back, all knowledge is needed :)

[Baluc]

Skitarii being useful as only shifted my detachments. I have a naked battalion with 3x five man units with plasma, and 2 tech priests. But, I'm still taking a AM vangaurd detachment for a unit of conscripts and psykers. Nothing in the new book really approaches the level that I don't want to participate in a whole phase.

[Shard of Magnus]

I think I'll be right there with you Kilofix. Ryza has the most appealing color palette of the included forge worlds and I do love plasma... However, while the army doesn't have to be the most effective on the table top, local meta is competitive enough that giving up too much for a visual theme will be of some concern.

[lancerusso]

I think I'll be right there with you Kilofix. Ryza has the most appealing color palette of the included forge worlds and I do love plasma... However, while the army doesn't have to be the most effective on the table top, local meta is competitive enough that giving up too much for a visual theme will be of some concern.

This. I always play just enough c.c units such that the Ryza dogma is now really useful as opposed to a heap of :cuss

[Xisor]

I'd just like to reiterate my firm belief that encapsulating an entire forgeworld with one rule and one strategem is an inherently absurd thing. Vastly more so than AM regiments or SM chapters.

 

As such: if anyone moans about 'but they're painted that way', divert them with an argument that the Adeptus Mechanicus is an inherently feudal, schismatic organisation with each world being an unholy alliance of vicious rivals. Grouping them by world is the foolish thing, not 'painting them the wrong colour'.

 

Headcanon

 

I'm keen to fluff-up some details that actually capture the relevant strategems and dogmas in a more sensible way. The intent being that the groupings should be logical, not based on colour scheme.

 

Obviously, GW leaves that wiggle room entirely open, but it'd be nice to have an easy thing to quickly substitute!

[momerathe]

Was their any more clarification on knights - no keyword for FW variants I heard somewhere?

 

Well this is supposition, but the mainstream 40k rules never (to my knowledge) mention FW stuff. So unless there's a note to this effect in the AdMech codex, then the FW knights will be stuck without the "Questor Mechanicus" keyword, and won't be able to benefit from the AdMech stratagems until/unless FW issue some errata.

 

I suspect that they changed the keyword deliberately so that in future they can put out a codex based around "Questor Imperialis", with relics and dedicated stratagems etc., but because they will have different keywords you won't be able to "double dip". It'll be a choice between synergy with AdMech (repair & canticles) or more dedicated knight-y stuff.

[Charlo]

They'll probably FAQ it in post codex release.

 

Like they did with all of the Chaos stuff and "HELLBRUTE"

[Feral_80]

One thing I didn't get from the reviews and sneak-peaks: can you mix different Forge Worlds within the same detachment? E.g. it would be good to go Stygies VIII for all your fire support units in the back, and a different FW for units that are going to close in with the enemy, like Lucius or Graia (if you go Skitarii spam). See below.

 

Can't really say why so many people are excited for the Stygies stratagem: it's s*it actually, as it openly goes against its own dogma. The dogma gives you -1 to be hit when over 12" away from the enemy, and you spend 1 CP to lose the bonus and deploy within 9", *maybe* charging and *surely* getting annihilated next turn...yeah, thanks but not thanks. If you want to infiltrate you'd better go Lucius, which actually has both a much better infiltrating stratagem and a dogma that might be consistent with it.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Feral_80

[OnboardG1]

Lucius definitely has the more flexible strategy, however the -1 to hit is just so strong. -1AP = 0AP is fine against some armies and a bit duff against others. My eldar playing friend wouldn't care at all about it and would be extremely vulnerable to the turn 1 alpha strike from priests. On the other hand my Night Lords would have a much harder time against Lucius because my heavy bolters and autocannons will hurt the Skitarii less. 

 

I think I'm going to paint my own colour scheme for my Skitarii and decide which ruleset I like best based on playing.

Edited September 19, 2017 by OnboardG1

[DeStinyFiSh]

So I decided I am going to test Graia (propably 1500) this Sunday, which is not even 1 of the top 3 Forgeworlds. My first idea was to go Mars with Crawlers, Robots and Carl, but I guess I will end up there soon enough, so lets have some fund with other stuff that was not worth it with the Index.

 

3x 10 Vanguard with 2 Plasma, 1 Arc and Data Tether each

as "backbone" and to get most out of the Dogma

 

2x 5 Ranger with TA

3 Robots

2 Onagers (Icarus and Laser

to get shooty. First I wanted to have more Skitarii and some Priests, but I guess if I dont have enough range the enemy might defeat me in the shooting phase, which would be emberassing. This way I hope I get enough Dakka to force him into my direction and into 18" range of the Vanguard.

 

1 TPD, 2 Enginseer and a Datasmith for support.

 

If we decide to go bigger I think CC E-Priests might find a place or some Infitrators to get to the other side of the board.

 

Realy looking forward to the this, since I had enough games with the Index fielding less then 20 models...

[Prot]

One thing I didn't get from the reviews and sneak-peaks: can you mix different Forge Worlds within the same detachment? E.g. it would be good to go Stygies VIII for all your fire support units in the back, and a different FW for units that are going to close in with the enemy, like Lucius or Graia (if you go Skitarii spam). See below.

 

 

 

Well technically you can mix them because they do share a keyword. However think of mixing Forgeworlds the same as mixing Marine Chapters... yes they all share a keyword but you lose any individual chapter traits (Dogma's) by doing so.

 

So that's why you see people talking about taking a "Mars Batallion" and a "Stygies Spearhead" for example. The detachments retain their Dogma's and you still get to mix it up a bit.

 

 

Can't really say why so many people are excited for the Stygies stratagem: it's s*it actually, as it openly goes against its own dogma. The dogma gives you -1 to be hit when over 12" away from the enemy, and you spend 1 CP to lose the bonus and deploy within 9", *maybe* charging and *surely* getting annihilated next turn...yeah, thanks but not thanks. If you want to infiltrate you'd better go Lucius, which actually has both a much better infiltrating stratagem and a dogma that might be consistent with it.

 

Stygies was a serious consideration for me. If Had more interest in the black scheme part I would have probably went for it. The -1 to hit is something exceptionally useful in almost every game. The Strat allowing Infiltrate in one of the inherently slowest armies in the game is pretty enticing.

 

Some of the worst match ups against shooty armies are partially alleviated by having deep strike/infiltration.

[Kilofix]

So using mathhammer it looks like using the 1cp Ryza Plasma Strat, each Plasma Destroyer will do about 1 additional damage to a T8 target, after considering BS4+ and all.

 

So using the 1cp Strat on a 9 model Plasma Destroyer unit will net about 9 points more damage.

 

That doesn't sound too bad. Probably still not as useful as the other Forgeworlds but I'm going to make it work.

[DeStinyFiSh]

One thing I didn't get from the reviews and sneak-peaks: can you mix different Forge Worlds within the same detachment? E.g. it would be good to go Stygies VIII for all your fire support units in the back, and a different FW for units that are going to close in with the enemy, like Lucius or Graia (if you go Skitarii spam). See below.

 

Can't really say why so many people are excited for the Stygies stratagem: it's s*it actually, as it openly goes against its own dogma. The dogma gives you -1 to be hit when over 12" away from the enemy, and you spend 1 CP to lose the bonus and deploy within 9", *maybe* charging and *surely* getting annihilated next turn...yeah, thanks but not thanks. If you want to infiltrate you'd better go Lucius, which actually has both a much better infiltrating stratagem and a dogma that might be consistent with it.

With Stygies you have a movement phase after deployment, so turn 1 charge with E Priests is hard to fail.

Yes, the Priests (or whatever uses the stratagem) will be within 12" of some units then and won't benefit from Dogma, but the rest of your army does.

And even without the Stratagem: I guess most Tau or Guard players will hate you for -1 to hit and +1 armour for Shroudpsalm. Makes your gunline next to untouchable

[OnboardG1]

 

Stygies was a serious consideration for me. If Had more interest in the black scheme part I would have probably went for it. The -1 to hit is something exceptionally useful in almost every game. The Strat allowing Infiltrate in one of the inherently slowest armies in the game is pretty enticing.

 

Some of the worst match ups against shooty armies are partially alleviated by having deep strike/infiltration.

 

 

Since I've not painted any of my units up yet I decided to paint my Skitarii in my own colour scheme and use the rules from either Stygies or Lucius once I get uncomfortable from sitting on the fence. I've not painted my own scheme in a while and Skitarii have lots of scope for fun colours. I think I'm going to go with bronze metallics, purple robes, mars-red armour plates and white cloth. That way they tie into the Mars robots I'm going to paint (because Mars is cool and dammit I bought Cawl so I'm going to use him). 

[Vel'Cona]

I didn't mean to imply that anyone would model/paint for advantage; just posting a concern that has been realized with C: SM CTs, especially among the "grey ghosts" (unpainted) crowd.  Don't get me wrong, it's your army, do what you want.  But for my money, I make it a point to confirm with my opponent before ANY models hit the table what faction/chapter/dogma/etc. they are using!  ;)

[Silentz]

Yeah all my forces are painted (or in the process of being painted) Mars.   I'm not sure whether or not I try and get away with "Cawl, Datasmith, Robots and Onager are Mars... everything else is X".  Maybe against mates but probably wouldn't work in general.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I will play my Mars-painted forces as whatever FW I want, but I am not going to mix FWs just to get the most out of this army...

Seriously, I would be kind of pissed myself if I face a SM army consisting of 3 different chapters just to get a chapter tactic that suits every single unit the best

[Mitchverr]

One thing I didn't get from the reviews and sneak-peaks: can you mix different Forge Worlds within the same detachment? E.g. it would be good to go Stygies VIII for all your fire support units in the back, and a different FW for units that are going to close in with the enemy, like Lucius or Graia (if you go Skitarii spam). See below.

 

Can't really say why so many people are excited for the Stygies stratagem: it's s*it actually, as it openly goes against its own dogma. The dogma gives you -1 to be hit when over 12" away from the enemy, and you spend 1 CP to lose the bonus and deploy within 9", *maybe* charging and *surely* getting annihilated next turn...yeah, thanks but not thanks. If you want to infiltrate you'd better go Lucius, which actually has both a much better infiltrating stratagem and a dogma that might be consistent with it.

 

As another poster said, you mix that with priests or another interesting combat unit and it effectively works well, I would personally go with both shooty and hitty priests in big blobs for it (2 units of 15-20 dudes) to murder whatever they hit, have the shooty guys run down an enemy blob or 2 then charge in and finish something with the stick priests rushing something very low in numbers or very weak which it will kill in its combat phase, giving you a 15-20 3++ unit which cannot be ignored.

 

This mixes very well with the dogma and admech as a whole in my view, though it is "against the dogma" by moving troops closer, it also means those closer troops not only are a threat, but are more likely to be hit in the first place, making your gunline less likely to be engaged and thus survive longer overall (say your a guard player and you got yourself a few mortar squads as is the current flavour from what i can tell, do you shoot at toughness 5 dudes you hit on 5s on the far side of the table, or do you shoot at toughness 3 dudes you hit on 4s which are directly infront of you? Even if the servitors are much more dangerous long term?).

 

Also, something I have seen being said also, what if your enemy scouts and blocks you with something? Well, usually dont scouts have a fragileness to them (thinking sentinels)? Perfect target to plonk your priests to attack, they will rip the scouts apart and then can push forwards. Theres also the side point that you dont always have to use the stratagem, its there for when you WANT to use it, and with your opponent knowing you can do it, it has a serious mind game effect (i know with my kriegers if i went against a stygies force, i would have serious thoughts on my deployment to be highly defencive instead of aggressive as i would naturally play).

 

Lastly, I am genuinely thinking how fun could it be to simply take a max size unit of kastelan robots, infiltraite them in to land on an objective in the middle of the board, use the protocol strat, make them fire double shots, and effectively annihilate anything the enemy has, ofcourse, using perhaps alongside CC priests whom can effectively act as a shield for the unit.

[Withershadow]

*sigh* Why are people so short-sighted and only see the ability to deploy ANYWHERE ON THE FRIGGIN' BOARD before the game starts, as a way to park yourself right in front of the opponent's guns?  I guess it's better for me, though, winning at cons will be that much easier if the wider playerbase is equally unimaginative.

[Mitchverr]

*sigh* Why are people so short-sighted and only see the ability to deploy ANYWHERE ON THE FRIGGIN' BOARD before the game starts, as a way to park yourself right in front of the opponent's guns?  I guess it's better for me, though, winning at cons will be that much easier if the wider playerbase is equally unimaginative.

 

Who said "right infront"? Obviously you would deploy using cover, then move into position when your turn shows up, you dont just sit in the middle of an open field lol. You deploy close enough to be a threat that makes your opponent have to do stuff to deal with it but in a position where they can be protected from being alpha'd if you didnt get turn 1.

 

This also means you are effectively blocking enemy deep strike also.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Prot]

*sigh* Why are people so short-sighted and only see the ability to deploy ANYWHERE ON THE FRIGGIN' BOARD before the game starts, as a way to park yourself right in front of the opponent's guns?  I guess it's better for me, though, winning at cons will be that much easier if the wider playerbase is equally unimaginative.

 

Well these "short sighted" people may have experience with Deep Strike that is very difficult in their meta. Deep Strike can be unreliable as a method to be aggressive. Blob-scripts deny very well. So do Orks.

 

Infiltrate is as defensive as it is offensive. Perhaps people are open to flexibility but are excited to have these new options so they are experimenting?

 

Just because other people's tactical ideas for their meta doesn't line up with yours doesn't make them short sighted. You really need to drop that attitude, or figure out a way to re word your thoughts in a less condescending manner if you want to interact with people here effectively. Trust me, I've been doing this a long time.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Prot