With an eye to the past I look try to divine the future.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think FLG comments are being took too seriously. They're telling people not to plan on doing it not that they can't, personally I think its all a reaction to the sky is falling threads about the ability to deep strike them. They also probably want GW to clarify the keyword interactions a bit better which is fair. At the end of the day they should have just kept the rule where the codex had to be out for a month first.

 

Personally I've learned from warptime + Magnus that its pretty easy to get locked into combat turn 1, but then they retreat and kill Magnus (or cripple him). So it just doesn't seem that broken to me, more so with the amount of command points you'll need to spend to do some of the combos people are bringing up.

[The Yncarne]

@Skerr: I was thinking aura or psychic power. Maybe even an artifact. Not army wide, but affects a unit.

[Archaeinox]

oh i most certainly think FLG is jumping the gun and in turn many events will blindly follow

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

@Skerr: I was thinking aura or psychic power. Maybe even an artifact. Not army wide, but affects a unit.

 

I would really like an artifact like that, I tend to think more about psychic powers when it comes to Thousand Sons but collecting strange artifacts really fits them. I want aspiring sorcerers to have their own psychic tree like warlocks badly, but there are a lot of different directions that they could go to give us flexibility and boosts so Ideals like this will make it easier to wait.

 

oh i most certainly think FLG is jumping the gun and in turn many events will blindly follow

 

In all fairness 7th was a lot more enjoyable with their format than trying to play out of the rulebook. Plus they didn't say you couldn't do it, just suggested people not plan on it until after the FAQ. Yes they gave an argument against it, but they didn't say this why we aren't allowing it. 

 

Granted I think they would have been a lot better off reminding people of how tricky it would be to amass enough command points with multiple LoWs, while needing a daemon detachment, and something that can get rid of the bubble wrap. Not to mention the spacing issues that models with these big of bases can have when trying to multi-charge.

[Raven1]

While I think FLG has a little bit bigger vision than the rest of us because they had access to things we haven't, i still feel like they are being wierd about it, plus they really just seem be singing nothing but praises about GW since 8th has come and I dont really dig that. 8th is a good edition, but far from perfect.

 

I did take a look at the ITC finalist and Astra Militarium has an unbelievable strong showing. Other armies are strong, including Chaos. In the "most balanced" edition their is certainly a clear winner.

 

As far Magnus goes, i think Guilliman is better for a couple reason one he is untargetable because of lower wounds but can come back so the lower wounds dont matter as much and the most part is that there is synergy with his army. Magnus lacks both. He is targetable and has like zero synergy.

[hhhdan]

While I think FLG has a little bit bigger vision than the rest of us because they had access to things we haven't, i still feel like they are being wierd about it, plus they really just seem be singing nothing but praises about GW since 8th has come and I dont really dig that. 8th is a good edition, but far from perfect.

 

I did take a look at the ITC finalist and Astra Militarium has an unbelievable strong showing. Other armies are strong, including Chaos. In the "most balanced" edition their is certainly a clear winner.

 

As far Magnus goes, i think Guilliman is better for a couple reason one he is untargetable because of lower wounds but can come back so the lower wounds dont matter as much and the most part is that there is synergy with his army. Magnus lacks both. He is targetable and has like zero synergy.

 

Yeah, i hope they make Magnus less of a beatstick and more of a buffer and give him actual psychic rules, not just super smite... Then i would probably take him, but as is, he is kind of boring to play in casual games and doesn't survive in tournaments :/

[Archaeinox]

I bet we can expect his weapon to not be Str 16 thats for damn sure.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

While I think FLG has a little bit bigger vision than the rest of us because they had access to things we haven't, i still feel like they are being wierd about it, plus they really just seem be singing nothing but praises about GW since 8th has come and I dont really dig that. 8th is a good edition, but far from perfect.

 

I did take a look at the ITC finalist and Astra Militarium has an unbelievable strong showing. Other armies are strong, including Chaos. In the "most balanced" edition their is certainly a clear winner.

 

As far Magnus goes, i think Guilliman is better for a couple reason one he is untargetable because of lower wounds but can come back so the lower wounds dont matter as much and the most part is that there is synergy with his army. Magnus lacks both. He is targetable and has like zero synergy.

 

The LVO starts really soon which I think puts them in a weird spot. I mean they have 512 people signed up that's pretty crazy, and right now people want to make sure of how things work because it is in two weeks. They shouldn't have let the daemon book in to be honest, a month is a good amount of time for people to calm down a bit. 

 

I can't say that I know them but their store relies on GW, so yeah I'd expect them to drink the Kool-Aid. 

 

I bet we can expect his weapon to not be Str 16 thats for damn sure.

 

I'd be surprised if it wasn't because Mortarion's is. Its not something I'd lose sleep over if they took down, I do hope they give him a secondary attack like most other LoWs have.

[hhhdan]

I bet we can expect his weapon to not be Str 16 thats for damn sure.

 

no idea why it was S16 in the first place... 

 

I would much prefer him being just incredibly good psyker and buff the army with auras than being just a beatstick that can move fast and supersmite 

 

Otherwise i'll just take him in Apocalypse games and have Ahriman leading the army :) 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

In my opinion GW wanted him and morty to be able to wound everything else on a 2. In addition all the CC variant LoWs have at least one option for str 16. I think GW wants for their to be a super high attach rate between legions and their Primarchs because they don't have the cross over that a lot of their other big kits have. 

[Memento Of Prospero]

Regardless of his other abilities, a Primarch must be formidable in combat by design. The fact that he is a psyker doesn't change that, as Guilliman is a ridiculous force multiplier without having to cast anything.

 

Unless they give him a unique spell, there's no real way of making Magnus a more clutch psyker in an army that's already full of them. The psychic phase in 8th is extremely punitive of lists that bring multiple psykers, and even more so with the upcoming nerf to smite. So ne needs to be a treat in other areas lest he just gets clogged in combat.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I personally see the design issue here.  The fact that Magnus and Mortarion are so "big and bad" in melee is actually Magnus' issue.  When you look at Magnus the Red he should be more akin to Guilliman then Angron.  He would be a force mulitplier more so then anything else. Aura buffs (Which for him honestly re-rolling 1's is pathetic in comparison to a damn chapter master having "Re roll all misses" ...... and of course mass spell slinging far more then anything Melee oriented for our Primarch. 

I did see (cannot find it anymore but I did see it) that the Warhammer community was asked regarding Magnus on Facebook and the quote was something like "Oh 3 spells? thats far to few for Magnus the Red!" or something akin to this.  More or less; Expect Magnus to do alot more once our book hits shelves, but I also fully expect magnus to cost far more to be able to do so. 

 

Honestly if they gave him to us as he is right now at 415, with a few changes, a *GOOD* warlord trait, and a bigger spell selection.....Fair enough.  I dont expect much else. 

 

[Arachnofiend]

I would happily take a HUGE nerf to Magnus's melee output in exchange for more power in the shooting and psychic phases. Magnus has zero synergy with the Thousand Sons army as it stands, he might as well be Angron as "AM SMASH" he is.

[Khannis]

I would happily take a HUGE nerf to Magnus's melee output in exchange for more power in the shooting and psychic phases. Magnus has zero synergy with the Thousand Sons army as it stands, he might as well be Angron as "AM SMASH" he is.

THIS!

[hhhdan]

Regardless of his other abilities, a Primarch must be formidable in combat by design. The fact that he is a psyker doesn't change that, as Guilliman is a ridiculous force multiplier without having to cast anything.

 

Unless they give him a unique spell, there's no real way of making Magnus a more clutch psyker in an army that's already full of them. The psychic phase in 8th is extremely punitive of lists that bring multiple psykers, and even more so with the upcoming nerf to smite. So ne needs to be a treat in other areas lest he just gets clogged in combat.

There are tons of ways to make him a better psyker without giving him a unique spell:

 

1) extra range for all spells which makes it easier to cast anything at anytime and harder to deny him

 

2) make him double the spells. Meaning that each spell can affect 2 targets or even have an AoE effect like aura abilities. That alone would make him scary as hell even if it was for just 1 spell each turn

 

3) give him a no deny of one or all spells ability.

 

4) allow him to know all the powers from a discipline like fate weaver does for daemons

 

5) give him an aura ability that buffs psychics for nearby thousand sons

 

6) give him one automatic cast per turn

 

Etc etc

[Scammel]

Why does Magnus need synergy with the Sons? He's been nothing since a detriment to them since the Heresy, willingly throwing them away to take personal revenge on the Wolves, fatally possessing them and even usurping an opportunity to undo the Rubric for his own ends. It's a wonder he has any followers left.

[Khannis]

Why does Magnus need synergy with the Sons? He's been nothing since a detriment to them since the Heresy, willingly throwing them away to take personal revenge on the Wolves, fatally possessing them and even usurping an opportunity to undo the Rubric for his own ends. It's a wonder he has any followers left.

As a fellow Prodigal Son, I sympathize with your position, brother. But Magnus is the father, and to him we owe our lives, even if he lost our eternal loyalty.

[hhhdan]

Why does Magnus need synergy with the Sons? He's been nothing since a detriment to them since the Heresy, willingly throwing them away to take personal revenge on the Wolves, fatally possessing them and even usurping an opportunity to undo the Rubric for his own ends. It's a wonder he has any followers left.

 

Well the synergy, in particular, buffs to psychic abilities, could come from him, due to his presence thinning the barrier between the warp and real space and radiating so much excess psychic energy, that the sorcerors can use it to cast powers easier.

 

Plus even before the fall of prospero, his aura was so powerful that it distorted the image of himself and those that were close to him. I imagine that this effect would become even stronger since he became a daemon primarch.

 

So in essence, his aura abilities that synergise with other unit would come not from his skills as a commander, like guilliman, but rather because he is so psychically 'charged' that it boosts those around him, who know how to use this excess power

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Why does Magnus need synergy with the Sons? He's been nothing since a detriment to them since the Heresy, willingly throwing them away to take personal revenge on the Wolves, fatally possessing them and even usurping an opportunity to undo the Rubric for his own ends. It's a wonder he has any followers left.

 

 QFT, Magnus isn't really a team player. That and to be honest I like that he isn't an auto-include and I think if he was designed with synergy mind he would be. Since Guilliman was released ever ultramarine army I've played has run him, which is cool but I like seeing different list designs.

 

My hope is more useful powers, artifacts, and for synergy to come from our exalted so that no one feels that have drop a ton of money on one kit. 

[Prot]

 

Why does Magnus need synergy with the Sons? He's been nothing since a detriment to them since the Heresy, willingly throwing them away to take personal revenge on the Wolves, fatally possessing them and even usurping an opportunity to undo the Rubric for his own ends. It's a wonder he has any followers left.

 

 

 QFT, Magnus isn't really a team player. That and to be honest I like that he isn't an auto-include and I think if he was designed with synergy mind he would be. Since Guilliman was released ever ultramarine army I've played has run him, which is cool but I like seeing different list designs.

 

My hope is more useful powers, artifacts, and for synergy to come from our exalted so that no one feels that have drop a ton of money on one kit.

If you read all the background I just can’t agree. Magnus is beleaguered with an immense amount of guilt and hurt pride. If the gathering of and destructive capacities of the Legion demonstrated towards the end of seventh don’t convince you, nothing will.

 

Is Magnus arrogant? Yes. Has he been found self serving? Yes. But there is every indication that he has come to a cold realization of what really matters.

 

You can dislike Magnus, I wouldn’t deny you that, but he is more involved in his Legion than perhaps most Chaos Primarchs. He is (in my opinion) written terribly for the game. As others have said he matches Angron much better.

 

I’m not asking for Guilliman, but I feel I have a super Tzeentch chicken boss right now and I’m just not a fan.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

Regardless of his other abilities, a Primarch must be formidable in combat by design. The fact that he is a psyker doesn't change that, as Guilliman is a ridiculous force multiplier without having to cast anything.

 

Unless they give him a unique spell, there's no real way of making Magnus a more clutch psyker in an army that's already full of them. The psychic phase in 8th is extremely punitive of lists that bring multiple psykers, and even more so with the upcoming nerf to smite. So ne needs to be a treat in other areas lest he just gets clogged in combat.

There are tons of ways to make him a better psyker without giving him a unique spell:

 

1) extra range for all spells which makes it easier to cast anything at anytime and harder to deny him

 

2) make him double the spells. Meaning that each spell can affect 2 targets or even have an AoE effect like aura abilities. That alone would make him scary as hell even if it was for just 1 spell each turn

 

3) give him a no deny of one or all spells ability.

 

4) allow him to know all the powers from a discipline like fate weaver does for daemons

 

5) give him an aura ability that buffs psychics for nearby thousand sons

 

6) give him one automatic cast per turn

 

Etc etc

Again, these suggestions will into the psychic phase trap. The more he casts, he the less the rest of the army can cast other spells. You would end up with an even more one dimensional miniature.

[hhhdan]

 

 

Regardless of his other abilities, a Primarch must be formidable in combat by design. The fact that he is a psyker doesn't change that, as Guilliman is a ridiculous force multiplier without having to cast anything.

 

Unless they give him a unique spell, there's no real way of making Magnus a more clutch psyker in an army that's already full of them. The psychic phase in 8th is extremely punitive of lists that bring multiple psykers, and even more so with the upcoming nerf to smite. So ne needs to be a treat in other areas lest he just gets clogged in combat.

There are tons of ways to make him a better psyker without giving him a unique spell:

 

1) extra range for all spells which makes it easier to cast anything at anytime and harder to deny him

 

2) make him double the spells. Meaning that each spell can affect 2 targets or even have an AoE effect like aura abilities. That alone would make him scary as hell even if it was for just 1 spell each turn

 

3) give him a no deny of one or all spells ability.

 

4) allow him to know all the powers from a discipline like fate weaver does for daemons

 

5) give him an aura ability that buffs psychics for nearby thousand sons

 

6) give him one automatic cast per turn

 

Etc etc

Again, these suggestions will into the psychic phase trap. The more he casts, he the less the rest of the army can cast other spells. You would end up with an even more one dimensional miniature.

 

 

How is any of my suggestions making him cast more? he can cast the same or even less powers, but instead magnify the scale/damage of powers is my suggestion. He would still be casting the same number of powers, but instead of being a melee beatstick, he would instead magnify the scale/range/effects/etc of the psychic powers he casts. I feel like that would make him a much more interesting unit to play, rather than the point and kill tactics now

 

He can cast the crucial powers, as it is easier for him to cast them and the rest of the army can cast the more situational ones and have an easier time doing so.

[Khalan]

Magnus is fine in CC he is an immortal Daemon Primarch, who literally uses magic to augment his physical abilities. As for Casting, I assume once we get the book he will be much better, and have more spells/options. I am hoping for access to DH and a full tzeentch discipline, really hoping we get spells like Doombolt etc back as we could use some pyschic las cannons/heavy weapons.

[HeresyBeliever]

I think Magnus is strange,

 

Yes he is a very point and kill model rules wise. If you have a rubbish physic phase then its all down hill and its 415 pts wasted.  

 

Everyone targets him first off. So you need to give them other threats to worry about. 

 

What do I want from him in the codex. 

 

First thoughts are not to change that much as I have a list built using him as he is. Should he change in points to much or get "nurfed" then I need a quick re-think. 

 

Second thoughts, which would be cool is his gaze to be a shooting attack and a load more buffing infantry physic powers. This would make you to take lots of infantry if you were using him. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think Magnus is strange,

 

Yes he is a very point and kill model rules wise. If you have a rubbish physic phase then its all down hill and its 415 pts wasted.  

 

Everyone targets him first off. So you need to give them other threats to worry about. 

 

What do I want from him in the codex. 

 

First thoughts are not to change that much as I have a list built using him as he is. Should he change in points to much or get "nurfed" then I need a quick re-think. 

 

Second thoughts, which would be cool is his gaze to be a shooting attack and a load more buffing infantry physic powers. This would make you to take lots of infantry if you were using him. 

 

I agree with this, make his auras better so theres less incentive to sling-shot him into a unit and let him wail on them, followed by a bunch of buff powers that can only be used on 1k sons. Those are good fixes.