New Eisenhorn

[DarkChaplain]

I was worried that the trilogy might be worse off in hindsight, and I was remembering it with rose-tinted glasses, but having recently finished a re-read, I actually still think it is some of the best BL has to offer and holds up incredibly well among all the current stuff. There are no big inconsistencies with the fluff, and since it isn't set in present day 40k anyway, there's no Great Rift nonsense either.

[Sothalor]

In my opinion, the Eisenhorn trilogy (or should that be quartet now, with The Magos?) hasn't aged poorly at all. Part of that comes from its nature as more-or-less self-contained pieces set away from ongoing active war fronts, part of that from its chronological place in the setting's timeline.

 

I can really only recall two "inconsistencies" with 40k as it's typically presented: one is Eisenhorn's referencing of Tyranids during the early/mid 300s of M41 when the hive fleets really start invading in the mid 700s, the other is a throwaway line about Eisenhorn making it a point to have a fallen Space Marine's name celebrated by the "Primarch of the White Consuls" in Malleus.

 

Neither of those is continuity-breaking, in my opinion. There is other material in Black Library books about Tyranids being present in the galaxy before 745 (in particular, one of the Ciaphas Cain novels deals almost entirely with the discovery of Tyranid presences on a world far earlier than they should have been there). Given the style of the novels, Eisenhorn could just as well be retroactively naming things with the benefit of later hindsight.  The thing with the Space Marine could very easily be interpreted as a symbolic rite, like a prayer to a saint for some undertaking, or even a general lack of understanding on Eisenhorn's part about the specifics of Space Marine Chapters, traditions, history, etc.

 

 

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that it stands up perfectly solidly in regards to current 40k canon. In fact, I would go so far as to say it still stands as perhaps the premier work of 40k worldbuilding, atmosphere, character, and drama. Its explorations of "civic" life in the Imperium, the grim work of the Inquisition and the toll such work takes upon the bodies, minds, and souls of its servants, the cults and secret societies churning just beneath the veneer of Imperial law and life, the off-ness of Imperial society as a far-future dystopian feudal theocracy that is recognizable to us in many aspects but with disturbing parallels and reflections.

[welshrat]

Great ill give it another go thanks

[DarkChaplain]

Done with it now.

 

If there's one thing I dislike about this fourth novel, it is that it breaks the Xenos, Malleus, Hereticus naming convention. Sure, we're through the Ordos already, but the pattern could still be followed somewhat. I'd personally propose "Diabolus", as Eisenhorn has been declared Diabolus Extremis and a LOT in here deals with how Gregor Eisenhorn copes with it. Diabolus would've been so much more snappy than The Magos, even though an atypical title fits this atypical novel well. It just really doesn't convey the kind of impact that the book itself does, and that's a shame.

 

 

 

I can really only recall two "inconsistencies" with 40k as it's typically presented: one is Eisenhorn's referencing of Tyranids during the early/mid 300s of M41 when the hive fleets really start invading in the mid 700s, the other is a throwaway line about Eisenhorn making it a point to have a fallen Space Marine's name celebrated by the "Primarch of the White Consuls" in Malleus.

 

They actually corrected the White Consuls line in the reprinting. The audiobook version just says "by the White Consuls", rather than "by the Primarch of the White Consuls".

As for the Tyranids, The Curiosity, that first Magos Drusher story, features a Hormagaunt and he recognizes it as such. While the 7xx.M41 stuff is the first official contact, there've been implications made since at least the 4th edition Tyranid Codex that they've been around in some capacity even in M35 and again in M38. So I can easily put the Tyranids mention off, considering Eisenhorn is of the Ordo Xenos and Drusher a Magos Biologis.

[Sothalor]

Done with it now.

 

If there's one thing I dislike about this fourth novel, it is that it breaks the Xenos, Malleus, Hereticus naming convention. Sure, we're through the Ordos already, but the pattern could still be followed somewhat. I'd personally propose "Diabolus", as Eisenhorn has been declared Diabolus Extremis and a LOT in here deals with how Gregor Eisenhorn copes with it. Diabolus would've been so much more snappy than The Magos, even though an atypical title fits this atypical novel well. It just really doesn't convey the kind of impact that the book itself does, and that's a shame.

 

 

Oh, that's a really nifty idea! I'm only about nine chapters into The Magos myself. Now, prior to The Definitive Casebook of Gregor Eisenhorn I'd only encountered Magos Drusher and Germaine Macks in The Gardens of Tycho, way back in the Fear the Alien anthology. I really enjoyed that story and those characters, and seeing them and Eisenhorn together is just utterly fantastic so far, like something I hadn't even known I'd wanted.

[DukeLeto69]

Am on chapter twenty four but as a single line just made me laugh out loud (something I rarely do when reading a book) I just had to comment on it here...

 

"Well, because, quite frankly," said Cherubael, "and please don't tell anyone, but right now you scare the absolute :cuss out of me."

Question for MODS - really keen to kick start discussions on what is going on here, such as who is The King in Yellow. Shall we do that in this thread or start a different one?

[DarkChaplain]

I'd honestly just start a different thread for overall Eisenhorn vs Ravenor speculation. This one gives us plenty of hints, but it still serves as a bridge to Pariah (Penitent / Pandaemonium) and discussing that topic would require diving into those. Pariah's been out long enough, but since a lot of people haven't read it yet on here, better not muddy the waters and potentially ruin the surprises.

[WarriorFish]

Question for MODS - really keen to kick start discussions on what is going on here, such as who is The King in Yellow. Shall we do that in this thread or start a different one?

Create a new topic for speculation and theories so this can focus on the new book itself :tu:

[DukeLeto69]

Cool will do. Thought so but wanted to check.

 

Finished The Magos now. Loved it. Really loved it. I do wonder how will affect someone's experience of reading Pariah if they read The Magos first as it does give a fair amount of explanation that will subsequently take away from some of the mystery you get when you first read Pariah which IMO would be a shame.

 

Overall the idea for the book felt "smaller" which makes sense when you know Dan Abnett originally envisaged The Magos as a novella. He obviously (and says as much) just kept writing but in some places it shows because it feels as though the idea is being stretched out and some of the action scenes felt a little padded to me. However, that didn't take away from my enjoyment of the story.

 

DA is often criticised for rushing his endings but on this occasion that was certainly not the case.

 

It was wonderful to finally be back amongst that story after waiting for so long for Penitent...which is now that bit closer.

[Knockagh]

Ok I’m nearly finished the book. I reread the Eisenhorn trilogy in preparation for reading this but didn’t get time to reread Ravenor (if it had been on audible I would have listened but they are not so I didn’t)

I absolutely loved the short stories and I’m sort of enjoying the Magos. Bit too much of the story going on in his mind, internal mental struggle etc. I think the book in comparison to the other inquisition books from Abnett feels claustrophobic ,(its obviously meant to) it lacks the span of the previous books. I think moving away from first person was a mistake, that’s a thing about Eisenhorns books, that makes them what they are.

It’s a good enough book and cleverly enough written, binding the shorts into the main novel, so I’m not saying it’s bad but it doesn’t feel like an Eisenhorn book, not what I expected. A little disappointed. Maybe the end will blow me away!

[DarkChaplain]

I was surprised by the third person style as well, it is a highly atypical Eisenhorn story. In a way it barely is about Eisenhorn himself. I don't really think it would've worked in first person, though. Not with where Gregor Eisenhorn is at this point. He keeps people at arm's length and has no friends left in his mind, he's just too stubborn to give up. Third person, through Drusher, makes that work well. Eisenhorn doesn't need to showcase his thoughts on everything this way, can remain in a questionable place (which this book reinforces) and be silent and grumpy, only grudgingly sharing knowledge with his team and the reader.

 

It's still a bit of an Anti-Eisenhorn book. It breaks with many traditions and turns things on their heads. It`s more of a team book, like Ravenor was, where the Inquisitor himself remains aloof and myterious for the most part. As a bridge to Pariah, it works.

[DukeLeto69]

On the third person and POV...I think if you jumped straight into The Magos (especially if you had prepped by reading the Esienhorn books) it would definitely feel jarring. I think if you had also read the Ravenor books and certainly read the short stories before starting The Magos then it would work just fine to have a different POV.

 

For me having the main character being Drusher worked ONLY because of having read the shorts before...so he was an established character. I believe part of the purpose of The Magos was as an observational piece on Eisenhorn and Drusher is an observer who notices detail

 

Personally I see this as an "Inquisitor" novel (in the DA series) more than an "Eisenhorn" novel (even though it does say Eisenhorn on the cover) and as such a change in POV works fine for me.

[DarkChaplain]

That's pretty much how I feel about it. It's less of an Eisenhorn novel than a Ravenor vs Eisenhorn prequel, with the problem being that Ravenor isn't in it outside of some shorts. In hindsight I think it is a necessary brick in the wall of the wider Inquisition cycle Abnett has come up with, Eisenhorn or not.

 

I loved that Drusher is being used as exactly that sort of outside observer on the team. He's somebody who hasn't experienced Chaos before, who hasn't taken part in any Inquisition crusade, who is, for all intents, a normal guy with a bad lot in life, and many regrets. He's untainted by that same righteousness that makes Gregor function on after all that has happened, and he's a perfect foil to examine Eisenhorn, his obsessive nature and despair. Drusher fills a role no other character could have filled, simply because he's not involved, and he can refuse and step away from things if he disapproves. He's basically irrelevant to the whole endeavour against Chaos, beyond a simple question of his expertise, and his own initiative and the way he is somehow looking for validation after a life wasted are what make him central. He's got no emotional attachment to Gregor, no history, no prior knowledge of the warp. As a result, he's in the perfect position to tell the Eisenhorn team off about their self-righteous bollocks. And it works.

[Perrin]

Loved Magos - though I do wish Drusher would have joined the team full time.

 

I have a question about the ending for anyone who has already finished it:

 

Is Eisenhorn fluent in Enuncia now? He used a whole lot of it during his fight with the Greater Daemon. Is that what the ending implied? His eyes have turned purple, which is apparently a sign of being knowledgeable in Enuncia, and the nerves in his face have been restored allowing him to smile. 

 

Or is it implying something deeper? Seeing as Pariah is setting up Eisenhorn vs Ravenor, it's hard to see how Ravenor will take Eisenhorn's eye colour change and miraculous face healing as anything other than possessed/blessed by Chaos. 

 

[Knockagh]

I finished it today. Feel the same as before. An ok book. Fairly ambivalent about it really. If it hadn’t been an Eisenhorn book I doubt I would have finished it tbh. But with it being part of the wider story I got little bits out of it so that’s what I enjoyed.

Still think not doing first person was a huge mistake.

Of Dans recent works his return to the Ghosts was infinitely better and ticked all my boxes for that series' nostalgia. This didn’t remind me of a series I know and loved because it didn’t feel like it was part of it. (Except the story.....)

I did however really enjoy getting to read the mini novels as I don’t read ebooks so that was fun and many of them are great stand alone reads.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Pariah was third person too right ?

[Manchu warlord]

I finished it a while ago, and it was amazing!!!  Drusher was a cool dude, Mister Balls-Of-Steels. 

But still, I can't help but wonder why in the cover, Eisenhorn has hair?  Unless it was him in the distant past.

 

 

Pariah was third person too right ?

No sir, it was in the First person.

[Fire Golem]

I’m ~12 chapters in, and I’m not minding the third person at all so far. Might just be because it was a little while ago that I read the trilogy and I’ve just read all the shorts which are a mix of third and first person. Also, I love Drusher as a character.

[SchultzChaos]

My biggest grip with this book was the tone. I loved most of the short stories and the overall plot, but the Magos just felt like a trippy summer blockbuster action flick (nothing wrong with that, just not my cup of tea). Dan had just too much humour in this one for me, like a Marvel-movie. It took away alot of suspense when main characters started to joke around. I wanted to like Drusher (and I did to begin with), but he became something that was in contrast nothing that I felt had any place in an Eisenhorn-story (especially when you pit him besides Eisenhorn himself). As Punishing Pete voiced, I too love Salvation's Reach and Warmaster - but this felt so different from Dan's usual mix of grounded realism, horror, humour and suspense. 

 

The Magos felt at most as a teaser for what is coming (expositioning plot threads from Pariah). 

[DukeLeto69]

@schultzchaos I can understand where you are coming from although tonally it worked for me having read the shorts first (which are a mix of tone/style). I think Dan Abnett likes to try different writing styles (to keep himself interested). The Magos was also Dan flexing his creative muscles to get ready to start writing Penitent.

 

For me the main problem with The Magos was that it definitely felt (to me) what it was...ie a novella that got expanded to a novel. The idea feels "thin" and perhaps not requiring a full length novel. To me this is evident in that some of the scenes overstay their welcome and feel padded by description. However, you definitely get the sense Dan was enjoying himself writing this!

 

No biggie for me though as still really enjoyed it and being back with those characters was great. Knowing Dan used this to gear up for Pentitent works for me!

 

Am now re-reading Pariah (third time) and loving it. Definitely a superior book to The Magos but nice to have that latter story as a lead in.

[Manchu warlord]

I absolutely love the small scene where Cherubael features "... right now, you scare the absolute out of me".

[DukeLeto69]

Finished my re-read of Pariah. Loved it. Absolutely loved it!

 

However, I have always had one problem with it...chapter 37

 

on being told by Eisenhorn that she is, to all intents and purposes, a clone, Beta Bequin just seems to accept it. It actually feels as though there is a chapter missing. The book requires a whole chapter with Beta's internal struggle with finding out she is not a "real" person.

 

She has not only found out that everything she has believed, such as thinking she was being trained by the Inquisition when in fact it was the Cognitae, should have thrown her mind into turmoil. She has been chased and taken by several different parties including traitor marines from different legions, she has found out that her best friend Judika was not who she thought AND THEN she discovers she is a clone!

 

There should have been some real dilemma and internal angst but she just rolls with it.

 

However, that is the only thing, for me, that is wrong with Pariah making it a very very good book but not quite great!

[Knockagh]

@schultzchaos I can understand where you are coming from although tonally it worked for me having read the shorts first (which are a mix of tone/style). I think Dan Abnett likes to try different writing styles (to keep himself interested). The Magos was also Dan flexing his creative muscles to get ready to start writing Penitent.

 

For me the main problem with The Magos was that it definitely felt (to me) what it was...ie a novella that got expanded to a novel. The idea feels "thin" and perhaps not requiring a full length novel. To me this is evident in that some of the scenes overstay their welcome and feel padded by description. However, you definitely get the sense Dan was enjoying himself writing this!

 

No biggie for me though as still really enjoyed it and being back with those characters was great. Knowing Dan used this to gear up for Pentitent works for me!

 

Am now re-reading Pariah (third time) and loving it. Definitely a superior book to The Magos but nice to have that latter story as a lead in.

Absolutely agree this should have been a novella. It drags quite a bit. Which I think is further compounded by the limited geography of the book. Eisenhorn is usually traveling about exploring the Imperium in the course of his duties. Much of what I enjoyed about Eisenhorn and Inquisition novels generally is the window we get into Imperial life in places we never see. Dans great at doing that and the Magos just isn’t that type of story.

[Fire Golem]

Just finished it. I actually loved it, it’s possibly my favourite (from the ones I’ve read, so the Eisenhorn trilogy and this). And I stand by my earlier love for Drusher, having finished the book.

 

Now I need to read the Ravenor trilogy and Pariah, try and get my head around the wider story!

[Manchu warlord]

As much as I loved the whole casebook, with all the short stories in it. I felt it should have omitted the short stories "Playing Patience" and "Thorn Wishes Talon". While great stories they are, they have already found publish in the Ravenor omnibus. Also, because this is the "Eisenhorn" casebook, so the stories should be Eisenhorn-connected; those two short stories are Ravenor-connected.