Nym Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Cast prescience from a termie sorcerer to hit on 2+, add the bonus to invuln save and the minus to hit for good measure, and use Veterans of the Long War, and it'll get pretty mean pretty fast. Now do the them to Tzaangor Skyfires (or even regular Tzaangors) and it'll get even meaner. Way meaner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I am surprised to hear folks not liking replacing reroll 1s to hit over the invlun rr. I am sure it helped on Maggie and any other units with a lower invuln though on stock troops i never saw the benefit. It sounds like a lot of folks rubs and sots benefited from it though mine never seem to. That is how random probability works, like It might have come in at a clutch time for some though. Kind of like i am hoping Firestorm will, ha! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Its mostly because we could have had both before with a prince-exalted combo, and now we can't. Also, the new aura is useless for flamer rubric, who are one of the units you want near a caster to warptime forward to begin with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I don't think it's an issue of whether we're happy or not with the aura change, it's the totality of the aura change. RR1's to hit is awesome. We have Exalteds, Ahriman, Daemon Princes, and Magnus as HQ's that all have the same aura. Looking at nearly any other marine army they have more than 1 aura; I'm not including Magnus as the aura only effects perils and doesn't apply army wide buffs like most others. Why couldn't Exalted remain RR1's for saves and DP be to hit as is? Ahriman could have done both for his unique train, and Magnus could have been adjusted however. Bottom line is there are some weird design choices with PA and TS as a whole. Edit: Boomwolf had it lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Cast prescience from a termie sorcerer to hit on 2+, add the bonus to invuln save and the minus to hit for good measure, and use Veterans of the Long War, and it'll get pretty mean pretty fast. Now do the them to Tzaangor Skyfires (or even regular Tzaangors) and it'll get even meaner. Way meaner. Are the skyfires infantry, and as such can deep strike, or do they have to stand around being shot at before the buffs go up? Genuinely curious. They have good movement, but are still quite fragile when moving through the battlefield. DSing helps, and this is restricted in a way which rewards big units, just like all the other buffs we have available. Regular tzaangors struggle with being melee units. Which leaves them vulnerable to other assaulters, overwatch, artillery, movement denying spells and stratagems ++. I've had matches between me and my Dragoon-heavy admech versus friends of mine using tons of khorne berserkers. It always comes down to who strikes first. I can also deny your warptime, counterdeploy, use brimstone horror or cultist chaff for screening etc... Shooting is just more reliable, and deep striking shooting units are simply incredibly reliable. A swarm of tzaangors, with or without discs, just seem much more likely to be blown off the table before they get to do much, unless you spam them. And then you'll be forced to pick which units to buff, which gives the opponent the opportunity to focus fire the squads who don't have their defense buffs up and running. So again I think your math is misleading. Counting value per point doesn't show the entire picture because you won't be able to buff more than X amount of tzaangors, you don't take into account the added value you get for delivery systems etc. No matter which unit we're looking at, we'd want a big enough squad to maximize utility, and we'd like to reliably activate their damage output. Rubricae in large squads seem to be better at this than tzaangors. Still, this is simply speculation on my end. We'll reconvene when we've played a few matches and figured out what works. Until then, I think I'll avoid this subforum. I've read too many negative posts and it's starting to rub off on me - and it would simply be dumb of me to get riled up because of a disagreement on codex viability. Hope you all have a lot of fun and fulfilling matches and discussions :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Skyfires are not infantry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I don't think it's an issue of whether we're happy or not with the aura change, it's the totality of the aura change. RR1's to hit is awesome. We have Exalteds, Ahriman, Daemon Princes, and Magnus as HQ's that all have the same aura. Looking at nearly any other marine army they have more than 1 aura; I'm not including Magnus as the aura only effects perils and doesn't apply army wide buffs like most others. Why couldn't Exalted remain RR1's for saves and DP be to hit as is? Ahriman could have done both for his unique train, and Magnus could have been adjusted however. Bottom line is there are some weird design choices with PA and TS as a whole. Edit: Boomwolf had it lol There is something to be said for player agency i do agree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Eddies 1k sons article on rubrics is up on WH comm page. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Brutal. Basically confirmed the 10 man for Soul Reaper, called out the flamers as expensive and 8", and went onto saying don't take a Rhino if you can Deep Strike. Summary of article: Rubric Marines are fluffy and expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The 10 man for the soul reaper can still change, Eddie doesn't write the rules. Once the FAQ comes out we will see whats what. hopefully. Being forced to take 10 of expensive infantry isn't fun. Even a "9 for a soul reaper" would be a huge bonus as I can squeeze a sorcerer into an LR or Rhino. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 I wouldnt say he confirmed 10 man for one Soulreaper. It's in the codex we know that. It can FAQ'd though and since it was that way in the CSM codex and multiple power armor entries and can have 1 in 5, i dont see way rubrics should/would be any different. As far as warpflamers go, i dont know why I should take them if I can just summon flamers, I'll have to do a breakdown of points per wound but I currently i think flamers would be the way to go. Eddie is also right in that TS are built to be tricksy psykers. I can dig it. It's not your run of the mill power armor army. Though I fill a power codex name would have been Thralls of Tzeentch rather than codex: thousand sons. It's definitely more of a daemonkin style than a proper legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It was asked about in the comments of the article (why csm gets SRC at 5 man). Team is sending feedback up the chain. I am sure they have heard plenty on it by now, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 It was asked about in the comments of the article (why csm gets SRC at 5 man). Team is sending feedback up the chain. I am sure they have heard plenty on it by now, lol. They are going to keep hearing it. I'm going to send emails and hit them up Facebook about things I think need to be FAQ'd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hi guys Is there any new info on Deamon engines? I wonder if Helldrakes and Forgefiends are worth taking with the codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Nothing new to my knowledge. I don't think we'll see anything change, unfortunately. Edit: Except Mutalith on Maulerfiend buffs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hi guys Is there any new info on Deamon engines? I wonder if Helldrakes and Forgefiends are worth taking with the codex? Considering how much we have as a faction id say daemon engines will work better with us then anyone else. Daemon buffs from our innate casting, any buffs from other various daemons, our strategems, and our own buffs. It stacks pretty well IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Hi guys Is there any new info on Deamon engines? I wonder if Helldrakes and Forgefiends are worth taking with the codex? Considering how much we have as a faction id say daemon engines will work better with us then anyone else. Daemon buffs from our innate casting, any buffs from other various daemons, our strategems, and our own buffs. It stacks pretty well IMO. Our Daemon Prince or Magnus casting Flickering Flames on either the Forgefiend or Heldrake helps them pass "break points" (getting Hades to wound Toughness 8 on 3's and Baleflamer to wound Toughness 7 or 8 on 4's). Also makes an Ectoplasma head a little more worth it on the Fiend. Having a Herald on a disc nearby (if you have Daemon Allies) can also get the Drake to Str 8, which is a big break point in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnofiend Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Unlike Death Guard we also got Daemonforge copy-pasted over to our codex. Gives the dinobots a lot more teeth than they would otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Anyone plan on using the Spell-swap strategem to get Daemon spells on our Sorcerers? RAW as of this moment they may pick from all three lores when paying the CP to swap; may be worth considering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Anyone plan on using the Spell-swap strategem to get Daemon spells on our Sorcerers? RAW as of this moment they may pick from all three lores when paying the CP to swap; may be worth considering. For sure if it's needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Anyone plan on using the Spell-swap strategem to get Daemon spells on our Sorcerers? RAW as of this moment they may pick from all three lores when paying the CP to swap; may be worth considering. For sure if it's needed. Dare I say we are a tricksy codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 My plan is to use it to catch opponents off guard, especially swapping in an unsuspecting warp time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Totally could be justified if your on disc? Predicting it will get FAQed but if not, big time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I'm considering using Dark Matter Crystal to fling the Warpflamer Squad up and then popping 1CP to give the Aspiring Sorcerer Warptime. This would allow them to operate without requiring an HQ to babysit them (if you want to do other things on the table with your HQs) Best part about this is that you dont have to commit to it in the list obviously, since its chosen before the battle starts with relics and who is going into Webway etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnofiend Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I feel like with the Soulreaper nerf is there's a way to run Rubrics at all it's gonna be with Warpflamers. Delivery is going to be a problem though; you REALLY don't want that warptime to get denied. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/42/#findComment-4997968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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