With an eye to the past I look try to divine the future.

[Raven1]

 

That's silly. GW themselves said that after list building faction keywords and regular keywords are the same.

Yep the designer said it last fri live, saw it.

What i dont get is they let or get into the codex. How could they be cought off guard with this. It's so obvious. FLG could not know what they are talking about. We'll have to wait and see for the FAQ to drop.

[Archaeinox]

Personally I think it's dumb to be able to deep strike a primarch. I don't think they will allow it long. I mean, I'm also the guy who thinks Primarchs shouldn't be allowed in any game unless it's over 2k but my opinion doesn't matter haha

 

If they say that the crossover of stratagems to TS/CSM book units does not work, that TS book had better be sick. Not interested in making Tzeentch's REEEEEEEEEEEEEEstorm easier to cast and that's it XD

[Panzer]

Dunno I don't see a valid reason why a Daemon Primarch should be less able to burst out from the warp into realspace than other Daemons. However I agree that it's probably better for balance if it's not a thing.

[Khalan]

With how strong SM/Eldar and AM shooting can be, they can burn through a primarch or very close in 1 turn, I don't really see it as an issue. With proper bubble wrap and fall back lines and area blockers, you should be able to mitigate it if played correctly. I don't think it is any worse than the Dark reaper armies, or the 6 Leman Russ armies with 100 Guardsmen etc.

[hhhdan]

Dunno I don't see a valid reason why a Daemon Primarch should be less able to burst out from the warp into realspace than other Daemons. However I agree that it's probably better for balance if it's not a thing.

 

or glide down from above, like hive tyrants can, due to having WINGS!

[hhhdan]

With how strong SM/Eldar and AM shooting can be, they can burn through a primarch or very close in 1 turn, I don't really see it as an issue. With proper bubble wrap and fall back lines and area blockers, you should be able to mitigate it if played correctly. I don't think it is any worse than the Dark reaper armies, or the 6 Leman Russ armies with 100 Guardsmen etc.

 

I mean a full squad of 30 bloodletters can probably do more damage than a primarch and they have a much easier time charging after deepstrike (3D6 charge with +1 to charge from the icon/banner), while the primarchs have to activate warptime, or they most likely will fail the charge. And with Graia/Sisters/Black templar/Kronos stratagems, denying warptime is easier and easier (most likely necrons and tau will have a similar stratagem too).

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

With how strong SM/Eldar and AM shooting can be, they can burn through a primarch or very close in 1 turn, I don't really see it as an issue. With proper bubble wrap and fall back lines and area blockers, you should be able to mitigate it if played correctly. I don't think it is any worse than the Dark reaper armies, or the 6 Leman Russ armies with 100 Guardsmen etc.

 

I mean a full squad of 30 bloodletters can probably do more damage than a primarch and they have a much easier time charging after deepstrike (3D6 charge with +1 to charge from the icon/banner), while the primarchs have to activate warptime, or they most likely will fail the charge. And with Graia/Sisters/Black templar/Kronos stratagems, denying warptime is easier and easier (most likely necrons and tau will have a similar stratagem too).

 

 

Interesting way of looking at it. 

 

I honestly dont know how an army like ours handles a list like 100+ gaurd + 7+ leman russes. 

 

Thats a rough one. The guardsman are incredibly easy with every gun being ap-2, the best save they are getting is a 6+ and thats in cover. 

 

But then that still leaves half a dozen russes. even without sponsons thats a crazy amount of T8 (14 wounds?)  Hopefully our codex will give us a much more potent way of dealing with something like that. 

[Zodd1888]

 

That's silly. GW themselves said that after list building faction keywords and regular keywords are the same.

Yep the designer said it last fri live, saw it.

IMO I think that it was the designers intent to allow Strats on the Primarchs/Oblits/etc. They've been so solid with their Keywords, and it's not terribly unreasonable given every armies killing potential.

 

This smells like a reaction based on community feedback versus intent of rules to me.

[Khalan]

 

 

That's silly. GW themselves said that after list building faction keywords and regular keywords are the same.

Yep the designer said it last fri live, saw it.

IMO I think that it was the designers intent to allow Strats on the Primarchs/Oblits/etc. They've been so solid with their Keywords, and it's not terribly unreasonable given every armies killing potential.

 

This smells like a reaction based on community feedback versus intent of rules to me.

 

Yep, I have an ITC tournament in 30 days coming up and currently painting 30 Bloodletters lol. But if by then I can still DS my Magnus, damn right I Will.

[hhhdan]

 

 

 

 

With how strong SM/Eldar and AM shooting can be, they can burn through a primarch or very close in 1 turn, I don't really see it as an issue. With proper bubble wrap and fall back lines and area blockers, you should be able to mitigate it if played correctly. I don't think it is any worse than the Dark reaper armies, or the 6 Leman Russ armies with 100 Guardsmen etc.

I mean a full squad of 30 bloodletters can probably do more damage than a primarch and they have a much easier time charging after deepstrike (3D6 charge with +1 to charge from the icon/banner), while the primarchs have to activate warptime, or they most likely will fail the charge. And with Graia/Sisters/Black templar/Kronos stratagems, denying warptime is easier and easier (most likely necrons and tau will have a similar stratagem too).

Interesting way of looking at it.

 

I honestly dont know how an army like ours handles a list like 100+ gaurd + 7+ leman russes.

 

Thats a rough one. The guardsman are incredibly easy with every gun being ap-2, the best save they are getting is a 6+ and thats in cover.

 

But then that still leaves half a dozen russes. even without sponsons thats a crazy amount of T8 (14 wounds?) Hopefully our codex will give us a much more potent way of dealing with something like that.

Exalted flamers can help dealing with the vehicles, now that they are even better at it at solid 3 shots, S10 most of the time near a herald.

 

Also, assaulting the vehicles is a great way to prevent them from firing, so fast things like heldrakes, screamers, heralds on chariots, daemon princes, etc help a lot to atop them from firing. Just kill the guardsmen and then assault. That's the best strategy against guard (and after the conscript nerf, they became worse at defending against this.

[hhhdan]

 

 

 

 

With how strong SM/Eldar and AM shooting can be, they can burn through a primarch or very close in 1 turn, I don't really see it as an issue. With proper bubble wrap and fall back lines and area blockers, you should be able to mitigate it if played correctly. I don't think it is any worse than the Dark reaper armies, or the 6 Leman Russ armies with 100 Guardsmen etc.

I mean a full squad of 30 bloodletters can probably do more damage than a primarch and they have a much easier time charging after deepstrike (3D6 charge with +1 to charge from the icon/banner), while the primarchs have to activate warptime, or they most likely will fail the charge. And with Graia/Sisters/Black templar/Kronos stratagems, denying warptime is easier and easier (most likely necrons and tau will have a similar stratagem too).

Interesting way of looking at it.

 

I honestly dont know how an army like ours handles a list like 100+ gaurd + 7+ leman russes.

 

Thats a rough one. The guardsman are incredibly easy with every gun being ap-2, the best save they are getting is a 6+ and thats in cover.

 

But then that still leaves half a dozen russes. even without sponsons thats a crazy amount of T8 (14 wounds?) Hopefully our codex will give us a much more potent way of dealing with something like that.

Also regarding the deepstriking primarchs, the more I think about it, the more I feel like I wouldn't field them even if they would be allowed to deep strike. And will instead field a one-two punch of horrors and bloodletters. (At least for a pure daemon army. When Tsons codex comes out, I'll probably stick to mono tzeentch).

 

Horrors deepstrike, clear the way, pop the +1 invul stratagem in the opponents turn, then next turn letters come in and assault everything

[BoomWolf]

Yea, the "deepstrike primearchs will ruin everything" is really silly.

 

The primes are expensive, and honestly even if they DS-they still need support for the turn after or they will easily get overwhelmed.

 

And we all learned the last few editions-you can do a null deploy, or a mostly full deploy-trying to DS too much stuff with a minimal first turn board presence is the easy way to get yourself tabled.

[hhhdan]

Yea, the "deepstrike primearchs will ruin everything" is really silly.

 

The primes are expensive, and honestly even if they DS-they still need support for the turn after or they will easily get overwhelmed.

 

And we all learned the last few editions-you can do a null deploy, or a mostly full deploy-trying to DS too much stuff with a minimal first turn board presence is the easy way to get yourself tabled.

 

not really, my friends played a grey knight+guard and grey knight+raptors armies to great effect. The latter only deployed inquisition acolytes on the table and the rest (multiple strike squads, draigo, captain, multiple vanguard veterans, multiple lascannon devastator squads and lias issodon) all deep struck.

 

I, myself, have recently assembled a mostly deepstriking army of blood angels and dark angels (death company, sanguinary guard and plasma inceptors all deepstrike).

 

The key with these armies is to have a mix of deep striking long range shooting, chaff clearing and melee units, so that the opponent can't defend against everything.

 

With daemons i think i will utilise summoning much more now, as it allows a late game deep strike and also the ability to choose what to summon. heralds, Pink horrors, exalted flamers, flamers and even exalted chariot are all good options now for summoning, so this will make the list much more adaptable.

[Zodd1888]

If we got access to Dark Hereticus, as well as Thousand Sons, with 6 powers each and something unique representing each cult in aura or power we'd have tremendous variety. Khennati Goats, with Corvidae Rubric backline, all around their own Exalted providing their cults bonus. That would provide a feeling of variety with the limited Rubric option, and provide variety in goats.

[Khalan]

I'll be salty if we don't get at least as many total powers as Eldar, the way their spells work is great.

[Archaeinox]

I'll be salty if we don't get at least as many total powers as Eldar, the way their spells work is great.

 

Considering the fact that Ahriman always gets the +1 bonus to cast and deny AND can deny one additional power over Eldrad, I don't think your scenario is too much of a stretch.

 

Regarding whether or not we keep Dark Hereticus as an option, I fully expect it to hinge completely on if we have a teleport/infiltrate ability.

 

The fact that Eldar/harlies/DE have Webway shenanigans AND the fact that Thousand Sons are featured in tons and tons of recent fluff on Webway travel tells me that this is a heavy possibility.

 

So, in the end, if we have spells and/or ways to reposition our stuff, I can see us losing Dark Hereticus completely because we wouldnt need a movement ability. If that happens, I hope that our discipline(s) is sick.

[Skerr]

The way FLG kinded worded it (best source is somewhere on their post or forum) seemed to indicate, imo, that they were going with community feedback fearful of this perhaps knowing GWs FAQ will clarify to allow it and let GW deal with it on their boards and not at the event.

[Zodd1888]

Either way, I hope for 2 disciplines or 1 and auras for each cult.

[Jivanmukta]

As someone currently still assembling and painting models to get into the game what are our biggest issues?

 

Anti-Tank/Swarm and a severe lack of auras?

[Raven1]

As someone currently still assembling and painting models to get into the game what are our biggest issues?

 

Anti-Tank/Swarm and a severe lack of auras?

Anti-tank is certainly one, at least for me, but than again I think the best options are either Helbrutes or Predators and we certainly have access to that.

 

We can kill infantry in droves with our AP-2 weapons.

 

For me in my games its keeping up with the variety of strategems, warlord traits, or chapter traits etc. Over the course of the game the free re-rolls or little extras add up and by turn 3 generally I'm facing fairly up hill battle.

 

That being said "All is Dust" tends to aggravate my opponents as they either just don't do that much damage to my Rubrics or they have to focus the bigger guns they would rather have shooting something else.

 

I have found Tzaangors are good at tying up units, so I usually try to Warptime them up the board with a demon prince with wings.

 

As far as auras go outside the demonprince we don't have access to the "to-hit" re-roll and we don't have access to wound re-roll aura like from the exalted chapion.

 

The re-roll invulnerable save of 1, i dont really care for. It just doesn't come into effect that much.

 

Lastly exalted sorcerers and Ahriman dont benefit from their auras if they are on a disk because they are cavalry not infantry...like for real so dumb.

[Archaeinox]

re-roll invuls of 1 is garbage plain and simple. absolute rubbish unless its Ahriman on foot and his 3++ is up.

[Skerr]

IMO its why Harlies went from a 5++ to a 4++. They were paper dolls and the revenge formation allowing to reroll 1s was just totally ineffective.

[Prot]

Personally I think it's dumb to be able to deep strike a primarch. I don't think they will allow it long. I mean, I'm also the guy who thinks Primarchs shouldn't be allowed in any game unless it's over 2k but my opinion doesn't matter haha

 

If they say that the crossover of stratagems to TS/CSM book units does not work, that TS book had better be sick. Not interested in making Tzeentch's REEEEEEEEEEEEEEstorm easier to cast and that's it XD

 

My experience has been that in an 'aware' meta that a  Daemon Primarch lasts about 1 turn if the Chaos player goes second.

 

(Guilliman's true magic is being un-targetable, and then resurrecting. If he could be shot on Turn 1, then I think the Azrael gunline would take over as the favourite for marines.)

 

Right now the Astra shooty lists have changed the game more than any one codex I've experienced since 8th. I could go into depth about what I've experienced, and the multiple layers of issues that codex has brought up, but all you have to do is see who is the top 3 finishing army in 2017 at all ITC and competitive events. (It's particularly scary when you realize they never had a codex for the full year.)

 

When I put a 460 point model on the table, and it's wiped with ease before I got to touch it..... there's not a lot that is more disheartening than that in a game.

 

Some codexes are already moot.. .in the 'most balanced edition of the game ever'. (They had to know that would bite them in the butt, wouldn't they?)

 

So the fact I'm going to have about... 1-2 months of catching some players off guard because I can Deepstrike a Primarch.... I'll take it. 

 

And I guarantee you a counter mechanism is already in the works. Something like Tau will have some heinous interceptor ability, or something like that. This deep striking thing might make me take Daemon Primarchs. Otherwise 100% honest, I would not go to a tournament with one right now. I would much rather deep strike a massive squad of Bloodletters with the new rules. (hordish stuff is still too good in 8th)

 

If I was to change anything... it would be to make the Daemon Primarchs function much better with their Astartes armies. I would make it that going off rogue with the Daemon Primarch would not always be the auto-decision it is right now. 

[The Yncarne]

Would simply rerolling inv saves be that game breaking if you have a 5++? I’m truly skeptical that it is.

 

On the exalted flamer thread, what’s the difference model wise between this and a normal flamer? Is it just physically larger?

[Skerr]

It is not game changing. When i played the revenge formation it almost never netted a positive result. Looked promisimg on paper though inneffective on the tabletop.

 

Do you mean army wide rule or aura?