New Codex Incoming!

[Withershadow]

I'd leave them as is, or at most prevent them from getting orders since they are too untrained and undisciplined to be able to respond to them in any effective matter.

[MithrilForge]

oh boy, i'm holding off on spending my Fathers day GW Gift Voucher i got till after the codex index drops...my fingers are crossed that surely there has to be some new models in the next guard release...

 

Mithril

[Henimann]

I'm just hoping to see the rules for Russes corrected...having played AC in my past life (we're talking 3rd/4th eds), it hurt to come back to the game and see Russes being rated so poorly.

 

I'd also like to see platoons come back - the whole deconstructed organization the Index has us running with at the moment breaks the army in my mind.  

 

Doctrines would be great, but I don't see that happening.   Probably some sort of stratagems that correspond to the major regiments (Cadians, Steel Legion, Catachan, etc) that could also possibly be used for homebrew regiments.  I won't hold my breath.  

 

Have to agree with WarriorFish though, we'll have to wait and see. 

[Galron]

I am hoping for some common sense changes. Didnt get it with chaos leaving that book open for abuse so I doubt I will see it in this one. One conscript squad per infantry squad or one per army. Cant take orders.

 

Scions are easy to fix, they are elites unless your warlord is a Scion officer.

[Tirak]

Conscripts not taking orders makes zero sense. These aren't undisciplined masses, they're just not battle hardened infantry. They've all been through basic training, they just haven't faced actual combat. Not every Conscript platoon is a Penal Legion, or Chem Dogs, or Russian Hordes with one gun for every 5 troopers. I'm on board with returning it to platoon style, 0-1 Conscript Squad per Platoon, which in this edition would translate to 1 Conscript Squad for every 2 Infantry squads.

[MithrilForge]

OR... they could make it 1x conscript squad for every 500pts..or whatever the power level equivalent would be?...

it's not broken as it stands,it just needs to be shown some restraint...

 

Mithril

[librisrouge]

I think the best solution to conscripts is to simply give use platoons back. Force some players to take a couple of infantry squads per conscript squad and you'll stop seeing them in every Imperium list under the sun. IG lists will still take them, we generally don't mind a few more officers and guys in our lists, but marines players might balk at taking 150ish points before they get their precious fodder. It always seemed to me that conscripts alone didn't make much sense. Being rookies, you'd think a few junior officers, or at least a sergeant or two, would tag along to oversee them. I guess the local colonel makes sense though, not like he has anything better to do.

[HenricusTyranicus]

Hm....well, most of my IG lists use at least two infantry squads per conscript squad, and only one per detachment, and my opponents are still weeping about conscripts. It's still very easy to get tons and tons of guys on the board. My last list ran a 30 man squad, and a 25 man. Still had 4 infantry squads, and three vet squads. It might not be fluffy, but from a game balance perspective, something like can't take orders might be needed. And again, yeah, that's totally unfluffy. It's also unfluffy that 5 conscripts are better than one Marine. Certain concession to fluff are sometimes made for game balance.

[Withershadow]

Eh, I was treated to a tirade about "how broken guard Conscripts and Scions" are last time I played.  I was playing Krieg, who have no Conscripts or Scions. *sigh*

[Aveangelismortis]

Oh that must be fun whithershadow, I have only got dirty looks thus far. I tend to run 30 man blocks, suplemented by 10 man regular squads behind them. I just hope that GW doesnt beat us too hard with the nerf rod of command. All this talk of doctorines makes me want to pull out the EOT codex

[Shamansky]

Russian Hordes with one gun for every 5 troopers. 

Oh man this mythology. First, it was one rifle for two man. Second, it happened once in the first day of the german invasion when the garrisson of the Brest fortress was cought by surprise attack at 4 a.m.

 

I think that platoon as it was in previous edition will not return because, you know, 6-12 troops choises for Brigade detachment. I think that suggestion to take one conscript squad per two other non-conscript troops is kind of reasonable.

I wish they make comsquads and commanders a one unit again. And i really hope they will make vehicles and flyers avoid -1 BS penalty some how, because i find that heavy flamer spam that we see right now kind of stupid. Give me my multi-lasers back!

Edited September 5, 2017 by WarriorFish
Unnecessary comment removed

[HenricusTyranicus]

Eh, I was treated to a tirade about "how broken guard Conscripts and Scions" are last time I played.  I was playing Krieg, who have no Conscripts or Scions. *sigh*

I getcha there. I've been experimenting building lists without conscripts, and though I haven't played one yet, they really don't actually feel weaker.

[PliskinAJ]

People keep bringing up doctrines but in that edition of the rules if you chose to have doctrines you lost several units and you had to spend doctrine points to buy them back. I think that was a great idea for that set of rules having 1 force org to rule them all. With this edition you can take 5 force orgs if you want so you can easily get away from that. Personally I think of the detachments as my platoons now and they easially convert into heavy, recon and standard platoons now. 

 

I think the only way you can have a spam balance is if you have a unit per unit tax. If you can only have 1 conscript per 2 infantry squads is the only way I can see it. The only other way I can see it working is if the unit entry states "Astra Militarum only force" they you potentially loose out on a lot of options for guard. 

 

 

I think its irritating right now that I see 1-2 lords of war and 90+ conscripts in lists along with a half dozen casters.

[Beams]

Limit Conscripts to one per detachment

[HenricusTyranicus]

Limit Conscripts to one per detachment

I haven't had a game where I didn't do that yet. With patrol detachments, that's literally no limitation to them at all. Even with battalion detachments, it's still staggeringly easy. 

[Beams]

But there's a 3 detachment limit/guideline for 2000pts, and less for less.

[Guardsman Bob]

Eh, I was treated to a tirade about "how broken guard Conscripts and Scions" are last time I played.  I was playing Krieg, who have no Conscripts or Scions. *sigh*

I'd take bets against how the IG/AM codex will be "fixed" while broken twin-linked assault cannons will be IGNORED but that would just cost me everything.

[HenricusTyranicus]

But there's a 3 detachment limit/guideline for 2000pts, and less for less.

Yeah, but at 1500 points, even 50 conscripts is a daunting prospect. 100 is just horrifying.

[Are Verlo]

Imo the problem is not the conscripts by themselves.

If they suffered morale as normal the blobs would not see that much use over normal infantry.

 

The issue is the interaction with the commissars.

If for instance the commissar killed one model and then gave the unit +8 LD it would still help normal squads of 5-10 bodies, and it would reduce casualties, but not make them immune morale, for the conscripts.

[Tirak]

So take snipers, we're the weakest army to them. Take multi shot weapons. We are the most susceptible army to flamers and mortars and grenades and assault cannons, heavy bolters, hurricane bolters, frag missiles ect ad nauseam. Morale mitigation is required for any horde army. Nids ignore morale period while in synapse, Orcs ignore it until they're down to just a few models and even then they've got characters to mitigate it just like us. If you have problems dealing with t3 targets, the issue isn't the target, it's your list and tactics. Nerfing conscripts is the wrong response. Limiting them via platoon style building rules or in the same way Command Squads got limited make sense, but removing morale mitigation, something every other horde army has, is just a kick in the teeth of their utility so that some folks can play the game like it's 7th edition again.

[CoffeeGrunt]

They were immune to morale for cheap last edition, and Infantry Squads could blob up as well. I don't see what all the fuss is.

[Shamansky]

People just can't stand the fact that the Guard is not an easy win anymore

[Are Verlo]

So take snipers, we're the weakest army to them. Take multi shot weapons. We are the most susceptible army to flamers and mortars and grenades and assault cannons, heavy bolters, hurricane bolters, frag missiles ect ad nauseam. Morale mitigation is required for any horde army. Nids ignore morale period while in synapse, Orcs ignore it until they're down to just a few models and even then they've got characters to mitigate it just like us. If you have problems dealing with t3 targets, the issue isn't the target, it's your list and tactics. Nerfing conscripts is the wrong response. Limiting them via platoon style building rules or in the same way Command Squads got limited make sense, but removing morale mitigation, something every other horde army has, is just a kick in the teeth of their utility so that some folks can play the game like it's 7th edition again.

I fell like the response over missed the main point. I play guard too and conscrips are overshadowing all other infantry options in competivite gaming.

 

Guard can still play horde, but instead of just blobing up conscripts, a guard player can field 100+ infantry in regular squads. If a commissar gives a high ld bonus these 10 man squads will still never lose more than a single model. 10 men strong, lost 8 casualties, commissar "shoots" 1 model and the Ld is rised to 14. Even on a roll of 6 the squad wont lose more men.

(this can be influenced by negative morale modifiers from other abilities)

 

Orks and nids have large squads as apart of their identity and some of these units get bonuses when over a certain size. Conscrips are but one of many squads available to guard and players and none of these squads get anything special related to unitsize above a certain level.

An other option is to increase the point cost of conscripts. I would still field them at 5pts per model if the officer and commissar interaction remains the same.

 

There are precious few lists that easily handle 200 conscripts, scions and artillery. When backed by 3 -4 commissars you really need alot of snipers and los-blocking a single commissar is faily easy. Put him behind a basilisk, any chimera-chassis or even a low wall and the conscripts will hang around for ages.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Your +8Ld option after shooting a guy means that even if the squad loses one casualty, they're guaranteed to lose another, which seems kind of odd. It also makes the Ld a bit ridiculous tbh.

 

[Are Verlo]

That is true...it might be a bit clunky to include a clasule like: If the unit fails a morale test, remove one model and then increase ld by 8.

The goal is to make sure that the commissar still functions well for normal 10 (and 5) strong units, while reducing it´s effect for the blobs.