Crazy ideas for our codex (whishlistin´& conspiracies)

[Panzer]

We don't have to outclass them. We just need an army that can deal with them. Soften them with shooting and psychic stuff and then wipe the floor with the rest in melee. BA are not a pure melee army after all. ;)

[Pendent]

For Death Company I was thinking it would be nice to either A) Have some sort of mortal wound generation or B )Have a baked-in ability where they get to fight again when they're killed. Option B would be incredibly fluffy and feel like it could be pretty effective, albeit it does depend on losing models so it's still strictly worse than Beserkers.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Pendent

[brother_b]

For Death Company I was thinking it would be nice to either A) Have some sort of mortal wound generation or B )Have a baked-in ability where they get to fight again when they're killed. Option B would be incredibly fluffy and feel like it could be pretty effective, albeit it does depend on losing models so it's still strictly worse than Beserkers.

I'll take option C, both of the above.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

For Death Company I was thinking it would be nice to either A) Have some sort of mortal wound generation or B )Have a baked-in ability where they get to fight again when they're killed. Option B would be incredibly fluffy and feel like it could be pretty effective, albeit it does depend on losing models so it's still strictly worse than Beserkers.

In AoS its still really good. I do suggest 2 wounds though.

[Indefragable]

We don't have to outclass them. We just need an army that can deal with them. Soften them with shooting and psychic stuff and then wipe the floor with the rest in melee. BA are not a pure melee army after all. ;)

Right. We don’t need 1:1 units, so long as we can achieve similar or better results for similar or few points. Although i would really like st least one truly “best in class” unit for once. Something that ppl compare their own units to instead of the other way around.

 

I’m a broken record for the whole Encarmine Fury thing, but having every unit in our book wounding those scary units on 4’s or better would do some damage. Imagine Assault Marines becoming actual threats in melee :o

[Panzer]

 

Although i would really like st least one truly “best in class” unit for once. Something that ppl compare their own units to instead of the other way around.

I'd suggest a fast&durable melee unit for us then. So Sanguinary Guard if they get buffed a bit more. I can't think of any army that has fast and durable infantry for melee duty.

I mean TWC are a fast and durable melee unit, but they aren't infantry so they have a harder time to get cover and they are cavalry so they can't get to the second and above floor in ruins and they don't have the FLY keyword so they have to walk around obstacles and they are lacking the ability to deep strike. ^^

Edited November 8, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Indefragable]

Sanguinary Guard with native 4++, that would make me so happy.

 

Hidden Content

And S+2 melee weapons

And 3A

And 3W

And the bodyguard rule.

 

#dreams

[Karhedron]

Now that we have save modifiers again, an invulnerable save is a bit less mandatory. SG get a 4+ save anyway against stuff like power axes that used to completely negate their saves and a 5+ against lascannons, plasma, power fists etc. If you really want a 4++ there is always shield of Sanguinius.

[The Unseen]

And they already combo well with a librarian anyway, as captain/dante/chaplain buffs are wasted when a warlord priest or libby gives them full rerolls.

They don't need a 4++, they need 3A and actual relic blades.

[Frater Cornelius]

What they need is a charge bonus, because 9" is beyond unlikely and most of the time they will be sitting ducks dying en mass to overcharged Plasmas. C'mon, they are the Sanguinary Guard. With their skill, the deepstrike move should double as they charge move Oo

[Panzer]

What I'd like to see for Sanguinary Guard is pretty easy actually.

 - If we get the +1" to charge and advance ranges army-wide I'm already fine with that for Sanguinary Guard. It raises the chance to get them into melee after arriving from reserves dramatically.

 - An Invul save would be most of the time wasted and only serve to increase their cost, so that's something I definitely don't want to see.

 - Better damage output for sure. Relic Blades sounds good but a bit bland. Would be nice if they'd keep their special melee weapons but on the level of Relic Blades.

 - Defensive wise something that reduces damage would be great. Maybe halving the damage of weapons shot against them to a minimum of 1.

 

And the next things would be mainly nice to have after "fixing" them:

 - A Bodyguard rule like the Deathshroud one (not the fact that they have to intercept the shot but rather the fact that they really intercept a shot instead of turning lost wounds into mortal wound for themselves so they can still do their armor saves)

 - Being able to fall back and charge the same turn

[Brother Crimson]

A fall back and charge / advance and charge ability would pair really nicely with sanguinor and angelus Boltguns.

[Guest Triszin]

From a wolf player I'll say this.

 

I think the Blood angels only put up a charade of following t he codex, as do most chapters.

 

What I think blood angels should get is going be odd but

 

Death Company Psykers

Death Company apothecaries.

 

- Death Company Sanguins- what are these? well we have something kinda in the lore.

The Angels made of Fire in the Warp that Battle the forces of Chaos.

 

 

runs away screaming VAMPYR

[Panzer]

 

Death Company Psykers

Death Company apothecaries.

 

Just no. That really doesn't fit at all. You can't expect Marines who think they are in the battle against Horus, not knowing where or who they are or who they're looking at to act as psyker or apothecary.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

What they need is a charge bonus, because 9" is beyond unlikely and most of the time they will be sitting ducks dying en mass to overcharged Plasmas. C'mon, they are the Sanguinary Guard. With their skill, the deepstrike move should double as they charge move Oo

a 33% chance is beyond un-likely? With a potential 5+ re-roll against a 2D 1 wounds?

 

I don't mean to sound coy; but it's a smidgen better than what your text reads mate.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Panzer]

 

What they need is a charge bonus, because 9" is beyond unlikely and most of the time they will be sitting ducks dying en mass to overcharged Plasmas. C'mon, they are the Sanguinary Guard. With their skill, the deepstrike move should double as they charge move Oo

a 33% chance is beyond un-likely? With a potential 5+ re-roll against a 2D 1 wounds?

 

I don't mean to sound coy; but it's a smidgen better than what your text reads mate.

 

Actually a 28% chance without any form of rerolls for a 9+ on 2d6.

[Karhedron]

I would like something to help assaulting out of Deep Strike as that is pretty much our whole "Descent of Angels" thing. +1" on the charge is welcome but doesn't sound enough to me unless it is accompanied by a bit more for dedicated CC units.

 

I would like a Death Company that is more threatening than a day old kitten. Somewhere between Bezerkers and Wulfen would be nice.

 

Sanguinary Guard need a points drop or a rules boost (preferably both).

 

I would like a Chapter Trait that benefits the whole army without pigeon-holing us into mono-builds. I want to play Red Marines, I want to play an Angelic Host and I want to play an army consumed by the Black Rage and I want to be able stand a decent chance against other competitive lists with each flavour.

 

Am I asking for too much? Well, it is Christmas.

 

[Indefragable]

Everyone’s meta is different, but invuln are a big deal to me because opponents just look at SG and say “ok. That’s who is getting all the plasma and LC’s i have.” On the other hand, TH/SS are an actuall threat even if they never even swing at anything because they need insane #s of small arms to take down (like SG...) but also need a decent amount of las/plas/grav because of those SS. 2+ w/o an invuln is like a winter coat that is made of non-waterproof cotton all the way through. Warm if you hang around a porch, but if it actually starts raining or snowing, you’re :cuss -ed.

 

Secondly, I consider any and al psychic powers a bonus and nothing more. You can’t rely on them. ESPECIALLY in Matched play where you can only cast each one once. Again, our meats are different, but as soon as my opponents see me go for 4++ on a unit like SG...guess what they go all-in DtW on (with their 9 CP re-rolls?). And if you’re outside of DtW range with your SG...you’re using them wrong. I also go up against Black Templars a lot, so that exasperates things.

[Panzer]

Everyone’s meta is different, but invuln are a big deal to me because opponents just look at SG and say “ok. That’s who is getting all the plasma and LC’s i have.” On the other hand, TH/SS are an actuall threat even if they never even swing at anything because they need insane #s of small arms to take down (like SG...) but also need a decent amount of las/plas/grav because of those SS. 2+ w/o an invuln is like a winter coat that is made of non-waterproof cotton all the way through. Warm if you hang around a porch, but if it actually starts raining or snowing, you’re -ed.

Yeah but you're talking about a 3++ here. So far all suggestions were a 5++ or 4++ for Sanguinary Guard. That's a huge difference. With a 2+ armor a 5++ would only come into play against AP-4 (Melta and Rail weapons....something else?) and A 4++ againt AP-3 (Lascannons and Plasma) while the 3++ comes into play against AP-2 already and is a way bigger difference when getting shot at with Plasma than having only a 2+ armor.

[Pendent]

What might be fun would be a negative to-hit modifier against them for enemy units, to reflect how bright that gold armor is.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

 

What they need is a charge bonus, because 9" is beyond unlikely and most of the time they will be sitting ducks dying en mass to overcharged Plasmas. C'mon, they are the Sanguinary Guard. With their skill, the deepstrike move should double as they charge move Oo

a 33% chance is beyond un-likely? With a potential 5+ re-roll against a 2D 1 wounds?

 

I don't mean to sound coy; but it's a smidgen better than what your text reads mate.

 

Actually a 28% chance without any form of rerolls for a 9+ on 2d6.

 

 

By far not good enough when it comes down to either getting the charge or losing the unit, if you can't drop them in LOS. We are talking 75% and upward to make it work.

[Indefragable]

What might be fun would be a negative to-hit modifier against them for enemy units, to reflect how bright that gold armor is.

The power of NobleBright compels you (not to shoot us)!!!

 

sfPanzer:

Ok. So what’s wrong with flying terminators? 2+/3++ on Sanguinary Guard. I mean seriously. What’s wrong with that they would then cost more than TH/SS Termies, as they should, but they are supposed to be THE elite of the elite of the elite, so it makes sense to have them in limited numbers.

 

As i mentioned above, what’s wrong with BA having a best-in-class, “oh :cuss !!!”-reaction-inducing, reliable unit that is good in every way? It’s not OP to hand a single unit in the entire book to be proud of, escpecially if it’s points-appropriate.

[Panzer]

 

What might be fun would be a negative to-hit modifier against them for enemy units, to reflect how bright that gold armor is.

The power of NobleBright compels you (not to shoot us)!!!

 

sfPanzer:

Ok. So what’s wrong with flying terminators? 2+/3++ on Sanguinary Guard. I mean seriously. What’s wrong with that they would then cost more than TH/SS Termies, as they should, but they are supposed to be THE elite of the elite of the elite, so it makes sense to have them in limited numbers.

 

As i mentioned above, what’s wrong with BA having a best-in-class, “oh !!!”-reaction-inducing, reliable unit that is good in every way? It’s not OP to hand a single unit in the entire book to be proud of, escpecially if it’s points-appropriate.

 

Never said that there's anything wrong with it. Just that it wasn't one of the suggested things we were talking about so far.

However a 3++ without any form of physical representation would seem weird for a marine. Terminators have to carry around a shield for that. Captains have a big Iron Halo for a 4++. That means it would require an updated box (which I'd like to see anyway....I'm no fan of the current Sanguinary Guard armor) so it's rather unlikely to happen anyway.

 

Nothing is wrong with such a unit. Not sure why you think we think it's wrong. Sanguinary Guard should clearly be the best in what they do in our codex and something any opponent should want to avoid to face in melee except with other similarly scary units.

[Indefragable]

 

 

 

What might be fun would be a negative to-hit modifier against them for enemy units, to reflect how bright that gold armor is.

The power of NobleBright compels you (not to shoot us)!!!

 

sfPanzer:

Ok. So what’s wrong with flying terminators? 2+/3++ on Sanguinary Guard. I mean seriously. What’s wrong with that they would then cost more than TH/SS Termies, as they should, but they are supposed to be THE elite of the elite of the elite, so it makes sense to have them in limited numbers.

 

As i mentioned above, what’s wrong with BA having a best-in-class, “oh !!!”-reaction-inducing, reliable unit that is good in every way? It’s not OP to hand a single unit in the entire book to be proud of, escpecially if it’s points-appropriate.

Never said that there's anything wrong with it. Just that it wasn't one of the suggested things we were talking about so far.

However a 3++ without any form of physical representation would seem weird for a marine. Terminators have to carry around a shield for that. Captains have a big Iron Halo for a 4++. That means it would require an updated box (which I'd like to see anyway....I'm no fan of the current Sanguinary Guard armor) so it's rather unlikely to happen anyway.

 

Nothing is wrong with such a unit. Not sure why you think we think it's wrong. Sanguinary Guard should clearly be the best in what they do in our codex and something any opponent should want to avoid to face in melee except with other similarly scary units.

Death Masks = invuln. Already an upgrade you can purchase. Up their cost so that we can have our cake and eat it too: cheaper or pricier with invuln.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

What might be fun would be a negative to-hit modifier against them for enemy units, to reflect how bright that gold armor is.

The power of NobleBright compels you (not to shoot us)!!!

 

sfPanzer:

Ok. So what’s wrong with flying terminators? 2+/3++ on Sanguinary Guard. I mean seriously. What’s wrong with that they would then cost more than TH/SS Termies, as they should, but they are supposed to be THE elite of the elite of the elite, so it makes sense to have them in limited numbers.

 

As i mentioned above, what’s wrong with BA having a best-in-class, “oh !!!”-reaction-inducing, reliable unit that is good in every way? It’s not OP to hand a single unit in the entire book to be proud of, escpecially if it’s points-appropriate.

 

 

My only issue with 3++ is where did they get it from/fluff cohesion. For SM, the only thing that grants a 3++ is a stormshield. Iron Halos/Rosarius are 4++. 5++ is TDA.

 

I can see SG getting a 4++ by virtue of an Iron Halo. I can't see them getting a 3++ unless they get a stormshield...which is contrary to what they are both in fluff and in modeling.  I think a 4++ would be very helpful, by the way, as it would limit the effectiveness of, for example, lascannons and melta and plasma against them.

 

BUT...that having been said, if i were to consider the goodies that I really want piled on to them, I'd rather they were more reliable and ferocious on the offense.

 

EDIT: SFPanzer beat me to it re; invuln saves origins.

Edited November 9, 2017 by 9x19 Parabellum